SD26

Agreed. I believe that those programs are what attract unproductive illegal immigrants. It is the result of the program.

I don't find any reference I made to children in my posts. As for the government, if there was no one asking for social services, or those that benefit from "giving" them, there wouldn't be any. There are other opportunities where individuals are free to donate money, food, time, and other things to support individuals with various issues. And that is their right to do so. Income taxes and the like reduce that choice of individuals to make that decision for themselves.

Jobless in an "objective" world would allow them to just drift out of existence then, right? However, in a "socially conscious" state, the state would provide be taking money from others and give to them. If the new "host" state for the parasitic immigrant has better "benefits", they won't leave, will they? The US system rewards illegal immigration with many benefits. Much more than some host countries. That IS a violation of the rights of those that pay for that socialization.

Ok, so what is the basis? Certainly the basis of immigration would be that immigants work. They are productive. However, there are many examples where they are using the socialized systems of the government (reducing the freedom of men) and committing volent crimes(individual opportunities against the freedom of men). In the end, I fail to recognize where opening borders will end the housing glut. How does that follow the other?

You state that they should drain upon those that produce. If production is a basic freedom, you advocate them using the freedoms that the current government does not protect. Why?

So, based on the concept of rights and pre-existing rights, are we talking about the rule of law? Thus, illegal immigration is, well, illegal. Prisons do have a higher percentage of illegal immigrants that have commited violent crimes, in addition to their illegal "status". Certainly, they can speak whatever language, but the logic of that was not the route that millions of other prior and current immigrants that recognize the logic in using English as the language of trade in this country...not to mention other parts of the world that regularly use English as their language of business.

Well, in the end, I think Rush is certainly free to make his own decisions on what he believes regardless of his complete or lack of complete following of any movement...isn't that being part of a collective in that one would be ostricized by a group? Entertainment? Yes. Kernels of truth? Certainly. Philosopher? Don't think so. Political leader? Not at all. Why should he want to be? He makes very good money, and, at a moment of his own, choosing, he could decide to leave what he's done and achieved for himself. And that could only have been done in this country. He has no need to spew anything to get into office. He hammers a lot of people on both "aisles" of the political spectrum.

And into things. If everyone had one kind of car, there would be nothing extra or more to get. Those with more cash can look to get a steak, a bigger car, a pool, and so on. Those all lead to jobs, more development, more investment, and so on. Those that have the means will look for the newest cool thing, if they so desire. LCD TV's, BlueRay, etc. None of that stuff will be cheap initially. As people make more money, they need people to do other things as their individual value of time increases. If your time is worth $100 an hour, mowing the lawn is not in your interest. If you make $10 a hour, hey, mow the lawn to save money.

I'd twist that a bit. There's good and bad everywhere. But if they are criminals or on welfare, out. Got to produce for themselves. I think the lack of English by some is a recognition that the trader aspect of production in this country is being lost and that we're government slanted toward continued socialism.

Well, when does tax money actually give it's money back plus interest to those who produced the taxable incomes in the first place? It's a burden, period. If I choose to give to a program for the development of a workers skills or research or to teachers for my kids...I am choosing that based on my recognition of value. That's different than a tax. How much effort should I produce currently to generate more taxing opportunities for "those that know better"?

I understand and agree with your statement above. I think the valid point that Capitalism Forever is trying to raise is that there are immigrants that aren't in the "trading" process. They are looters of the socialist practices that the government, which should be sworn to protecting our freedoms, had put in place for the common good. So, yes, Mr A buy's Mr B's house. Great for everyone, including Mr C. If Mr D arrives and uses schools, medical, and other opportunities as a part of public good rather than being a trader...then there is a problem. Then A, B, & C pay to support that "common good". No accountability, not a good investment. Welfare.

True, true. I think racing was something that didn't come easy to me. It was hard from the start. Actually, it was intimidating. I race motorcycles on road courses. There's the physical speed and then the actual risk when you do hit the ground. Yes, you come prepared, but it's certainly different from a lot of things that one can do. After my first race weekend, I was literally sick to my stomach. And I had to decide right there if I wanted to continue on. Over twenty years later, I'm still here. It's multifaceted too. One starts at one level. You move up based on some kind of arbitrary levels of achievement. You can do that by just winning outright, or doing it a little slower gaining a bit more knowledge. A deep set of pockets will allow one to throw away bikes end over end and learn from mistakes. I really had to watch more of what I did so I could continue. I raced in national championship event regularly for some time. I pulled back away from that because of cost commitments, started a school, and I actively raced vintage motorcycles for some individuals. The vintage bikes were somewhat irritating at times because of the handling issues that they had. We did really well, and I retained a lot of memories of what the bikes did. That retention was more valuable later as I would begin to understand why those things happened. I could actually make changes to overcome some of those issues on those bikes. I think when you line up on a grid, things are a little more like one might like it to be. Everyone is trying to get the same piece of real estate, based on the time one might have or might not put into the bike in gadgetry, a rider, or the knowledge of past bikes in just knowing better how to generate leverage to make putting down fast laps easier. Sure, there might be a pretty talented IT guy with a lot of disposable income to throw at a bike, but that often isn't a very good regular replacement for knowledge and so on. A good friend of mine from the national championship stuff was capable enough to race motorcycles to pay for his car racing career. I asked him, "Hey, which is more fun: cars or bikes." He was doing the Busch NASCAR Northeast stuff. He said in his dry Boston accent, "Cars." I looked away, and nodded slowly. Then he added, "But bikes are more exhilarating. There's nothing like trying to hold the throttle wide open in sixth gear into the "Gravity Cavity" with the bike shaking and wobbling underneath you." I agreed. The next year, I had to qualify in the damp on non rain tires in Minnesota. That's just not a feeling that makes you comfortable as there is a lot of additional risk that can put you down. The track in Minnesota was fast. Anyway, Turn Two is a very flat, fast corner. It's 120MPH with you knee on the ground in the dry. The wet meant that we were going to go slower as we had to: no traction. I went out immediately during the session to try and put down some times quickly before it got worse. In the end, you're in control. Things are very focused and finite. You might move your head a particular way to try and help the bike hook up a bit better. Each time I went into turn two the front tire would loose traction and try to fold under to crash, but I'd open up the throttle which would pick that up and get the rear tire spinning. It's not spinning completely sideways like a car spinning around in a snow covered parking lot, but it's enough that the speed of the tire is faster than your ground speed and you're steering the bike around a little differently as a result. I was able to do that lap after lap. Qualified pretty well, and it was a nice kind of "controlled terror"...LOL! Few things seem to be as satisfying. I've worked at a few different places. Some good some bad. Many have been opportunities of "underemployment" to allow me the opportunities to continue racing. I taught a school for fifteen years too. In August, I decided that the business wasn't worth my time because of some of the political issues with individuals and groups. There were others that devalued the market also. A multi time world champion had a school up until this year, and he skipped town on his sponsor, Honda, his instructors and so on. Potentially for similar reasons, the devaluation of the market and so on. Racing is just that one kind of constant to me. I'm looking for a job currently to fill the time right now. Something where I can potentially place some value into someone else's business. We'll see. I'm kind of picky. LOL! LOL! Yeah, I suppose that there are lots of reasons to leave it.

Honestly, it sounds reasonable. I know I've been involved in business where we've all that the same direction, and the journey to the agreed destination certainly develops into an incredible conflict. Those of honesty, integrity, means to an end, etc. Appears that you have a good start of an idea, I'd say.

Racing is a competition. A struggle. It's not fair, and sometimes it's about personal victories because of machinery, genetics, age, etc.

Agreed. No mention of God in the US Constitution. But the context that God isn't there is important. Previously, power to monarchs came from God. Under the US Constitution, the power came from the people. A very dynamic change. Power was no longer mystical, it was logical and born out of the power from citizens. As for Christmas, what is there to argue? Individuals should have freedom, right? And from Ben Stein...I think that puts some of the alienation into perspective. Regardless, I don't believe there is a right to be not offended.

Agreed. It is pretty straight forward. My minor in college was Philosophy. So, throwing books against the floor with some was a regular occurance. LOL! I wanted to double major, but I just wanted out...to go racing... Thanks for the welcome, John!

Hi, I'm new to the forum. My name is Dave, and I live in Wisconsin. Where to start? I guess how I got to the forum. In ways, I'm irritated by my path. The length really, and that is my responsibility. I've been involved in motorcycle racing for a really, really long time. So, it's kept me out of some "normal" employment. I am very lucky in that I have a very supportive family life. Basically, I sold of part of my business to another racer. While looking for work lately, which has been kind of a slow process, I decided that I needed to read Atlas Shrugged. As my story goes, it was probably nine or ten years that I was told by a fiercely independent business man that I should read it. It was more like I was asked if I read it, and he rolled his eyes and said I should read it. Just too many things happening like racing, kids, and other life events that kept me away from reading much of anything beyond industry magazines. Got it from the library, and I still have yet to finish it. Had to turn it in, so I bought a copy. I guess it all is pretty simple to me. I get it. I'm no expert, but I recognize the direction of Rand's philosophy. It hasn't found a job for me, but it has allowed me to take another evaluation of what I've done and what I'd like to do. I'm looking forward to finishing the book and listening to what others say on the board.

I completely agree with that statement. I'm in the motorcycle racing industry, and things have been a bit irritating as I can just "predict" the new marketing that comes each year. I don't plan on getting a new car until there's a reasonably priced diesel model available out there. There are some, but really few. Now we're back to regulation, the EPA, and the environmental religion...sorry if I'm ruffling feathers. As for guns, I though we were going to see some caseless ammunition designs, but I guess they are kind of dirty. Didn't work as well as they were thought to work in the real world. LOL! I think one ought to make sure the order is filled before the Inauguration. In some cases, hey, guns are as valuable as gold.

Exactly. Each according to their need? Before death and taxes, there has to be life and production. Excessive government beyond protection of freedom doesn't provide or necessarily represent life or production does it?

Advice? Go after what you're passionate about. Small arms? That's pretty cool, really.

Well, that would be for the public good, right? It's a religion, this consensus of environmental ideology.

Excellent! I agree. Hey, it's all for the public good, right?

Isn't Arizona starting to develop similar programs as California? It's always for "the public good". More control at the top, slaves at the bottom.

Yup, I realized that I was living in my own world with a lack of knowledge of someone's humor based on a book of philosophy...LOL! The father of a friend of mine had an advertising agency on that road. Seemed as though he was a very good capitalist. And thanks for the welcome!

Well, here's my first post. I'm new to AS myself. It's really a breath of fresh air to me, and I think it's given me some tools that I didn't have before, reinforced others. As I started reading "Who is John Galt?" in AS, I was pretty amused. Why? Well, I'm originally from Omaha, Nebraska. There is a John Galt Bouelevard there. Was really kind of a business park. Anyway, now having really gotten into AS, I think it can be used on occasion to break the ice a little bit between those that might have read Atlas Shrugged.