Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum

EC

Regulars
  • Content Count

    1888
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    11

Everything posted by EC

  1. What does that even mean? I vaguely understand people mean emotions when they say something like this, but what is exactly meant by it has always eluded me. Why do people attach any concepts of thought or feeling to a biological pump?
  2. EC

    Universals

    It emerges because a sufficiently complex systems capable of storing past data and processing it all is what causes consciousness. On a different note I think we should eventually stop calling AI "artificial" intelligence artificial. At a certain point when it is both conscious and capable of thinking and reasoning via concepts and abstract thought it is just intelligence with nothing "artificial" about it. The "big bang" phase transition of our pocket of the larger eternal universe created hydrogen, helium, and a bit of lithium. Some other elements were created by comic rays hitting the protons in those elements and everything else was made in supernovas and neutron star collisions etc. Combinations of these elements can combine in certain ways such that they are complex enough to cause consciousness to arise. And in even more specific situations conceptual minds like are own. But it would be foolish to say the combination that produced our own consciousness is "natural" while other combinations are supposedly "artificial". Consciousness is consciousness regardless of what the elements that were used to produce it. We should call AI alternative intelligence instead if we want to differentiate it from our own. Sorry, I sidetracked but I'm an INTP and probably have a touch of Asperger's so I tend to think of many different possibilities and concepts at once while trying to connect the concepts in novel ways. So I tend to think in multiple tangents at once. I know it probably makes some of my posts difficult to parse, and I apologize for that. But hey you get a peak inside a slightly autistic INTP's mind for free! lol
  3. EC

    Universals

    You are clearly contradicting yourself here saying everything that exists has a "mental" aspect, and then saying everything doesn't have a mind. I"m done following this discussion because of this. FWIW, I agree the second clause in my above sentence is true, but that the first clause is impossible and you are creating a floating abstraction.
  4. EC

    Universals

    Thanks. I do understand this though. But when I asked where these Platonic Forms metaphysically, first he said something like "why are you asking for the location of an abstraction", and the later said his ideas are Aristotelian instead of Platonic. So he essentially believes in "essences" existing "out there" in metaphysical reality but can't tell me *where* they exist.
  5. EC

    Universals

    The bolded implies consciousness though. There is no "mental" without consciousness.
  6. EC

    Universals

    @intrinsicist So you are basically advocating panpsychism and would agree that everything from an electron, a stone, and a star all possess some level of consciousness based on their level of complexity (according to that view)? I think if this discussion is to be productive, exactly what you believe to be true needs to be pinned down. Someone will say it seems like you are advocating X- idea and then you say, "no, I believe Y". And Y never seems to make any logical sense when looked at critically.
  7. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    (1) Yes. That doesn't make it valid (2) When people use the word "simplistic" they are usually boxed in thinkers who are incapable of simultaneously thinking in both principles and uniquely using intuition to create new abstractions. Just because something is "good enough" for one time period doesn't mean that it's ideal for use in the future. (3) I agree with all of this. It has no bearing on my conclusion though, as what happened in a non-technological past isn't important for an ideal society of a highly technical future. We are just now at the dawn of actual civilization, it's never truly existed before.
  8. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    But that's all we have, and it's the logical progression that had to happen.
  9. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    No, populations "influencing the government" is what contradicts American values. Democracy in any form is evil.
  10. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    They won't. The government will if one is ever properly created. 350 million + would have no ability to violate my rights under a proper government without committing a crime that they would instantly be held accountable for without the ability to "change" the government in any way. A system (like todays) that allows voting to do so either directly or via proxies is immoral and an improper government. The US Constitution can never be "fixed", it needs to be replaced with a proper constitution and a proper form of government that only rights-respecter's have an ability to interact with.
  11. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    A living being with an extremely long life is not an "invalid idea". People can and will be "hacked" or exist in other long living forms, that this will happen is not some radical idea-- it's where science is quickly happening. Today, for instance, I read an article where a group in Israel have claimed the discovery of a cure for cancer, that they are going to try to bring to the market in a year. If "immortal" bothers you, and think it changes things so much then change the wording to extremely long-lived. Eventually our part of the universe is likely to undergo a "heat death" anyway so "immortal" isn't a completely accurate term anyway. An extremely long-lived lifeform will still need morality and it will not change. I've read The Objectivist Ethics either fully or in parts countless times fwiw.
  12. EC

    The Case for Open Objectivism

    Another thing, you keep harping on about how our species is tribalist, or that we all have this or that attribute depending on what "race" we belong to, etc. And all of us keep saying that what you are claiming does not apply to us, I know none of it applies to me. I don't care or acknowledge the importance of "tribes", I'm NOT a social animal--fuck the world, I'm not a racist--don't believe "race" even exists, etc. If an individual exists that isn't part of the "human nature" that you claim, then what you are claiming is wrong. Period.
  13. EC

    The Case for Open Objectivism

    No, this is what evil Leftist SJW's believe because they've allowed their rational capacities to be neutered to the point that all they can do is mindlessly repeat what the irrational majorities around them are chanting. They have next to no capability of rational independent thought left. You are the same, but with slightly different, but equally evil views. You are also parroting complete nonsense the same as they are but based on the far evil Right. You are all evil collectivists that no longer are capable of independent rational thought outside what the majorities of your respective evil spheres of influence tell you. That you would morally equate what a majority that is by definition evil due to it's Leftist philosophy believes with what is true in reality means that you are irredeemably evil as I already surmised. FWIW I'm white and would happily have you and other racists shipped out of the US along with all the other collectivists of the Left or Right. You are all evil.
  14. EC

    Universals

    Yes, the universe as a whole is eternal but the universe literally does not contain floating abstractions. People are going to keep arguing with you because that's what they do, but eternal products of minds existing without minds do not exist. This whole discussion is actually stupid because you are positing the existence of something without definition, location, or identity. My guess is that you are subtly writing off what I'm saying as simplistic when really you can't obstensively point to something that you are claiming is metaphysical, i.e., something that exists in reality. What do you mean by a metaphysical substance btw?
  15. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    This is just wrong. It's not based on "things we need in order to survive", it's about the needs of a man's life qua man. Becoming an essentially immortal man doesn't mean that you don't no longer live. You just live exponentially longer. Reason, Purpose, Pride, etc. become massively more important when your life has been massively extended. Don't believe it? Imagine spending the first 100 or 1,000 years looked in a dark closet, and then try to claim afterward that life itself must not have a purpose because you know with absolute certainty that you aren't going to drop dead tomorrow. On the other subject of the thread, how can a society claim to be free if it demands from it's citizens or potential citizens that they can't privately embrace philosophies that are anti-liberty? Why does it matter if there is one of these people or hundreds of millions of them? The political structure should be "sturdy" enough such that even if I'm the only capitalist in a nation of socialists (this is what it does feel like now btw) that they can in no way enact their evil philosophies on me and if they try to in any way the government protects me from them.
  16. EC

    Which Eternity?

    Yes, but why? The concept of the "multiverse", or the true concept of all that exists--the universe, is the process where the universe does everything that is physically possible, including the exact inverse of every given possible process such that the entire whole effectively cancels the entire energy out. It's of this this whole, which is far beyond what a naive interpretation of Rand's Razor says is possible that this describes and makes logical sense. It's only in that light that the concept of a dimensionless universe where concepts of space and time don't apply is possible. Everything that is physically permitted happens in the multiverse (actual universe) such that the product of the energy density of all possible possibilities equals exactly zero. This is NOT Reification of Zero, it's the process that allow physical reality to exist with a slight positive energy. Existence exists, but there has to be a reason why it does; it's not sufficient to just state that it does. Existence must exist for a reason.
  17. EC

    Which Eternity?

    A few predictions from what I talked about above. T-Duality predicts the event horizon of our local universe from any given point in local spacetime will be 1/Plank length. Supersymmetry is unbroken at the event horizon but broken on either side of it. Either spacetime "side" will appear curled to the other side with a radius of the Plank length; which is why the AdS/CFT correspondence describes an anti-de Sitter space rather than our "universe's" de Sitter space. Besides the supersymmetric particles, no particle of "Dark Matter" will ever be discovered because Dark Matter is not a particle; it's the aggregate tension of a critical amount of mass interacting at the separating event horizon; the string-tension itself displayed at the galactic level via the AdS/CFT correspondence.
  18. EC

    Which Eternity?

    I'll just state without the requisite proofs or citations, (I was going to originally reply with citations and everything the OP had, but don't really have the time, lol ) that I think it's likely that our "universe" (scare quotes, because that should apply to all that exists not the sliver we are confined to of the observable universe) is the result of a blackhole forming in a "another universe" and every blackhole in ours produces another "universe", and so on both ways. Blackholes all the way down. This also produces actual physical explanations for things supposedly without explanations currently. It makes no sense to claim for instance that our observable universe "popped" into existence nowhere and is expanding into nothing like currently claimed. But a blackhole containing "our universe" coming into existence in a pre-existing larger universe makes actually makes physical sense without requiring mental gymnastics. If you accept this paradigm something like Dark Energy immediately has a physical meaning, the Dark Energy that is currently causing the accelerated expansion of our "universe" would be the result of the inflow of gas and expansion of the blackhole in which "our universe" resides. Another presumed occurrence, eternal inflation with supposedly "different universe's popping into existence and again supposedly creating their own spacetime while supposedly expanding into a zero" also makes actual physical sense with this paradigm, when you consider that nothing strange is actually happening. New blackholes are simply created in pre-existing "universes" and what separates an "old universe" from a "new universe" (actually all just parts of an entire true universe) is the event horizon of the newly formed blackhole. These event horizons are incredibly important. Superstring theories posit many extra-dimensions for instance that seem as unreal (especially to an Objectivist) as a universe supposedly popping ex-nihilo out of nothing, for no reason, then expanding into this supposed nothingness. But the event horizons provide a "border" between "two universes", two 4 dimensional spacetimes that actively interact with one another (hey we suddenly have 8 interacting dimensions of spacetime) and another 2 from the event horizon sphere wrapping the internal spacetime. Hey, we're up to ten purely physical degrees of freedom now. Anyway, I could go on, but this is a good introduction for now anyway.
  19. EC

    Universals

    Let's try this a different way. There was a sudden phase-transition of a pre-existing universe that is labeled the Big Bang. At what point after the Bang do you believe these "abstract objects" came into being or do you believe they were pre-existing? I can list both a time and locations for where abstract ideas began to exist. With the time being whenever sufficiently evolved brains produced conceptual minds for the first time, and the current locations of these abstract ideas are in those minds or in media those minds produced, i.e., stone tablets, books, computer hard drives, cyberspace, etc. This is what I mean when I ask for where "abstract objects (ideas)" exist currently and when they came into existence. Plato postulated a "supernatural realm" for these Forms. I'm assuming all true modern day thinkers reject the supernatural in all respects and therefore if these "abstract objects" aren't floating physically in spacetime that we can observe, aren't located in minds or other media, and the supernatural doesn't exist, then unless an alternative place for them to exist that isn't physically impossible is pointed out for where these Forms/Universals exist then they simply don't exist. The next important question after that is how these Forms/Universals transmit their attributes to the concretes that share these attributes, but this is secondary.
  20. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    I realize the the above "it is" is an assertion. When I make these type of weak assertions I assume if the reader isn't up-to-date on what's slightly over the scientific horizon, that they can use Google for concepts like telomere, DNA, and nanobot-based repair, mind upload to the cloud, synthetic bodies, etc.
  21. EC

    Universals

    Because everything that exists must exist *somewhere* or they wouldn't exist. You are the one positing the actual metaphysical existence of these "abstract objects". So I'm following up by asking where their physical location is? And how do they communicate their abstract properties to concrete objects from wherever they exist?
  22. EC

    Universals

    Existing where? A mind noting essential aspects of concrete objects, and the same process copied to cyberspace are the only places available, unless you can point out to us where reality hides it's perfect circles from us. Please don't say in other dimensions, while they must exist, they aren't places to hide perfect circles.
  23. EC

    Universals

    Yeah, but where does it exist, in your opinion, if it does? I think this could be created right now, in reality, in a Python program, that self-creates proper Objectivist concept definitions for all proper concepts that man has created. That's the only way this could exist. It would also produce an extremely powerful AI if you provided the right twists in how the program goes about this.
  24. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    It will be, yes. If part of man's nature is that he can use technology to become effectively immortal, and it is, then how could it not be? Do you believe morality stops being moral in 20-30 years when this technology is commonplace? Omniscient beings? We are talking about things that are possible not imaginary and unscientific.
  25. EC

    Immigration restrictions

    Morality does though. No I'm positing an AI that is morally perfect and wouldn't need to be held in check. It would be the one holding potential rights violators in check with swift devastating force if needed. Objectivism was designed originally for man, but is a philosophy for all possible rational entities. It doesn't matter what you are made of or what caused your existence, if you are an entity with a conscious conceptual mind, an ego, than the code that properly guides your action is egoism. Man is only temporarily a mortal animal, immortality will soon be a very real thing, and then losing the animal attribute may follow. Because mind is mind regardless of what physical substrate generates it's existence. A rational entity requires the usage of reason and concepts which Objectivist epistemology provides. Either Objectivist epistemology is valid and applies to all minds or it's not valid at all. There's no alternative.
×