KevinD

Don: I'm not saying that women are fragile creatures who can't handle arguments or debates, nor am I saying that arguments and debates cannot be of great value in certain contexts. I'm saying that arguments and debates are not romantic -- and that they serve no positive purpose in dating or in a relationship. You may think that your arguing and debating is not about trying to change her; that you're only attacking her ideas, not her as a person. But what you intend and the way your message is received are likely very, very different. We as men tend to be highly competitive with one another. It's one of the ways in which we bond: We jokingly insult each other, we wrestle and fight, we argue and debate -- about everything -- and it's not only not a big deal to us, we respect each other more afterward. It brings us closer together. This behavior is often mystifying to women. They don't do it with each other, and they sure as hell don't want us to do it with them. Whatever it is that's so important that you need to impress upon her, I guarantee it's not nearly as important in her eyes as how well you listen to and respect her words and opinion. Ladies, do you agree? I don't understand this statement at all. You can't learn from the other person if you accept that they are as they are? Of course there is a tremendous amount that we can learn from a romantic relationship. But there's a difference between what can be learned and what can be taught. Megan: I'm a little confused about what you're asking. I think that neither men nor women should try to change each other. It's one of the few truly "uni-sex" principles which I would say applies equally to men and women. How do you see it?

If by "love" you mean to experience strong feelings of romantic-sexual attraction, haven't you already answered your own question? Now, whether or not a happy & successful relationship between you and someone else is possible is another question -- one which is really impossible for a third party to answer. For all I know, this girl could merely be repeating what she heard some knuckleheaded teacher tell her. She might be confused about her conscious values and convictions, but still live quite rationally. (At the same time, you could have a girl who has memorized Galt's Speech, and whose life is a disaster.) But let's say that this girl does in fact have some real problems. You feel attracted to her. So what? Men -- particularly young men -- tend to experience romantic attraction as all-or-nothing. A guy sees a woman he's attracted to and he feels an immediate, overpowering desire for her. He wants to have her baby, so to speak. Women usually do much better in this respect. They tend to be much more aware of the degrees of attraction, and the different varieties of attractions. (Which, incidentally, makes it very uncomfortable for a woman who is out with a guy who she feels she barely knows, yet he's ga-ga over her -- and is acting accordingly.) I think that part of growing into maturity as a man is becoming more refined in your feelings of attraction; of learning how to enjoy a wide range of attractions to different women and not getting bent out of shape about them. I doubt that, whatever this girl's problems, she is totally unattractive. OK, so she's damn cute. You're a man, you're going to respond to that. I've written a "part 2" to this post, but am posting it in the Miscellaneous section so as not to get too far off-topic. See: Response to a Question about Dating & Love

This is a personal message I wrote to Aspiring Objectivist, in response to a situation he brought up in a thread titled "Can You Love Who You Can't Truly Respect?" With his permission, I am posting it here, because it might be of interest and value to others. I agree with MisterSwig that her statement is a line. It always is. One thing you need to know about women is that they do not reject you directly. There is always some "reason," some excuse offered. She turns down the date not because she's not attracted to you, but because she has a class that night, or she's working late, or she's just getting out of a relationship and she needs time to herself, etc... She says these things in part because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings. A noble motive, perhaps, though it usually just ends up confusing us men and giving us false hope. Now, you're 16; still young, but definitely not a kid anymore. At some point you're going to have to make a choice: you're either dating a woman, or she's a friend. As a strong, confident, romantic man, you cannot allow yourself to have ambiguous relationships with women. You have to decide early on whether you're interested in a woman; whether or not, generally speaking, she's your "type." If she is, you date her. You request her phone number, you ask her out, and you take her out on a date. If she's not interested, for whatever reason, fine. Move on to the next candidate. You don't become bosom buddies and hope that, somehow, the friendship will transform into a torrid love affair. I know you're confused about this girl, and you're not sure if you want a relationship with her. But your statements indicate a certain attitude which is very mistaken, yet very common among sensitive and intelligent men -- one which is terribly a-romantic, which women find enormously unattractive, and which brings men nothing but misery. Especially disturbing is your statement about how you have been so "open" with this girl about your feelings for her. A lot of guys think that a romantic relationship begins with a confession of feelings. It might for Ross on Friends, but in actual reality, it doesn't work that way. Be very careful with the "sharing of convictions." It's extremely easy, if you're expressing views which conflict with her's, to make a woman feel like you're attacking her personally. It's a terrible turn-off, yet guys do it all the time. If she expresses opinions that you disagree with, listen to her, and try to elicit her core values which underlie her position. Then, later on, decide if what you've observed is so out of line as to be a dealbreaker. If it is, then you don't date her anymore. If not, then you accept it about her and you never ever argue about it. People in relationships come "as-is." You must never try to change the other person in any way, or even appear to be trying to change them. You must never argue or debate or try to make her "see the light" on any subject, ever, even if you know you're right. You wouldn't like it if a woman did something that made you feel like you're not good enough for her -- yet -- and that she can't accept and love you for who you are. And believe me, women are ten times more sensitive than men in this respect. All right, enough abuse. You're to be commended for your willingness to consider important personal issues in so thoughtful and intelligent a manner. Most guys your age are wrestling with questions such as why the beer isn't coming out of the keg or whether they'll "score" on their date tonight. Keep on using your mind, don't beat yourself up over your feelings, and enjoy the process of dating and love. Before too long the rational women will be seeking you out.

Thanks for the good words. Regarding the online petition: Initially, it was to be a petition for women to sign, as a kind of publicity stunt. But I decided that this tactic might be misleading, since publishers are really only interested in book sales (and not whether a book is "needed"). So it's now open to anyone who wants to declare that they would buy a book of this kind. It's a "petition" because everyone has a guestbook these days, and I always like to be just a little shocking.

Actually, Sherlock Holmes only used cocaine when he had no crimes to solve. In The Sign of Four, he famously responded to Watson's reproach for using the drug: "'My mind,' he said, 'rebels at stagnation. Give me problems, give me work, give me the most abstruse cryptogram or the most intricate analysis, and I am in my own proper atmosphere. I can dispense then with artificial stimulants. But I abhor the dull routine of existence. I crave for mental exaltation.'" And a little later: "[Watson said:] 'Would you think me impertinent if I were to put your theories to a more severe test?' "'On the contrary,' [Holmes] answered, 'it would prevent me from taking a second dose of cocaine.'"

What is the nature of your interaction with her? Are you dating? "Just friends?" Can you be more specific as to the kinds of assertions you are making? Are you trying to talk philosophy with her? Could it be that she just isn't interested in discussing what you're bringing up? What exactly is the problem here? Are you confused as to to whether you should pursue/continue a relationship with her? How does she feel about *you*?

From Leonard Peikoff's essay "Fact and Value," available at www.aynrand.org: "'Objectivism' is the name of Ayn Rand's achievement. Anyone else's interpretation or development of her ideas, my own work emphatically included, is precisely that: an interpretation or development, which may or may not be logically consistent with what she wrote. In regard to the consistency of any such derivative work, each man must reach his own verdict, by weighing all the relevant evidence."

A few questions for you: 1. How do you know her? 2. What are some examples of her evasions? 3. How old are you?

A valuable & much misunderstood topic... You might be interested in this website for a book I'm writing: The Romantic Man To quote from the Thesis & Themes section of the website: "At the core of the book's thesis is a view of the nature of masculinity and femininity -- a perspective on men, women, and their relationship to each other that has its roots in the Romantic era, and was given explicit identification in the 20th century by Objectivist philosopher Ayn Rand. "This view, particularly Miss Rand's theory of feminine hero-worship, is essential to a full understanding of the nature of romantic love, and unlocks many of the apparent mysteries surrounding women that have confounded men throughout the ages. "Though she powerfully dramatized this concept in her novels, Miss Rand never gave a full, systematic presentation of her views on romantic love: Discussion of hero-worship and its implications has thus far been confined mostly to brief comments made in essays and question-and-answer periods. "It's a concept which is too important -- and too potent -- to remain obscure. THE ROMANTIC MAN will define exactly what hero-worship is -- what it means in conceptual and concrete terms -- and will illustrate in precise, practical, real-life examples how a clear grasp of this idea is crucial to a man's long-range romantic success." Best, Kevin Delaney