Michero

It is something I have never really thought of because as a city girl I'd welcome any business near my home (although I did get a little upset when I found out the process my dad had to go through in order to build a fence on his own property). It was mostly due to my parents' anger about the issue that I began to wonder if their anger wasn't justified. Llike I said I don't think it's right for a gov. to tell a private land owner what to do with his own land, but I can understand why my parents are looking to stop the guy from building a car lot down the street. I'm not sure I completely understand your distinction here between immoral and wrong. Are you saying that the existence of the zoning laws is wrong, but the citizens trying to use them for their advantage is not immoral?

I'll see if I can add to the info. First it was not borrowed money, it was cash down (i think is the phrase). For the first 2 months it was empty while we repaired the dining room floor which was cherry wood and had some damage. We painted and wired the house for cable and computer routers. We bought a new rug for the TV room and repaired the fireplace which had very minimal damage. Most of the work has been done on the outside of the house in recent years. We built an amazing tool shed which looks like a mini version of the house (very cute if I may say so) and the landscaping compared with what it was is phenomenal. That's all my dad's doing-- 2 trees removed some sod placed, lots of plants added oh and an in-ground pool added. We built a fence around the pool and a fence along the road (it's a corner property). What's left to do, is the veranda wood needs some replacing and my dad wants to get a new deck. Adding the pool and eventually the deck will probably amount to the most capital put into the property. As for time, I'd say in the beginning a lot of time was spent. All weekend hours for the first year probably then since that it has been fairly minimal. Almost everything has been done during the summers, and then perhaps 25-30 hours per week more or less. Now my father acquired a townhouse which he'd been fixing up to rent (it is now, finally being rented) so for the last year hardly anytime was spent on the big house. One note: property taxes are quite bad here something like 5%.

Good luck with your studies, and everything else. From what I've heard, going against the JW community can be kind of rough.

No. I agree a city should not have the right to tell people what to do with their own land. The only way something like zoning would be right, is as DavidOdden said if the person from whom you bought the land stipulated use of land in the contract such as in gated neighborhoods. I'm going to do a little research on this further in the coming days, so I can better understand where my town's zoning laws came from and how they are enforced etc.

But we aren't talking about whole states or even cities--just one town. Do you believe that there's any ethical way for neighbors to agree to keep their town a town of houses and not businesses? I understand what you mean by nobody should be able to tell you what to do with your own property. But what if you want to buy that property because of the zoning law or agreement. Isn't it a fair trade that you agree not to build a business so long as nobody else will within the town?

Well I want to buy property because it seems very low risk, and the increase in value of property over time (with the proper care) is quite nice. I've been helping my father (ex-realtor) fix up a house for about the past 5 years and it's value has nearly doubled. Plus, once I own property I can rent it out (i'm thinking maybe a few townhouses eventually) and have steady income with low workload after I retire or before whatever. It just seems smart from what I've seen so far. But like I said, I'm just starting to really investigate this.

The book advertised on that website looks great "Noble Vision by Gen LaGreca --anyone read it, well I suppose that's a different forum. Just wanted to point that out.

In line with this topic (I have been reading about mutual funds a lot lately) I realised recently that I want to get into real estate as soon as possible. I am just about to graduate college so obviously I have no money, in fact less than that I owe money, but can anyone suggest good books that I could start with about investing in property?

Thanks for all the replies so far. My primary question--I don't think I phrased it clearly in my original post, was about the morality of zoning laws in general. But I suppose if one knows before one buys property that there are zoning laws and town boards for specific use of land, that it is ethical, since it is an agreement between residents and not forced on anyone. When it becomes ethically questionable is when township try to rezone areas after people have bought property, which isn't fair to people who already live their under the assumption that certain types of activities will not take place in their neighborhood.

In my area there's a big debate because the owner of a car dealership bought (many years ago) a 12 acre lot of land in our small community. He wants to move his dealership onto that land. Though the area is not zoned for that. Sorry I don't know much about the zoning laws, only that the owner has been trying for nearly a decade to get the area rezoned. My questions pertain to zoning in general. Is it OK for a town to block out certain types of business. I see the benefits of course, as my house would be right next to the lot--so I'd hear the noise in the day, deal with the traffic and lose the nice view I have now, the lights at night will probably be irritating and the value of my property will certainly decrease. But besides the benefits zoning laws may give me, are they legitimate?

Great response AisA.

Yes. Why wouldn't a Moroccan guard say that? Oh it was a Moroccan guard who said that? I thought it was an American. My fault.

Wow, it sounds to me as if he is not enjoying living...like it's some kind of chore or task we must get through. Or maybe he's just an old man trying to comfort himself as he nears the end. He thinks perhaps it's better to be resigned to death rather than be one of those old people lamenting about the fact that people have to die... Or as others have said, it may be a product of his philosophy. I don't know very much about the Rand/Branden split so I couldn't say. Actually, if anyone feels like it could you summarize where he differs from Rand? I remember hearing something about a business deal gone sour but I'm more interested in their philosophic split.

What I don't get in the guys diary records is, why anyone would want him to lie? He says specifically they were training him to say certain things, to admit his guilt--but that doesn't help us in anyway, we don't gain any helpfl information through his lying so why would our soldiers do it? Secondly this little entry, where he asks why he is being tortured an american soldier's supposed response is : I'm sorry but does that sound at like the something someone would actually say? http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/...1540552,00.html

I thought A Murder of Crows was very clever, but I remember disliking Spartan for some reason (I haven't seen it in a while). Also everyone look out for a new Jodie Foster flick about a plane and a missing kid. It looks pretty good.

I cannot believe I didn't tell you guys about Gentleman's Agreement Trust me on this one; see it. Gregory Peck is a journalist who goes undercover pretending to be Jewish so he can experience anti-semitism but what he discovers is that along with the regular bigots, all the people who professed their hatred of anti-semitism are just as bad. Premise-wise this film is one of the best.

I have a questions about why people enjoyed movies like 25th hour. Why?

Of course. Because people generally don't bother to do the research from which they'd glean a basic understanding. It's much easier to go by popular opinion, word of mouth and generalizations based on what one person (objectivist or not) says. The other type of person is the ex-objectivist who never understood it but was fond of regurgitating some of the basics, then later when they realise it's not such a popular philosophy they feel duped and lash-out.

I'll try restricting my list to ones people haven't mentioned (that I've seen): October Sky Billy Elliot Almost Famous (I really liked, mostly because of the main kid's passion) The Philadelphia Story (haven't seen it in a few years though) Saving Grace White Nights A League of Their Own Twister (i really used to like this) Shaun of the dead --ok I know it's a zombie flick but I can't help it, it's just so funny almost all the way through (the end wasn't so funny).

I completely agree. The 80's mentality I think was just upbeat and positive-- I really don't remember the 80's that well it's only through the music I get that sense. Maybe it had something to do with the economy?

I've found some sites that say these particular movies (they list) are particularly "Objectivist-friendly". I'd add the new batman movie to the lists as well as an old 80's movie called white nights with Baryshnikov and Gregory Hines, about an american and russian trying to escape russia. Great. Anymore suggestions? http://members.tripod.com/AttitudeAdjustme...says/Movies.htm http://movies.davidhayes.net/ Also I know Scott Holleran does reviews for Box Office mojo (for objective reviews of movies)

I know how you feel. I haven't trusted anyone in politics since George Washington. Anyway, I'd just like to know some of the other board members' heros (that are living).

Oh-- what are Lance's politics? I guess I never thought about that... Yeah Conan is probably the best choice on that list.

Blah I can't believe I missed this! But hopefully c-span online will put up a link so we can watch it later. Here's how c-span summed up the program: Gary Hull argues that antitrust laws are harmful in the book he edited entitled "The Abolition of Antitrust." Mr. Hull and other contributing writers assert that these laws are based on bad economics and the misinterpretation of American business history. Gary Hull is joined by Yaron Brook, president of the Ayn Rand Institute in Irvine, California, to examine several antitrust cases, including General Electric, Visa/Mastercard, and Kellogg/General Mills. I doubt they put it up though as it isn't a "featured" segment. http://www.booktv.org/General/index.asp?se...796&schedID=367

My school is trying to decide who should speak at our graduation and they want suggestions. So far on their list Conan O'Brien Lance Armstrong Oprah Winfrey Hillary Clinton Jon Stewart Lance Armstrong is the only one I think I'd like to speak at my graduation. I've suggested Peikoff and Donald Trump. Who else should I request?