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An Objectivist Critique Of The Incredible Hulk

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Objectivist Themes of the Incredible Hulk

by Nathan Shapiro

First off, let me start by saying that the Hulk, with 40+ years of written history by numerous authors, has gone through various changes through the years. There have been dumb Hulks, intelligent Hulks, green-skinned Hulks and even gray-skinned Hulks. In the first 3 issues alone, while the character was still being developed, the Hulk was a malevolent character that sometimes wanted to conquer the world. If you want to find out more about the changes the Hulk has gone through, see this pageat my website. If you want to browse around further, just click the link at the top-right of the page to restore the frames. Throughout my essay I have also added links to some pages I think might be useful. Due to the variations in the Hulk's character, I'm distilling this discussion down to the essentials of the character. For those unfamiliar with it, here is the basic gist of the Hulk Concept:

Dr. Bruce Banner, during the initial test of his awesome nuclear weapon the "gamma bomb", rushes out to save a foolish teenager who has parked his jalopy right in the middle of the test site. After saving the boy by throwing him into a protective trench, Bruce Banner is bathed in the gamma rays of his own invention. The gamma rays mutate him, and as a result Bruce Banner finds himself transforming into a less intelligent "monster" in times of stress (or, in some cases, at nightfall). Being "The Hulk" leads to terrible suffering for Bruce Banner, perpetual unhappiness and finding himself hunted and hounded by the US government and super villains.

The Hulk was created by Stan Lee & Jack Kirby, but artist Steve Ditko, an objectivist himself, contributed greatly to later stories. Ditko "inked" issue #2, which means he tightened the artwork of Jack Kirby. He completely drew #5, and then drew the Hulk regularly in his second series "Tales to Astonish" for quite some time. In the early days of Marvel Comics, it was not unusual for the entire plot of a story to be made up by the artist (such as Ditko) and to have the writer (stan Lee) insert text later to make a cohesive story. Lee and Ditko had oppossing political viewpoints (Ditko an objectivist, especially later in life, and Lee a moderate liberal).

Let me begin by looking at the events that led up to Bruce Banner being exposed to the gamma rays. Had Rick Jones, the teenager, not managed to sneak onto the military base during the bomb's test, Bruce Banner would never have rushed out to save him. What, exactly, caused young Jones to do something so irrational as breaking into a military base? In his own words: "The kids bet me I wouldn't have nerve enough to sneak past those guards..." There we have it! Rick Jones did not do something out of his own rational interests, but because others, using peer-pressure, coerced him into acting against his own interests in order to remain part of the group.

Now, Bruce Banner did not have to rush out to save Rick Jones. Since he was on a military base, he could have simply ordered someone else to do it. Had he followed his own rational self-interest, looked out for preserving his own existence ahead of others, he would never have become the Hulk. What is ironic is that Bruce Banner is a scientist, a supposed genius, yet he does such a bone-headed thing (as we objectivists would tell him). This reflects the idea that the "geniuses" of our society, found in the colleges and universities, are undermining their own brilliance by attacking reason, or at the very least not relying on it as their foundation.

Banner's lack of rational self-interest comes into even greater focus once he reaches Rick Jones. He grabs Jones and races with him towards the protective trench. When they arrive, rather than leaping into the trench, Bruce Banner shoves Rick Jones in first, saying, "There! You're safe!" Only after Rick Jones is in the trench does he prepare to jump in, but it is too late. The bomb goes off and Banner is exposed to the gamma rays. Is there no clearer example of the dangers of altruism? Bruce Banner sacrificed his own life in order to put the interests of someone else, someone who was in danger due to his own irrational behavior, ahead of his own and the result was a life of suffering.

I want to mention why the bomb went off to begin with. Bruce Banner had told his co-worker, Igor, to halt the countdown. However, Igor was a soviet spy who wanted to kill Banner so that he could steal the secrets of his gamma ray formula. This gels nicely with the reality that the communist states, unable to produce themselves, are reduced to stealing the efforts of free nations in order to survive. In fact, communists provide the source of many of the Hulk's stories over the years, especially in the beginning. In the second story in issue #1, the Hulk faces a deformed, communist scientist who, upon hearing about the Hulk, wishes to "slay him, or bring him back as my prisoner, as a symbol of my might." The sentiment of the communist scientist, no longer a man (he is a deformed creature named The Gargoyle), reveals the immense importance of physical force and oppression in a society where productive genius is not valued. In issue #4, a group of Soviet soldiers attempt to capture the Hulk, to exploit the secrets of his biology in order to create an army of creatures to fight the west. Again, their success does not lie in their ability to create anything, but their desire to sacrifice an individual (Hulk) for the greater "good"(the spread of communism).

(As a very brief aside, in a story written 30 years later, Igor still doesn't learn the value of individual effort. When the Hulk, sharing Bruce Banner's mind in this form, confronts Igor, blaming Igor for turning him into the Hulk, Igor finally cracks up. Igor claims, despite all of Bruce Banner's personal suffering, that the Hulk has done a lot of good in the world and that he should deserve some degree of credit for it!)

Clearly, the Hulk can be viewed as an individual, struggling against the collectivists in the world who want to use him for their own purposes. In Tales to Astonish #64 (the Hulk's second series after his first was cancelled), drawn by objectivist Steve Ditko, Bruce Banner is actually trapped behind the iron curtain and placed in a forced labor camp. When Banner says they will never force him to work for their secret science projects, the soviet general in charge of the camp, tells Banner: "We are not tyrants! We do not force anyone! But, of course, if you wish to be fed...!" The important thing to note is, that despite claiming not to use the overt appearance of force (and it is just a baseless claim, we later see them brutally beat down other prisoners), there are other methods of physical force that are used to control an individual. By removing a person's freedom to voluntarily choose where to work, who to work for and doing what, it leaves them little choice but to do the government's bidding in order to obtain food.

Bruce Banner then witnesses an attempted revolt by another captured scientist, who proclaims the value of death over slavery. Bruce Banner, eventually turning into the Hulk, helps topple the leaders of the gulag. In the course of their uprising, his fellow prisoner ends up dying in order to save the Hulk's life by lunging in front of a ray gun blast declaring "You'll never defeat free men! Never! Never!" However, this death is not considered a sacrifice by the scientist because he realizes that the Hulk is the only one capable of continuing the fight for freedom. The dying scientist, in fact, thanks Hulk because with his help he will be able to die a free man and not a slave. The scientist made a rational decision based on his values. Freedom was more valuable than slavery, dying free was more valuable than living as a slave.

I want to switch gears back to the Hulk's earliest tales to further show how that Hulk is an individual fighting against a world that wishes to control him and make him a slave. After the Gamma Bomb, Bruce Banner is sealed in a room with Rick Jones. When night falls and Bruce Banner first becomes the Hulk, the Hulk's first question is: "Where am I? Why am I locked in here? I want to get out!" And the Hulk smashes through a brick wall like cardboard. The Hulk's overwhelming desire is not for destruction, but for freedom. When the Gargoyle attempts to use a pellet gun that saps an individuals will, the Hulk proudly shouts "The Hulk is no man's slave!" And when the Hulk barges in on Igor trying to find Banner's hidden gamma ray formula, Igor shoots the Hulk. Hulk grabs the gun and crushes it, asking "So! This is what the puny humans fear!" The gun, and the force it represents, has been used (either by criminals, OR governments) to control men. However, the Hulk is a creature that cannot be hurt by the threat of force, who does not fear looking into a barrel of a gun. He has the power to break the control of force over his life to be independent. Perhaps that is why the military, and other authorities, lash out at him. He is something they cannot control.

It could be argued that the Hulk's key to freedom is his overwhelming reliance on force, rather than reason. The Hulk primarily deals with others through physical violence, rather than discussion, which is not objectivism but anarchy. This is, to a degree, true. However, you have to overlook an important facet of the Hulk's character over the years in order to completely argue this position: The Hulk primarily uses force in a retaliatory fashion. Unlike other superheroes, the Hulk does not put on a cape and run around fighting bad guys (or as Ayn Rand put it in Ethics of Emergencies: "[spending] his life sailing the seven seas in search of shipwreck victims to save"). The Hulk, typically, shows up only after Bruce Banner has been provoked into becoming the Hulk, and he only fights those who attack him (occasionally, there is collateral damage, but as Ayn Rand noted the blame for such incidents is placed on those who initiate the use of force). The Hulk's mantra over the years was: "leave Hulk alone!" Essentially, Hulk just wanted the right to his own life, which others were determined to deny him.

I've touched on the Hulk's relationship with reason, which is arguably the least objectivist trait of the character. When Bruce Banner becomes the Hulk, it is usually coupled with some decrease in intelligence. The green, Savage Hulk is often depicted as having a child-like level of intelligence, whereas the crafty Gray Hulk actually has a normal intelligence. The Hulk often found his mind muddled and confused (particularly the less intelligent versions), making it difficult for him to make informed decisions or to understand why something was happening to him.

The main question is, does the decrease in intelligence from Banner to the Hulk necessarily mean a decrease in reason? After all, as mentioned earlier, Bruce Banner was a brilliant scientist but made several miserable decisions by not using his reason and pursuing his rational self interest. In contrast, even the dumbest Hulks seem to know what they want in order to achieve happiness and act in the way they best see fit to pursue those goals.

To jump ahead about 25 years, in the mid-80's there was a story line where the crafty Gray Hulk became dominant and Bruce Banner disappeared for several months. During this period, the Hulk established a life for himself as an enforcer in Las Vegas. He had a job, a home and a girlfriend and was happy by pursuing his own self interest. All of which demonstrates that the Hulk (at least this version) is very capable, when given the chance, to pursue a rational, self-interested course in life.

The Hulk's new life in Vegas was ultimately destroyed, in part, by the resurfacing of the Banner personality. Bruce Banner did not want the life the Hulk established, he wanted to return to his own wife and pursue his own interests. This demonstrates the truth of objectivism through a negative example (meaning, an anti-objectivist trait in the character revealing to the audience the value of objectivism). The Hulk, or Bruce Banner, cannot pursue their own values because they are sacrificial animals. It's not the intent of Banner or the Hulk to be altruistic, but they are forced, by their biological situation, to give up their values when the other takes over their single body. Neither of them can be happy because neither of them are free to pursue their own interests and must constantly live under the threat that anything they work to achieve can be taken away or destroyed by the other. This is no different than how, in a dictatorship, a person cannot use reason and pursue happiness because the threat of force against their individual rights makes it impossible for them to create any sort of long-term plans to secure happiness.

This ultimately reveals an interesting dichotomy in the Hulk's character: He represents both the individual, struggling against the collectivists to pursue his own rational self interests as well as being a creature whose very nature prevents him from using reason in the pursuit of happiness.

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I know posting this must reveal me to be quite a geek, but it really was an interesting topic I wanted to share with some people that I share a similar philosophy with. Feel free to critique, or laugh, or whatever at it. B)

Edited by Captain Nate
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I must admit that before now I knew little about the Hulk except that his movie was not worth the money I paid to get in :D .

As to your question about intelligence and reason I'm pretty sure that their reliance on each other is minimal at most. A look at many of todays intellectuals will show that intelligence definitely doesn't bring reason to their claims that nothing is real. While I'm sure that some minimal level of intelligence is required reason, or think at all for that matter, I think that anyone capable of independent thought is capable of reason. While the Hulk probably couldn't describe his philosophy elloquently he did know that he had certain rights, and that certain things were wrong.

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I must admit that before now I knew little about the Hulk except that his movie was not worth the money I paid to get in  :D .

The movie wasn't ALL bad (some great action and effects), but, among other reasons, the story strayed too much from the source material. Though, this scene has certain imagery that is somewhat related to my post:

post-1634-1118757793_thumb.jpg

:) And I'm glad I was able to inform you a little bit about the character. Most people disregard comic books and the stories within them, but there is a rich story involved in many of them.

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Excellent post. :)

Even as a very long time comic reader, mainly a Marvel fan, (a small Captain America statue is resting on my computer monitor as I type B) ) I never saw Hulk in these terms before. I have examined characters like Spiderman (just added a post on a thread about the movie), Fantastic Four and X-Men Vs. The Brotherhood, but Hulk always seemed too simple to me. In my defense the grey intelligent hulk occurred during one of my non-comic periods.

Most people disregard comic books and the stories within them, but there is a rich story involved in many of them.

Not me (I mean I do not disregard them). I think Rand would describe modern comics as "Romanticism with an apology" as she did other fantasy stories, but any story based on morals is a good story.

I would like to see your take on The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen also if you have read them. If you haven’t you should. I think you would like both.

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Excellent post.  :thumbsup:

Thanks

Even as a very long time comic reader, mainly a Marvel fan, (a small Captain America statue is resting on my computer monitor as I type  B) ) I never saw Hulk in these terms before.  I have examined characters like Spiderman (just added a post on a thread about the movie), Fantastic Four and X-Men Vs. The Brotherhood, but Hulk always seemed too simple to me.  In my defense the grey intelligent hulk occurred during one of my non-comic periods. 

Not me (I mean I do not disregard them).

I really like both the intelligent and gray Hulks. I think that the character is a lot deeper than people give him credit for just because he speaks in small words.

The current version of the Hulk is green AND intelligent, and is quite enjoyable if you are still reading comics, I suggest you try it. The current writer, Peter David, described his look at the Hulk like this:

"The Hulk is a microcosm of America today," continued David of why so many other people are interested in the character. "America is split in two. The conservatives sees liberals as intellectual weaklings. And the liberals see the conservatives as bullying monsters. You think Captain America epitomizes America today? Nonsense. It's Bruce Banner and the Hulk."

Such a perspective on the character, I think, is interesting!

I would like to see your take on The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen also if you have read them.  If you haven’t you should.  I think you would like both.

I haven't read those yet. I bought 3/4th of the Dark Knight Returns 2, and wasn't very impressed but I have been told that I shouldn't judge the original based on that.

Hey, I'd like to share with you something you might find interesting, if you want to drop me an e-mail at [email protected], that'd be great.

EDIT: (Does anybody know why my quotation code won't work?)

>>>I fixed it, Nate, you had a superfluous end quote in there.--Jennifer<<<

Edited by JMeganSnow
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"I want to switch gears back to the Hulk's earliest tales to further show how that Hulk is an individual fighting against a world that wishes to control him and make him a slave. After the Gamma Bomb, Bruce Banner is sealed in a room with Rick Jones. When night falls and Bruce Banner first becomes the Hulk, the Hulk's first question is: "Where am I? Why am I locked in here? I want to get out!" And the Hulk smashes through a brick wall like cardboard. The Hulk's overwhelming desire is not for destruction, but for freedom. When the Gargoyle attempts to use a pellet gun that saps an individuals will, the Hulk proudly shouts "The Hulk is no man's slave!" And when the Hulk barges in on Igor trying to find Banner's hidden gamma ray formula, Igor shoots the Hulk. Hulk grabs the gun and crushes it, asking "So! This is what the puny humans fear!" The gun, and the force it represents, has been used (either by criminals, OR governments) to control men. However, the Hulk is a creature that cannot be hurt by the threat of force, who does not fear looking into a barrel of a gun. He has the power to break the control of force over his life to be independent. Perhaps that is why the military, and other authorities, lash out at him. He is something they cannot control." -Nate Shapiro

In enjoying a story such as Jekyl/Hyde mutations, one must take for granted the belief that men can mutate themselves. One can look at the effects of high levels of radiation on people and their limbs, and one will be left satisfied to continue on with the story.

The only problem with believing in this fictional creature is the fact that his transformation is instantaneous and occurs without his will. But using my imagination's fantasy I will be satisfied with this puzzle and continue forward.

It seems logical that if the mutation occured to the scientist by accident, then he would have trouble accepting his new form, the monster. He would even fear it because of its unpredictability, its affect on the fears of society, the persecution that may be involved, and the possibility that one may lash out at an innocent individual.

The question becomes: whether the monster will defeat the scientist and whether that is a good thing? Is the scientist seeking a cure, and is the monster (which is now a part of him) interfering with that endeavour? So, is the dual nature unchangeable, has it now become metaphsyical and beyond the will of the scientist?

So, is the beast the ideal? It seems that the beast represents the ideal of individual freedom, freedom from the fist of our fellow brothers, driven by their igorance and their fear?

If the monster becomes the more benevolent character, the more heroic, what was wrong with the scientist, the mere human? Why couldn't he achieve the physical victory that the beast could? Must man's nature now be condemned--man within his own skin must be condemned and replaced with the brawny mutation beyond man?

Yes, there is an obvious mind body dichotomy, it seems. Victor Hugo was conscious of the fundamental necessity of integrating the grotesque with the sublime? But what is grotesque and what is sublime? Can a non-grotesque human achieve the sublimity of the grotesque Hulk? Are the Hulk's achievement's sublime?

You suggest, Nate, that the Hulk's subliminity are in his ideals that he shares with Objectivism. The fact that the beast and the man are the same form but switch by an unnatural whim, suggests an indeciveness in the creator of the Hulk myth. At any moment, the Hulk can be Banner, and vice versa. If the story line keeps it like this, we certainly do not have an answer as to which is better, the mind or the body, reason or emotion. If this whim of form persists, there is no metaphsyical appraisal on the question of whether man has free will, he does not. Is the Hulk a man or a "superman"? This is the uninspring part about the Hulk.

A much more inspiring one is that of Quasimodo in Notre Dame de Paris (Hugo). A man born of a deformity, bring him to modern times, but with the soul of a human still intact, struggling for happiness, deserving and capable, but impeding by society and its erroneous norms. In this situation the man, on the surface, seems a beast, but he is utterly a genuine human soul.

Victor Hugo seems to have a fascination with this for he repeats it in The Man Who Laughs, with Gwynplaine, whose mutilated face was done by the hands of an evil surgeon.

And I suppose, Dumas, had the samething in mind with The Man In The Iron Mask.

Let's give the guy super strength, i.e., powers that most men don't have but can be created by the innovative scientific inventor. I am uncomfortable with the source of superpowers being some accident, something unknown to humans, or non-human. Humanity erred and now he has gone beyond himself, and I don't know which is better, to be human or to be a beast, and I don't know whether they are even different, or even the same! The instantaneous transformation allows for too much mysticism and supernaturalism.

This comic is surely a fantasy, and I am not saying that their is no value, or not much value, in fantasy. I'll admit I haven't read much fantasy. I acknowledge the parallels with Objectivism, and seeing the connections made were very pleasing. But I can't help but begin to think about a new comic hero, better than Hulk, better than the Bat, better than Superman.

And perhaps it is time for a new myth, an new comic hero? We can call him Mr. Green. I would prefer the idea of the beast being unable to go back to being a man. Let's make him a giant, but not one as massive in width as the hulk. I want him more slender. I want him to resemble Michaelangelo's David but I want his skin Green. I want his struggle to be a definately human one. I want him suddenly to be injected with this overwhelming passion and physical strength. I want his struggle to be to learn how to tame his now superior human body. I want him to struggle with understanding his now upgraded mind, requiring a manual of operation known to no other man before but completely human and possible. (The idea that men only use 10% of their mental power--and what about their physical power?)The story of the human mind finding the way to the promise of gianthood promised at the birth of man.

So, Nate, what is the Hulk's experience and view in romantic love?

Americo. :thumbsup:

Edited by AMERICONORMAN
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"In enjoying a story such as Jekyl/Hyde mutations, one must take for granted the belief that men can mutate themselves. One can look at the effects of high levels of radiation on people and their limbs, and one will be left satisfied to continue on with the story"--AMERICONORMAN

Well, Hulk is science fiction/fantasy, so I think it's a given there. ;)

"The only problem with believing in this fictional creature is the fact that his transformation is instantaneous and occurs without his will. But using my imagination's fantasy I will be satisfied with this puzzle and continue forward."--AMERICONORMAN

Hm, why is this a puzzle? Do you mean it is puzzling to you because you don't think your body can transform against your will? You cannot "will" your body not to be sick (well, attitude may affect health, but if you get a virus no amount of willing will stop it).

And then the question also becomes: Whose will? Do you look at Bruce Banner and the Hulk(s) as one being, or two that are somehow linked through one form? I think that the Hulk has a will of his own, and he wants to be free.

It seems logical that if the mutation occured to the scientist by accident, then he would have trouble accepting his new form, the monster.  He would even fear it because of its unpredictability, its affect on the fears of society, the persecution that may be involved, and the possibility that one may lash out at an innocent individual.
Yes, this is Banner's initial fears as well. Interesting enough, by issue #4 he believed he could control his transformations and for the remainder of the series (2 more whole issues) and a few appearances in other titles, he willfully transformed into the Hulk using a gamma ray device of his own design. The interesting thing is, Banner wasn't really in control, and each successive transformation he acted less like Banner, and more like Hulk.

The question is: Does Bruce Banner really not want to be the Hulk, or does he find positive traits in the Hulk even while explicitly denying his value? When Bruce Banner gained full mental control over being the Hulk, he did not then choose to be Bruce Banner. He decided he wanted to be the Hulk and refused to search for a cure for his physical ailment (claiming he could "do more good" as the Hulk in cases of emergencies). This decision drove his love, Betty Ross, away for about 40 issues.

If you saw the movie, there was one line that I thought was quite brilliant: "Do you know what scares me the most? When it comes over me, when I can't fight it anymore and I totally lose control...I like it." In the comics, this is backed up with scenes where Bruce Banner willfully tries to turn into the Hulk in order to accomplish some end.

The question becomes: whether the monster will defeat the scientist and whether that is a good thing?  Is the scientist seeking a cure, and is the monster (which is now a part of him) interfering with that endeavour?

Is he seeking a cure, or is he seeking to kill the Hulk? If you ever heard the Hulk speak about Betty Ross, Rick Jones and Banner, he doesn't say "stop trying to cure me!" He says, "stop trying to kill me!"

If the monster becomes the more benevolent character, the more heroic, what was wrong with the scientist, the mere human?  Why couldn't he achieve the physical victory that the beast could?  Must man's nature now be condemned--man within his own skin must be condemned and replaced with the brawny mutation beyond man?
That's a very interesting way to look at it. What was wrong with Banner, that the Hulk is such an improvement? Was there something wrong with Banner, or the society and its culture that he grew up in? Bruce Banner claims to be dedicated to reason, and sees the Hulk as nothing but a power worshipper, loving power for the sake of power...Perhaps both are true, to an extent.

Bruce Banner believes in reason and knowledge, but he is missing an important component: individuality. In the society he grew up in, his individual worth was disregarded, it was more important to use his gifts to help others. Others such as his country (building weapons for the military), or orphan kids who get themselves into trouble (Rick Jones). The Hulk adds the individualist component, a will for being free and the power to obtain it.

I know of two stories in which Bruce Banner is placed in a false world based on his "hopes and desires", one in comic form and one in prose. In both, the worlds created are worlds without the Hulk, yet there is an interesting characteristic in both: Bruce Banner is the head of his own research company, he has a wife and kids. It's funny that he believes that this is his life without the Hulk, but where was his life really heading before becoming the Hulk? He did not have any private sector aspirations, he was working for the military. He did not seek any of these values for himself. The Hulk caused Banner to reasses his search for values, making him more self-interested than he was before. Why? Maybe the arrival of the Hulk made the importance of pursuing your own values more clearly to Banner because, while the Hulk pursued his values, Bruce Banner realized his own values that he was missing out on.

As I mentioned before, it may not be possible for both the Hulk and Banner to each find happiness, since they each desire their own sets of values. The arrival of the Hulk may have finally made it clear to Banner that he has to seek his values on his own or risk losing them.

You suggest, Nate, that the Hulk's subliminity are in his ideals that he shares with Objectivism.  The fact that the beast and the man are the same form but switch by an unnatural whim, suggests an indeciveness in the creator of the Hulk myth.  At any moment, the Hulk can be Banner, and vice versa.  If the story line keeps it like this, we certainly do not have an answer as to which is better, the mind or the body, reason or emotion.  If this whim of form persists, there is no metaphsyical appraisal on the question of whether man has free will, he does not.  Is the Hulk a man or a "superman"?  This is the uninspring part about the Hulk.

I can see that.

Let's give the guy super strength, i.e., powers that most men don't have but can be created by the innovative scientific inventor.  I am uncomfortable with the source of superpowers being some accident, something unknown to humans, or non-human.  Humanity erred and now he has gone beyond himself, and I don't know which is better, to be human or to be a beast, and I don't know whether they are even different, or even the same!
So is the Hulk an "Atlas", or is he a "Prometheus," someone who must suffer for revealing knowledge not meant for man? I suppose the idea of some things in the universe beyond Man's mind, things that man are not supposed to know, is contrary to Objectivism. So, if the Hulk Prometheus?

The parallels have been drawn before. In the prose tale "The Last Titan", written by Peter David and later rewritten in graphic novel form in "Hulk: The End", Bruce Banner finds himself to be the last survivor on Earth after the rest of Earth was obliterated by nuclear war. Among the Hulk's powers is the ability to heal from any wound, which makes this parallel all the more visually clear:

And the Hulk...the Hulk was...is...the living symbol of the atomic age. The gamma-spawned monster. The atomic age, which brought fire and a terrible, terrible knowledge to humankind. A knowledge for which the final, terrible price was...oblivion.

When the Hulk first strode the earth...God in heaven...there were giants in those days. Hercules, and Giant-Man, and Captain America, and the Fantastic Four, and Spider-Man and all of them, on and on. More than mortal...they were, each in their own way, titans. Some of them, like the X-Men, even owed their existence on a genetic level to radiation.

[Part of text cut]

But the Hulk was spawned in the heart of a nuclear blast. That made him first. First among the Titans. First...and last. For all the others are gone now. Gone because of the ghastly knowledge that came from the creation of the atomic bomb.

Someone has to pay for that knowledge. Someone has to continue to be punished, because there are some crimes that are simply so awesome, so beyond forgiveness, that punishment must continue to be exacted. That's what hell is for, after all.

Hell on Earth.

The Hulk has been given the mantel of Prometheus. The living symbol of nuclear fire is to be devoured, over and over again, but always able to rise up and be consumed once more.

post-1634-1119120747_thumb.jpg

So rather than a hero saving mankind, Hulk (or Banner?) is cast as a criminal to be punished for damning it. I prefer to look at Hulk as a hero though, and the traits I value (individualism) I see in him.

The instantaneous transformation allows for too much mysticism and supernaturalism.
I can see some supernaturalism, but it is fantasy.

And perhaps it is time for a new myth, an new comic hero?  We can call him Mr. Green.  I would prefer the idea of the beast being unable to go back to being a man.  Let's make him a giant, but not one as massive in width as the hulk.  I want him more slender.  I want him to resemble Michaelangelo's David but I want his skin Green.  I want his struggle to be a definately human one.  I want him suddenly to be injected with this overwhelming passion and physical strength.  I want his struggle to be to learn how to tame his now superior human body.  I want him to struggle with understanding his now upgraded mind, requiring a manual of operation known to no other man before but completely human and possible.

Funny that you mention this. By the late 80's, writer Peter David set Hulk on a new course: he would merge the Hulk's identities together into one, gestalt being. The result was a Hulk with immense strength, confidence and looks, but with Bruce Banner's brilliance. This Hulk was not nearly as monsterous, all though he was large, but he had a more human face with Bruce Banner's characteristics. This Hulk had to adjust to being a new, whole person.

Eventually, several mental traumas caused Bruce to question himself, and the personalities began to split apart and reassert themselves.

The idea that men only use 10% of their  mental power--and what about their physical power?
I have read this is just a myth, the part about using only 10% of your brain.

So, Nate, what is the Hulk's experience and view in romantic love?

Bruce Banner and the Hulk have had many loves. Bruce Banner has loved Betty Ross, the daughter of his nemesis General Ross, and eventually married her. She died several years ago, but has seemingly been resurrected (again, fantasy!). The Hulk has a love for Betty, but more as a close friend than sexually or romantically, especially the child-like Hulk.

The Hulk had one great love, who loved both Bruce Banner and the beast he turned into and they both loved her back. Her name was Jarella, the Queen of a subatomic world named K'ai. When she died, Hulk went on a rampage to find a mystic named Doctor Strange, a fellow team mate of his, in hopes that he could revive her from the dead, but he could not.

Thanks for indulging my bit of laymen critiquing. Would you, or anyone else, recommend I pick up Rand's Romantic Manifesto? Or should I read some of her fiction, first?

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1. I remember in the 80's I watched the Hulk real life series, so there must be tons of stuff stuffed down in my subconscious, though it is hard to recall much.

2. I can give you a whole list of things to read, Rand and non-Rand. But first and foremost given the foreign quote you provided towards the end, read Rand's early play called THINK TWICE, about a murder of someone involved in a kind of Manhattan project. It is found in a paperback collection called THE EARLY AYN RAND edited by Leonard Peikoff.

3. The Romantic Manifesto is required reading because it is so historically unprecedented and we have Ayn Rand at her most passionate in article-prose. You can read an article at a time and in many different ways and different order. The book is actually something one will read over one's lifetime in layers. Everytime you re-read it you will expand your knowledge. It is so rich and fruitful but it may take years to cultivate the soil properly.

4. If you're interested in writing, then the editions of her lecture course by Tore Boeckmann called THE ART OF FICTION is highly recommended.

a. but I most recently found that if one wants to start to actively write, one should begin with people like O. Henry, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Edgar Allan Poe; De Maupassant, and even the other naturalists that Objectivists are taught not to like.

b. the reason is that one should first be familiar with the type of story one personally likes, and one should indulge in writing that. What is a short story--for you? Then you can read Rand's theory and see if she has anything to teach you. She will, trust me, I know ... but it may not happen for everybody.

5. But I don't know what you are all about so it really depends on that for what you should read first. If you're interested in politics, read CAPITALISM: THE UNKNOWN IDEAL. If ethics, then THE VIRTUE OF SELFISHNESS, etc.

6. But definately it is always a good idea to read her fiction. Do that! My personal favorite is THE FOUNTAINHEAD. I am literarily intrigued by the grotesque in the souls of individual characters and how that provides interest and helps move the story through conflict. Howard Roark's best friend is spiritually half a monster! Don't get me started on his 'broad'. Howard Roark is sublimity.

I may take the time to look more into this Hulk guy and add something else. But I can't promise anything.

Americo.

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5.  But I don't know what you are all about so it really depends on that for what you should read first.  If you're interested in politics, read CAPITALISM: THE UNKNOWN IDEAL.  If ethics, then THE VIRTUE OF SELFISHNESS, etc.

Thus far I have read Capitalism: TUI, VOS, Philosophy: WNI & am currently reading "The Voice of Reason."

6.  But definately it is always a good idea to read her fiction.  Do that!  My personal favorite is THE FOUNTAINHEAD.  I am literarily intrigued by the grotesque in the souls of individual characters and how that provides interest and helps move the story through conflict.  Howard Roark's best friend is spiritually half a monster!  Don't get me started on his 'broad'.  Howard Roark is sublimity.
Sounds cool, I definitely was planning on reading The Fountainhead.

I may take the time to look more into this Hulk guy and add something else.  But I can't promise anything.

Americo.

That's cool. I like the Hulk for a lot of reasons, partially because I relate to him personally. Maybe I'm imagining some objectivist themes, but I don't think I'm doing so entirely. There are so many different ways to view the same characters and discussing them intellectually is very exciting for me.

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This line of discussion about whether the Hulk and Bruce Banner are really different personalities reminds me of the Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde character from the League of Extraordinary Gentleman, a fun superhero film. :)

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