Do you have hard feelings towards your parents

[progressiveman1]

Looking back, I don't think either of my parents tried very hard to teach me how to make decisions. They were very passive when it came to teaching me values, and as a result from that I was very confused during my teenage years.

I'm bitter towards both my parents for similar but seperate reasons. My mom thinks decisons should mostly be based on what your approval will be from others- she's not much of a thinker. She forced me to go to church earlier and she never explained to me what a good man is. I feel less hostile towards my mom only because she doesn't even know the right values herself, so it makes sense that she wasn't more aggressive in teaching me how to live.

My dad, however, I now see has a stronger grasp of how to live a successful life. Although I don't agree with all his decisions, he understands that each person is responsible for himself and that he shouldn't make any sacrifices. He knows that a strong work ethic is key to being happy and he makes most of his decisions using logic and reason. I admit, even though our relationship is finally coming together somewhat, I always feel anger towards him whenever I think about how he raised me. He was so passive in teaching me any values, he never made it clear to me what a successful man is. In fact, the only time he ever became aggressive with me was when he told me to get off his precious lawn, or to stop being physically active in the house, or aggrevating me when I made a mistake without explaining how to correct it. His lack of dedication to teach me the right values seems like an unforgivable act and I will never fully respect him because of it.

The only reason I know how to live my life now is because I happen by complete chance to find out about Ayn Rand. That aggrevates me when parents neglect their responsibility as parents and their kids wind up utterly confused.

Does anybody feel the same way towards their parents?

[~Sophia~]

I feel less hostile towards my mom only because she doesn't even know the right values herself, so it makes sense that she wasn't more aggressive in teaching me how to live.

If that is the case (and it is not unusual) why would you think your mom was not trying very hard? Maybe she did the best she knew how.

Does anybody feel the same way towards their parents?

I don't. Whatever I think my parents did not do very well - I don't think it was out of lack of care or neglect but rather lack of knowledge. I don't think it would be fare to compare my parent's understanding of values to that of Ayn Rand.

This is not exactly that same but I had a conversation with my mother few years ago, after I had my own child - after she saw how I was/am with my son. She told me: "I know I was not as affectionate with you and your sister as your dad was but I just was not raised that way, my own parents were distant toward me so it did not come naturally to me with my own children."

Today my mother expects of me, as a parent, a LOT more than she ever provided herself. It is not less than I expect of myself, my point is that her understanding has improved and it shows. She often says: "I did not do it - but you should" or "but I am glad you are."

Edited September 28, 2007 by ~Sophia~

[aequalsa]

My dad, however, I now see has a stronger grasp of how to live a successful life. Although I don't agree with all his decisions, he understands that each person is responsible for himself and that he shouldn't make any sacrifices. He knows that a strong work ethic is key to being happy and he makes most of his decisions using logic and reason. I admit, even though our relationship is finally coming together somewhat, I always feel anger towards him whenever I think about how he raised me. He was so passive in teaching me any values, he never made it clear to me what a successful man is. In fact, the only time he ever became aggressive with me was when he told me to get off his precious lawn, or to stop being physically active in the house, or aggrevating me when I made a mistake without explaining how to correct it. His lack of dedication to teach me the right values seems like an unforgivable act and I will never fully respect him because of it.

A lot of men are not particularly good at explaining themselves verbally. They tend to be more action oriented and think "actions speak louder then words". It sounds like he may have helped guide you in some ways by being a good example, even if he could not always explain it.

Also there is a great deal of benefit in allowing an individual to learn some things experientially. Being spoon fed information without possessing the firsthand knowledge necessary to maintain context can be counterproductive.

I of course don't know your whole situation but if you like yourself then something had to have happened right to allow you to develop into the sort of person that you respect. In this way even completely neglectful parents can be far more beneficial to a young mind then say an authoritarian or indulgent parent. An Authoritative type parent is thought to be ideal currently, but the more permissive type that you seem to have are a second best. They at least allow reality to shape the child in a way that conforms to it.

[JMeganSnow]

I have mixed feelings about my parents. I tried Sophia's "they didn't know better" line for a while and I realized that, no, my parents DID know better they just didn't do anything about it. I could have dealt easily with just about anything other than hypocrisy.

Telling your children that you love them/are proud of them and then *acting* like you hate and despise them and the TV/computer/car/lawn are more important than they are is not going to endear you to them. If you want to take it one step further, complain after years of this kind of treatment that they never "spend time with you" or tell them you have "fond memories" of them. Bleh.

I suspect my parents aren't really evil, but they aren't really good either, and every time I visit them I care less about doing it again. They really aren't a part of my life and this suits me fine.

[K-Mac]

My husband has a weird relationship with his parents. (At least I perceive it as weird since it's so different than my relationship with my parents.) They were only 15 when they had him, they were forced to marry, and of course, less than a year later, divorced. They were both pretty screwed up their whole lives. I think they were both divorced three times over or so and my husband basically was raised by his grandmother and himself. He has made peace with both of his parents and thinks they both did the best they could at the time.

The sad thing is, many people do not learn from their parent's mistakes and seem destined to repeat them. My husband's sister got pregnant early on and out of wedlock and has been divorced 3 times since. One of the reasons I'm currently divorcing my husband is because he has a drinking problem, like his father. Sad really.

I think the trick is realizing what your parents mean to you, or don't mean, and finding peace with it. It's not as though our folks get "do overs" with parenting, so the only thing we can do with our pasts is learn from them and move on.

[Chops]

The only degree of resentment I hold toward my parents is them forcing me through 11 years of Religion class and forcing me to get confirmed with the Catholic Church, and I believe this is because my mom didn't want to dissappoint her mother. I'm now a completely open and outspoken atheist with them, and we get into little debates here and there (granted my parents aren't intellectuals).

Other than that bit (and my parents certainly aren't scary fundie types), I'd say that my upbringing was exactly the kind of upbringing I should have had. They weren't overly controlling. My relationship with them is akin to a relationship with a friend. I can tell them pretty much anything, and they can do the same with me. I'd say I'm pretty lucky to have parents like that.

[Ender]

My parents were nowhere near perfect, but I don't hold any resentment towards them. It is my opinion that our lives are the result of the choices WE make, not of outside influences. You have a responsibility to yourself to think critically about ideas presented to you, and make your own decision. Blaming your parents for a bad situation you're in is simply an attempt at evading responsibility for whatever actions put you where you are now.

[aequalsa]

My parents were nowhere near perfect, but I don't hold any resentment towards them. It is my opinion that our lives are the result of the choices WE make, not of outside influences. You have a responsibility to yourself to think critically about ideas presented to you, and make your own decision. Blaming your parents for a bad situation you're in is simply an attempt at evading responsibility for whatever actions put you where you are now.

This works ok when you're 30 but not so well when you are 3. Parents have a great deal of control over the direction and distance children go in life. Where they begin will give a reasonably accurate prediction of where they end. I have some difficulty blaming some Rwandan's poverty on poor decisions he made when he was brought up by illiterate parents in a hut. The credit or blame we give to people should be based on what they did with what they had. To give them full credit for every thing they have or don't, achieve or don't. is as unjust to the person at the top as it is to the person at the bottom.

Certainly people have freewill but it always has context and that context is not necessarily under their own control.

[Ender]

This works ok when you're 30 but not so well when you are 3.

I agree with that, I was working on the assumption that we are all independent adults here. I probably should have made that clear at the beginning.

I have some difficulty blaming some Rwandan's poverty on poor decisions he made when he was brought up by illiterate parents in a hut.

I can't agree with this. The reason Rwanda, and other "underprivileged" cultures, exist in poverty is because their people choose to live a primitive lifestyle based on ancient mythologies, tribal customs, and morally bankrupt philosophies. If your hypothetical Rwandan chooses to pursue an education and abandon the primitive lifestyle he was raised in, he is capable of creating a better life for himself. If he chooses to accept the status quo, he has nobody to blame but himself. America, a nation built by people who chose to abandon the old ways of their homelands and build something better, is proof of that.

[TheEgoist]

As a young person who still lives with his parents, I can only thank them for at least having the mercy of allowing me to live in their house past my 18th birthday. They've certainly showed more patience than I ever would.

I have, of course, felt very hostile towards my parents as anyone does. Much more with my father, who I can only imagine cheated on my mother a few times and didn't spend a lot of time at home. He did, however, bring some well needed income into the house and tried to be as much of a father as he could in his older years. He's very productive and has a strong work ethic.

My mom is a bit imbalanced and her mood can literally swing from the most loving human being to psychotic bitch. But again, she was there for me financially and I never cared to use my parents as a toilet for my deeper emotions, but I do know when I was going through a rough stage of insomnia/depression they were willing to listen.

I can't feel indignant to people who have given so much to me.

[KendallJ]

Sorry guys, I'm even more on the side of Ender than most here.

We are all self-made souls. If someone is screwed up to the point of not being able to function as an adult, then that is a tragedy. However, that is not really what we're talking about. Some people here seem a bit bitter about not getting the "proper" start they deserved. But you're functioning, you're able to introspect and see that, and you're able to do something about it. That in my book puts you among the very fortunate in life. It doesn't matter if your parents tried their best or didn't.

Good God, I sound like my grandfather explaining why the only reason I have the life I do and not a peasant's life is because I was born in America. But in a way, that's the issue. A is A, What you started with in life may not have been entirely under your control, but for most people, what they do from here on out is.

Maybe it's the just the parent in me speaking, but if you walk the other side you have a much better appreciation for what it was like for your parents.

[Moebius]

My parents were self-made entrepreneurs and for a period politicians, and growing up I spent very little time with them. My childhood was spent mostly in the library or on the basketball court by myself. At twelve I left to live in the United States with relatives, and other than summers I more or less talked to my parents about once a week over the phone. Upon graduating high school, I had planned to go to a design school. Instead my parents forced me to major either in economics or medicine or else cut me off financially. For a long time I felt neglected, and throughout high school and college I was extremely rebellious and angry. I got into a lot of trouble when I was younger that in retrospect was really just an attempt to get my parent's attention.

But when I was 22, I took a year off of school and spent it just hanging out with my family, and I realized that they have actually taught me a lot of positive values -- even if they never sat down to spell it out to me. Hard work, logical thinking, rational evaluations of situations, how to lead on and on. I grew up really idolizing my dad, and I think in a lot of ways I gained those values simply by watching him, studying his actions, and watching how others react around him. The fact is there was a lot I could have learned if I wasn't so busy shutting my eyes and brooding. That's what I am trying to do nowadays -- taking what my parents did right to heart and try to make it my own.

[aequalsa]

I can't agree with this. The reason Rwanda, and other "underprivileged" cultures, exist in poverty is because their people choose to live a primitive lifestyle based on ancient mythologies, tribal customs, and morally bankrupt philosophies. If your hypothetical Rwandan chooses to pursue an education and abandon the primitive lifestyle he was raised in, he is capable of creating a better life for himself. If he chooses to accept the status quo, he has nobody to blame but himself. America, a nation built by people who chose to abandon the old ways of their homelands and build something better, is proof of that.

I am not referring here to rwandans, generally. Just one specifically who was too busy being chased by tutsis with Ak-47's to choose to get an education. Freewill doesn't exist in a vacuum. Choices are made out of a certain set of available options for any particular individual.

There is a well known psychological tendency for wealthy people to believe they have earned all of what they have regardless of inheritance and a similar tendency for poor people to believe they were victims of fate regardless of mistakes they made. I propose that the answer is somewhere between. That we are born in circumstances that provide both benefits and drawbacks and our character is best estimated by what we choose to do keeping those perimeters in mind.

It takes some introspection, but I think we ought to be careful not to take credit or blame for what we were born into(including beneficial cultures) and only for those things we accomplish through our own effort. Without realizing that differentiation, our self-esteem and pride has all of the stability of a house of cards.

[progressiveman1]

I have mixed feelings about my parents. I tried Sophia's "they didn't know better" line for a while and I realized that, no, my parents DID know better they just didn't do anything about it.

Yeah, exactly. Why even have children if you're not even going to give it the proper effort? My parents never tried to teach me anything. If I made a mistake, they would just yell at me without giving an explanation on how to fix it. If I had homework I didn't feel like doing, they would do it and I would watch tv.

Other people have brought up individual responsibility. You can either understand individual responsibilty if it's taught to you or you learn it from personal experience. The only reason I understand it now is because I read Rand's books and then I fully understood it after I moved out of my parents house and supported myself, not relying on anybody else any longer. There are ways for parents to teach their kids individual responsibility, but my parents chose not to put in the effort. That's unforgivable, although apologizing may sooth the anger a bit.

[progressiveman1]

But you're functioning, you're able to introspect and see that, and you're able to do something about it. That in my book puts you among the very fortunate in life. It doesn't matter if your parents tried their best or didn't.

Yes it does. I am this way now with no thanks to them. It was only by chance that I learned the proper values while my parents have had a lot of the knowledge the whole time I've been alive. Essentially, they watched me live in the world without trying to guide me in the right direction. Unforgivable.

Maybe it's the just the parent in me speaking, but if you walk the other side you have a much better appreciation for what it was like for your parents.

What's so hard about trying to teach values to your kids?

[Alessa36]

On Halloween night my children then 10 &12 wanted to go out and egg and shaving creme the neighborhood with their friends. Gangs of 12- 20 kids all dressed in black would run around like hoodlums throwing eggs and menacing everyone. I refused to let my children do this and explained about personal property and boundaries. I accompanied them from house to house and had on scary movies later at home. That night, One of the kids even shaving cremed me as I answered the door , to which I brought him home to his parents for repremanding. To my surprise they were mad at ME for not being understanding that these kids were just," Boys being boys " and having fun ! They said I kidnapped their son because I drove him in my car. I got no support from that parent or any other parent that night.

My son is still resentful about that night since he got flack in school, taunted and ridiculed. He thought I was wrong to bring that kid to his parents. He is 23 now. I tell him that boys parent should have taught him right from wrong.

In my defense, the next year long island police put a ban on selling eggs and creme to minors 2-3 weeks before halloween and will fine the parents of any kids caught behaving in that manner.

[TheEgoist]

On Halloween night my children then 10 &12 wanted to go out and egg and shaving creme the neighborhood with their friends. Gangs of 12- 20 kids all dressed in black would run around like hoodlums throwing eggs and menacing everyone. I refused to let my children do this and explained about personal property and boundaries. I accompanied them from house to house and had on scary movies later at home. That night, One of the kids even shaving cremed me as I answered the door , to which I brought him home to his parents for repremanding. To my surprise they were mad at ME for not being understanding that these kids were just," Boys being boys " and having fun ! They said I kidnapped their son because I drove him in my car. I got no support from that parent or any other parent that night.

My son is still resentful about that night since he got flack in school, taunted and ridiculed. He thought I was wrong to bring that kid to his parents. He is 23 now. I tell him that boys parent should have taught him right from wrong.

In my defense, the next year long island police put a ban on selling eggs and creme to minors 2-3 weeks before halloween and will fine the parents of any kids caught behaving in that manner.

I think my parents love my loner lifestyle... No mischief such as this. No drugs ( Not anymore anyway ). No crazy nights with girls.

I think any kid, however, would feel resentment for their parents not letting them take part in what their class mates consider " Fun ". I know I never really got the whole destruction of houses on Christmas. I was more concerned with gorging myself on candy. I still am.

[Mammon]

A little off the point, but for of us with bad parents, do you feel like not having kids because of it?

I really don't want kids. Unless it was with the absolutly right person and even then, I'd wait a long time before I had kids.

[TheEgoist]

I don't desire children whatsoever, especially now. It's more because I simply don't want dependents like that. My ideal life is one left alone, perhaps with a couple close loved ones. It's not because I resent my parents. If I did, I'd probably HAVE kids and raise them better than my parents raised me.

[KendallJ]

Yes it does. I am this way now with no thanks to them. It was only by chance that I learned the proper values while my parents have had a lot of the knowledge the whole time I've been alive. Essentially, they watched me live in the world without trying to guide me in the right direction. Unforgivable.

Well, other than the fact that your assertion begs your original question, I am wondering what the status of that "unforgivabilty" of your parents is doing for you? That is, other than the ability to intellecutally evaluate and judge your parents behavior, what are you getting from the exercise? How is all the emotion you have in any way good for you? Do you think your parents owe you something more now?

What's so hard about trying to teach values to your kids?

Even the assertion of the existence of values is a conceptual leap some people don't make. Apparently there must be something difficult about it or there wouldn't be so many people who are raised without them. Unless of course you think that that's all due to sheer negligence.

[JMeganSnow]

Yeah, exactly. Why even have children if you're not even going to give it the proper effort? My parents never tried to teach me anything.

Dude, you're quoting me out of context. My only concern with my parents' previous behavior lies in determining what sort of relationship I want to have/should have now that I'm an adult. My adult situation, on the other hand, is the result of my choices and I don't blame my parents for that. Granted, I don't give them the credit for it, either.

[Robert J. Kolker]

..... snip a bit.....

Does anybody feel the same way towards their parents?

My Mom and Dad went to great troubles to teach me Right from Wrong. They were a bit neurotic, but I found their lessons quite valuable. They not only taught their ethics, they lived their ethics. They also encouraged me in all my intellectual pursuits. My Dad thought my passion for mathematics was way cool. My Mom instilled a love of science fiction. She had just about every issue of Amazing Stories and Fantastic Magazine ever published, which I read too. I grew up on her pulp and oatmeal

Bob Kolker

[JMeganSnow]

I grew up on her pulp and oatmeal

Oatmeal?

[Robert J. Kolker]

Oatmeal?

A hot breakfast cereal. Gruel. The pulp refers to the sci fi magazines which (at that time) were printed on cheap pulp paper. Very rough to the touch. Hence the term pulp-fiction.

Bob Kolker

[progressiveman1]

Dude, you're quoting me out of context.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it look like I was summarizing you. Those were my opinions.