Magna Carta - A Charter Of "procedural Rights"

[softwareNerd]

The Magna Carta (1215 A.D.) lists what one might call "procedural rights" or "concrete rights" [see this thread for a discussion of such rights]. Basically, these are implementations, i.e. concrete forms of, the rights to life.

The Magna Carta is a good illustration of the development of knowledge. In it, we do not see an abstract declaration of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. (Indeed, I would guess that many of the lords, churchmen and merchants who were asking for some rights would have said that peasants are far less deserving of rights than they.)

Instead of abstract principles, the Magna Carta is mostly a list of specific "procedural rights" (someone give me a better term). It makes sense that people in that far away age would start by groping for some specific rights, e.g. the right to cut down part of a forest to grow food on the land, before reaching the broader principle. It took a few centuries during which people enumerated various such rights before they could grasp the more abstract idea of the "right to life" and its applicability to all human beings.

For anyone who's interested, here's my summary of the rights listed in the Magna Carta:

1. King to have less control of Church.
   
2. "Free men" to have certain rights.
   
3. Heirs have a right to their father's land
   
4. A debtor's land may not be seized if he chooses to pay his debt from other assets
   
5. Certain types of taxes restricted
   
6. Special "independence" for the City of London
   
7. Ordinary law-suits will be settled in a fixed place, instead of moving around with the royal court
   
8. Other "roaming" courts established, to handle cases is some areas
   
9. Fines should be reasonable, and part of the test should be that the fine does not deprive the person of their source of livelihood
   
10. Constables & royal officials must pay for corn they take and must get an owner's consent before taking certain items.
    
11. Standards laid down for weights and measures
    
12. A person's confession alone is not sufficient basis to try him
    
13. In peacetime, merchants may freely enter and leave England without being taxed unduly
    
14. New forests created during King John's reign will be deforested
    

[hunterrose]

"Free men" to have certain rights.

You just gotta love that one It does seem like a laundry list of loosely associated demands, but I guess they had to start somewhere. I particularly like #10 and #12.

What led you to the Magna Carta, sN?

[softwareNerd]

What led you to the Magna Carta, sN?

It's often mentioned as an important landmark in British history. It appears to be important in the the history of the world as well.

An important question would be: what led to the Magna Carta. Not just the concrete details, but what general change or what general prior condition? Can we learn from that condition? Can it give us ideas of how to bring about positive change today?

For instance, if we assume that changing ideas and philosophy bring about such political changes, then what was the idea and philosophy of that time and how was it changing? Also, since people living in a culture have multiple and varying ideas, what causes one set to win out? Is there an element of chance to the timing of such changes: for instance, if an important and powerful baron is influenced by ideas of rights rather than some minor squire?

[DavidOdden]

An important question would be: what led to the Magna Carta. Not just the concrete details, but what general change or what general prior condition? Can we learn from that condition? Can it give us ideas of how to bring about positive change today?

As I understand it, this was caused by abuse of power by the sovereign. It does not seem to me that it was caused by a general change in philosophy per, and may reflect a return to an earlier (pre-Norman) philosophy where kings were less powerful. One thing I think we can learn from it, as well as the events that took place in the US after Nixon's demise, is that overly-powerful rulers who step beyond the boundaries of their office will eventually be overthrown by their victims, if the victims have a freedom-loving philosophy, and that our forbearance for stomping on our rights is not infinitely flexible.