Alfa

Speaking of which, here's an interesting article on that subject: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/what_women_want_qRO8pvoSKeFcqrPSftoi6N/0 And an interesting book on womens sexual fantasies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Secret_Garden The picture that emerges, when you take this and dating actual women into account, is not the sexless egalitarian version.

No, it's not that way for everybody. It's about creating tension and maintaining it. A look, touch, body language (like standing a wee bit too close), or saying something controversial/uncofortable/argumentative. That tension is uncofortable. Most people like to defuse the situation. Comofortably riding on it is very powerful.

It's the easygoing eye contact that is asexual. It's friendly, which is all fine. Most of the time you may want to keep it friendly when getting to know her. Sexy eye contact is intense and uncomfortable. That's what you use to spark sexual tension. Selecting tables is taking the lead, but opening a door... only if you physically lead her through the door. No, i'm not a typical male. I say and do things others wouldn't. I'm not afraid to touch her and play with her, and I look at her in ways she's not used to. And the thing is... you don't get that tension by being polite, holding the door, easy talk and easygoing eye contact. Those things are all fine... I prefer to joke and mess around myself, but sooner or later it's time to get serious, and really ignite that spark.

I think it's proper, to some extent, to treat her as a "special case". By that I mean awareness of her femininity and not treating her like your buddy. For example; show her you're on top of things, step up and take responsibility for the date and be in charge. It's not because she's somehow unable to handle things. Dating is just a special instance where she'll want to let go of that and just experience things. To do that she must be able to put a lot of trust in you. Some of those gentlemanly conventions can certainly be used to be the leader and protector. However, it's indeed very important to treat her as a person first och foremost. She's not going to be impressed if she feels treated like some foreign object, which you're trying to figure out to get the legs opened. And, people are different. You're not going to have the same kind of relationship with everyone. Find something that works for both of you, based on mutual value.

No, it's not unfathomable or unreal. You're not really discussing principles either. What you've done here is assert that it's important to be a "professional" and then listed some do's and don't's. Taking into account your previous posts, what this ammounts to is the picture of a well mannered gentleman. That's fine. It's just that you present it simplistically and assert certain rules. The problem is not being a gentleman, but adopting it on that basis. That's especially true for the guys who really need advice on dating. The last thing they need is a set of rules that help them stay in their comfort zone. There's only one thing you've mentioned here that helps connecting with a woman on a sexual level. That's taking the lead and staying in control, like picking the table. If you're taking her out, also take responsibility for the date. It's your job to set up when, where and how. However, you're not going to connect sexually by holding the door or making easygoing eye contact. And if you don't touch her the notion of sex is going to be rather awkward later on.

Yet, i've done all of those things and more, but no one would ever call me those things. Granted, I do act like a douchebag sometimes. It's just that she'll laugh even more than I do about it. The point is to have fun and mess with her. Be a little difficult, abrasive, stir the pot and do things most guys wouldn't. But most importantly, have fun. I have never met a woman who actually falls for a guy who brings her romantic clichés and does all those things that are expected of him. It's not that I have anything at all against being a gentleman. Bring her flowers, hold the door, pay for dinner... (for the record, I always pay for the first date, because I want to and I think it's proper). I'm against doing those things because you're supposed to do them. The standard "wussy" thing to do is to show up at her door with flowers in hand and take her to an expensive dinner the first date. It's like saying "thank you so much for going out with me, please like me!". The standard "cool guy" thing is a quick "pit stop" at a café. I don't know if it's supposed to be smooth or what, but it's certainly booring. Then if you somehow still manage to get into a relationship with her you do all those meaningless little "romantic" gestures. It's not that I have anything against flowers, café's or romantic gestures. I just like them to have some meaning. If you're on the same page, that's what she is going to respond to as well. Heck, one of the best dates i've had was at McDonalds. I bet she's going to remember that as well. Especially after I dragged her down in the ball pit with me. That's why i'm suggesting trying the opposite of what you're supposed to. Benevolently, of course.

I'm all for taking charge and leading the date, but other than that I think it's really bad advice. It's doing things "by the book". That's what's expected of the guy. It's how it's "supposed" to be. Bring her flowers, lead her by the arm, get the door for her, pull out her chair and so on. Be polite and charming so you don't upset her. It's fine to be a gentleman if that's you and you got the swagger. If you don't you'll just end up looking weak and insecure. Plus, she's going to be soo boored. Try the opposite sometimes, just to see what happens: Close the door in her face: "Ooops, didn't see you there!". Or: "Hey, are you eating here too or are you just following me?". Play with her physically. Touch her shoulder, elbow, knee, neck... poke her ribs and push her around. Definitely kiss her. See if you can get her to pay: "Thanks for the pizza. Take the check while I excuse myself for a minute.... What? It was a lovely date but my time is valuable. Besides, i'm broke". Banter, banter banter. Direct the conversation. If she's not talking about something interesting, change the subject or throw her off ("hey, you got really cute dimples when you smile!"). Make her work for your attention. Don't be so serious. It's fine to show her you got a serious side as well, but mix it up.

I think he's indicated that he actually wants more, but he's holding back because he thinks that's what he should do.

I mostly disagree with this. Sure, it's a good idea not to pursue dead ends. But... Assume attraction. It's not a matter of inflating your ego, just a matter of self esteem. If you're an awesome guy, of course women will be attracted to you. Work based on that assumption, until you're proven wrong. Not every woman will want you, for many different reasons, but with that assumption you'll display a confidence which is very attractive. Ask yourself what YOU think of the woman, not what she thinks of you. One of the most common mistakes guys make is to worry far too much about what she thinks of you. Then they hook up with the first one that shows them any real interest. This often leads to dissaster since the guy never actually stopped to think about her character. And, when he worries too much about what she thinks, he'll try and please her. Don't worry if she likes you or not, if she's available or any of those things. Do you like her? Go for it. You'll find out soon enough if she wants to be with you. Many relationships start with resistance and challenge.

Worth noting though that there are typically differences between masculine and feminine between fragrances, just like with clothing. In some cultures men wear skirts, but they are different from womens clothing. Since sexuality is much about celebrating gender differences, such differentiation can serve an important role. However, that does not make a certain scent, color or garment inherently masculine or feminine. Context is everything. As with fragrances, differences in skin can entierly change the scent. And the fact of who's wearing it can change how it's percieved.

The perception of certain scents or notes as either masculine or feminine is very much marketing, culture and context. Just take flowery scents for example. In the past and in some cultures today they are worn by men(roses are popular among arab men for instance). Flowery fragrances are mostly marketed towards women. Interestingly flowers like roses have a rather sharp and strong scent, and there are some very heavy florals. The way the notes mix with the skin makes a big difference though, and of course perceptions are altered depending on who's wearing the fragrance. It's not so different from wearing a pink or a blue shirt. Personally I love perfume. Chanel's Egoiste on the right woman is divine. On my skin it's a warm, sexy, amber with an edge of spice. Frederic Malle's En Passant is another of my favorites, smelling lika a garden after a warm summers rain. I also love lilacs, so Guerlain's Angelique-lilas gets worn when it's hot - it's a light and soft fragrance. Chanel No. 5 (not the new one with Brad Pitt as a poster boy) is very classy and sexy as well. To me it's simple. If I like the fragrance and it mixes well with my skin, i'll wear it. Doesn't matter if it's Coco Mademoiselle or something that smells like gasoline mixed with chest hair. I also dress in colors that I like (and I like colors). Nothing feminine about it, because i'm not feminine - I very much enjoy my masculinity.

That's fascinating. How did you learn to implement these techniques in such a way? I like the photo. It's very striking with it's calm and austerity, and the soft but strong glow around the petals. I bet it looks fantastic in a large print.

How did you create the flower?

The problem I see with "hanging out" is that you're not showing up with a specific plan. It's unclear what you want and what she's signing up for. She wants to know what she's following you into and that she can trust you to be in charge. I don't think it matters wether you go out with friends or not, though spending some alone time can be nice. Most of my friends are pretty awesome.

You're making a good point of what NOT to do. I'd like to add the obvious point of what you should do - tell the truth. This is a obvious implication of what you're saying. However, I don't think most men understand what an afrodisiac truth is. A lot of women fall for "bad guys". They're rude, abrasive and don't treat them well. However, they tell things like they see it. No matter if it's offensive, rude or hurtful. Most men are too nice to do that. They sugar coat everything they say and rather try to determine what she wants to hear, instead of what they really think. I think the sollution is to not be the "bad guy" nor the "nice guy". Always tell the truth, but handle it well. The "brutal truth" tends to be more brutal than actually truthful. Be open, honest and transparent in your dealings with other people. If you are a good, honest, person, that's what others will respond to. And when dealing with women, saying those things that are completely honest and take courage to admit, will have a surprusing effect. I might add that with every single woman i've gotten, that has been the "key". I don't belieieve in tricks or techniques to get women, but honesty and transparency is darn close to that.

Are you reffering to my posts on the matter? If so, chasing isn't quite what i'm advocating. I'm saying you should "go the distance". It means being a good ender and putting an end to the "chase"(it's not really a chase if she just rejects you). An analogy that comes to mind is when I worked as a salesman. We had a really good product, and for the kind of service we provided there was just one competitor with a similar product - with a different target customer. For our target customers we had a great product. At first I expected people to be just all over it, but no... Some were, but most of the time there was some sort of resistance. A lot of people get defensive when they talk to salesmen, others are just polite but not really interested, a few try to waste your time because for some reason the really dislike you. Lots of walls that need to be breached. In order to succeed you need to close. That's what's most important. Close, close, close. It's not just about closing a deal, but equally important to end your dealings in a good way. What it means in practice is that you end it in a good, polite, way where the potential customer has no other choice but to give you a straight 'yes' or 'no'. It means taking control so you don't waste potential deals, while not wasting your time with someone who's never going to buy. To do that takes practice and skill. You don't want to be passive-agressive, rude or otherwise abrasive. Those people are the ones that give other salesmen a bad reputation. But, if you're too nice you're never going to close other deals than the ones where there's no resistance. That doesn't happen very often, so you're missing a lot of good deals. There are many similarities between this and pursuing women. This is not to say you should make a good sales pitch in order to get women. But, a lot of women have their walls up in order to protect themselves against bad guys. Most of them have been hurt, lied to and dissappointed before. Even if you seem like the real deal they're going to test you to determine if it's just a shiny surface, or if you hold up to scrutiny. For that reason, persistance pays off if you're a good guy. However, not in the sense of an endless pursuit, where you'll just end of pestering her. You need to close. So, if you're a good guy - a real catch - start acting like it. Show her what you want. It could mean getting her number, kissing her or getting her in bed. Depends on the context of course. It could also mean you cut the crap, and the bottom line is 'yes' or 'no'. Simply put: "Here's what I want. Take it or leave it". I can give you a few concrete examples: You're asking a girl for date: "Lets have lunch on wednesday. XX-place at 12 o'clock" "Gosh, I can't - i'm too busy" "That's cool, I understand you're busy, but I want to have lunch with you. Check you're schedule and i'll get back to you next week" Still no room in her schedule and no alternative suggestions? Drop her. Otherwise, great - you have a date. Trying to get the girls number: "You seem like an interesting person, i'd like to get you know you better. Here, give me your number" "I don't want to be rude, but I can't..." "You're not rude..." "Naawww!" "Are you married?" "No..." "Do you have a boyfriend?" "No..." "Great, here - give me your number. It'll be the bestest coffee/lunch/dinner/gocart date you'll ever had!" Still not relenting? Give it up. Otherwise, great success! Not answering your texts or calls? "I'm doing X/Y/Z on saturday and i'd like you to join me. Be there or be square." (note: It's always good to show up with a concrete plan. Intead of "maybe we could..." you've already got it figured out - she just has to worry about wether to follow along or not). Still no answer? Delete her number. "Sorry, you're a nice guy but...". Drop her. She's on? Great success! That same philosophy can be applied to situations where she's not giving you any trouble. Quite often when women are dealing with clueless guys they're, metaphorically, holding up big neon signs saying "take me already!". I agree with Kevin that when a woman is really into you she will go to great lengths to get you. However, she will rarely do so directly. Something that frustrates both women and men. The men are thinking "what the bleep does she want!?" while the women are thinking "why the bleep isn't he doing anything!?". The sollution is simply to close. Ask her out, kiss her or bed her. Whatever is the most approriate for the situation. In those situations she's probably communicated interest in a million ways, while the man is oblivious to it. Or, in some case, too afraid to act. In such events, put everything on the line and just do it.

What do you like about your current job? Even if you dislike most of it, there must be some aspects you enjoy. What do you do for fun? What activities do you enjoy? What is it about them that you like?

I'd put it in two words: sexual intent. It means you make it clear that you're taking action to lead it towards sex, and that "just friends" is not on the agenda.

The problem is with the conclusion you draw from that premise. Values are discovered and judging people is something everyone has to learn. To seek out your own kind you have to discover what that is and learn to identify such people. No, people who form relationship don't necessarily match each other. There could be something that matches, or they could incorrectly think they match. Good people can get into bad relationship because they misjudge their partner or act on bad premises. An empty assertion. Nonsense. This is just like saying that smart people don't make mistakes, because if they were really smart they wouldn't have made the mistake in the first place.

Because of the physical differences. Size, strength, sexual organs. Where was she dominant? Why are Ayn Rand's ideas outdated?

What about Dagny's relatioship with Rearden? Or lets take a real example: I meet a lot of women. A few of them are good ones that I can really enjoy spending time with. However, unfortunately, the right one does not seem to be available. What would you suggest I do? I would not give up on a good thing just because it isn't completely satisfactory. I like to enjoy life to the fullest, and having a good woman in my life is very enjoyable. Years of loneliness is not. Better then to pursue the good ones in an honest fashion.

bluecherry: This is a bit off topic, but if you expect others to read such walls of text you really need to work on your writing skills. Frankly, your writing is terrible. Work on structure, simplicity and clarity.

It's a generalization, which holds true in most cases. My point is to leave room for the exceptions as well Dagny is a good example. She's in a relationship she knows wont last forever. She then meets John Galt, spends time with him, and falls for him. When she gets back she sorts things out with Rearden. Variations to that theme happen in the real world as well. There's nothing wrong with it and Dagny handled it honestly. If she hates it, I think that's her problem. I think the best thing a man can do is to set the tone, insist on direct communication and make it clear what you want and how you expect to be treated. It doesn't cost much time or energy. Either you get rejected or she changes her attitude towards you. And quite often, if you handle it well, she'll change completely. It may be true that romance is an enormous value for a woman(with the risk of sounding bitter it seems a lot of modern women are more interested in playing around). However, there's also an abundance of men who would like to get into her pants. When you first meet someone it's hard to set yourself apart from the others. She may have her doubts, for whatever reasons, or strange little hang-ups. She could, of course, just not be that into you. Or, she could have her walls up and feel abit ambiguous. You might just not be her Superman, yet. When you insist on direct communication you can quickly determine if it's a rejection or not.

Regarding trying to change someone... why? Why are you with that person in the first place? The way I see it, you either accept her as she is - warts and all - or you don't. You may grow together, or not. I see no trying to change the other person. I'm looking for someone I can love, not someone I can change until I love her.

You don't KNOW it's hopeless or something you'll never have. And that's one reason to bring it up and to adress the issue. That way you can quickly find out if it's a hopeless pursuit. Another reason could be that showing where you stand can make dealings with the other person easier. I say that last part because a lot of guys make the mistake of trying to befriend the woman they're romantically interested in, which can damage both the friendship and any romantic pursuit. What i'm trying to say is that it's best to simply make things very clear. After that, you can choose the best way to act. Many times it will be clear that it really is a hopeless pursuit. In fact, under most circumstances - when you're not really invested - it's best to forget about it right away(after all, if the woman you just met tells you she's already taken, I can't find a good reason to pursue her). There are exceptions, however. And in such cases, just make it clear what you want and see where it leads you. Prepare to get rejected, but... in rare cases, like a friend of mine, you may end up getting married. But, whatever you do, get there quickly. Don't waste time hopelessly dreaming of a woman you can't have. It's either yes or no. I'd like to add that this attitude has helped a lot in my relationships with women. And not just when I have shown romantic interest, but also friendship. When you adress topics like that it makes you easier to trust, and you give them the oppurtunity to set their own boundaries. I don't think so, but it's not really important what the ladies tell Ben Affleck. You CAN get things to work even if she's not that interested in the beginning. I'm not suggesting you should keep calling her forever or just hope that sooner or later she'll show up on a date. That's foolish and never works. All i'm saying is to get closure. Quickly. A while back I dated a girl who confessed that the only reason she returned my phone call was to apologize and let me off the hook(and no, I did not call her a dozen times - just once). However, when she called I was just my irresistably charming self, so she changed her mind. We dated for quite a while, until I dumped her. I don't care that much what she thinks of me - if i'm a Ben Affleck or the hunchback of notre dame. If I like her, I like to pursue her until I get rejected. And I try to make sure not to waste time. Plain and simple. Of course, as always, it needs to be put into context. If I just got her number I won't waste time calling her twice. Otherwise she might get a second chance to make up her mind.