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"Africentric" School

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dream_weaver,

Indeed, I did watch the video, "The Marva Collins Story." I thought it was excellent. If I understand your meaning, Mr Dayoleary is evading the philosophical premise of the law of identity. To be sure, if one wished to learn a foreign, ancient, or obscure numerical code, then said person should do at their own expense. The same could apply for anyone, or anyone's children, wishing to learn more about a culture lost to ancient times, or lost in value to the more dynamic market economies. If children are to receive a proper education, it would be one that prepares them for life in the mainstream of a modern market society. It is a crisis recognized by most that public schools in the US are not performing that task. I'm sure if you ask some people, they'd say, "we need more sports programs"; others would say, "we need more prayer and less Darwin"; others would say, "the same curriculum that benefits some of the children insults my child, and that is the excuse for his/her failure." In an open society, people are free to say what they wish, and believe it with all sincerity.

 

People may construct straw-man arguments and evade the facts of this crisis; in the meantime, the lights are dimming in Western Civilization.

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Hernan Dayoleary,

 We may have a point of common agreement,i.e. public schools could be gradually displaced in favor of private or home-schooling systems funded privately.

 

Your quote:

  " I am not suggesting afro-centric program is best for hispanic or non-african cultured peoples.  You are right, I say nothing of the other racial and cultural minorities groups because I don't pretend to be able to solve their problems.  I suspect though a hispanic would be best qualified to solve a hispanic cultural problem. Unlike Eurocentrism, afrocentrism does't claim to be able to solve the problems of cultures it may not fully understand.  You should ask the hispanics what education system works for them.  You are mistaken if you think I am arguing everyone should be forced into africentric schools the same way they are forced into eurocentric schools.  i do agree that would just be tantamount to a reversal of the racist eurocentrick system.  I don't advocate equality but rather equity."

 

You contradict yourself. Your entire argument focuses on your claim that Afro-centricism is the solution to a failing white-man's educational system. I don't know about Canada, but in the US, children are not forced to attend public schools, only that they received some approved standard of education. We are forced to pay for the public schools regardless, but that is an entirely different matter. The main contention of my argument: No one is forcing African-American children to attend Euro-centric American public schools. My solution: Enroll your children in the private school of your choice, or home school.

 

In my initial contribution to this thread, I specifically asked how your concept of Afro-centric education would benefit the US public schools system. If private schools are what you're advocating, then come right out and say it. Rather than answer the question, you threw out web-links that provided no such proof, insisted that I was incapable of understanding you, and generally dodged the matter of proving your argument. Furthermore, you repeat your claims that anyone not in agreement with you is "blind" (argument from intimidation), when it is you making the assumptions about the thought processes and beliefs of others. In addition, you pursue irrelevant arguments, such as:

1. The Ferguson/Michael Brown Controversy-after debating without sufficient knowledge of the facts, you plea ignorance. I suppose if Western-oriented school curriculum are void of the history behind the origins of mathematics and algebra, you will excuse that oversight just as easily. Teach it in history classes.

2. It is common knowledge that Moors are from Africa, just as the largest library in the Age of Antiquity was located in Alexandria, Egypt. No, I do not have a problem with that. But do you really believe that Aristotle was of African dissent? You need not answer; the digression from the main point would be all the more unnecessary.

3. The Rwandan Genocide-The French were not the ones who initiated the civil war, and you would have to provide much more proof that the French were directly responsible for the atrocities. Primarily, it was the Hutus and the Tutsis wielding the machetes and raping children. I suppose if you wished to deny the facts, you could say just as easily argue that the French collaborators were responsible for the deaths of six millions Jews between 1940-1944. But it wouldn't make it true.

 

So, please spare us the straw-man arguments, and I will spare you the unnecessary explanation that people are not apples and coconuts. People are sentient beings; they have independence of thought, and volition of action. If you wish to concede that "Afro-centrification" of US public schools is neither necessary nor desirable, then we could move on, and possibly take up those other topics on a different thread. But honestly, I don't really care about those other topics, while I do care about education in America. People can revise history to any degree of vantage point they wish. And then, publish the book with all of the supporting arguments. If you feel as strongly about this subject as your passion for insulting other suggests, perhaps you, Mr Dayoleary, should do exactly that. In the end, the student or scholar may judge the facts objectively, and make use of them accordingly. There is only one truth, but many means as to its discovery.

 

P.S: To dream-weaver,

That reference to "Muy Bien" slid past me, but I do remember it after you pointed it out.

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Firstly, when Asian (particularly vietnamese refugees and early chinese immigrants) first started showing up here, they were not doing the best in these disciplines.

But they are doing the best now. Which proves that the US education system isn't designed to favor whites, and nullifies your complaints about euro-centric schools.

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But they are doing the best now. Which proves that the US education system isn't designed to favor whites, and nullifies your complaints about euro-centric schools.

 

No they aren't doing the best now.  And because someone performs well in spite of eurocentrism, doesn't prove eurocentrism is non-existent or not problematic nor its not designed in favour of whites.  Its entirely plausible that eurocentricks have simply performed worse in their own system than another group.  Your argumentation is along the lines that 1 exception proves an entire concept is invalid.  So 1 black senator in reconstruction proves jim crow america wasn't racist.  Or Obama proves America isn't racist.  Don't quit your dday job though, but keep trying.

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No they aren't doing the best now.  And because someone performs well in spite of eurocentrism, doesn't prove eurocentrism is non-existent or not problematic nor its not designed in favour of whites.  Its entirely plausible that eurocentricks have simply performed worse in their own system than another group.  Your argumentation is along the lines that 1 exception proves an entire concept is invalid.  So 1 black senator in reconstruction proves jim crow america wasn't racist.  Or Obama proves America isn't racist.  Don't quit your dday job though, but keep trying.

 

Education racial gap wide as ever according to NAEP

 

According to the graph in the article linked above, the average test scores are as follows:

 

In math:

Asian/Pacific Islander: 172 (#1)

White: 162 (#2)

 

In reading:

White: 297 (#1)

Asian/Pacific Islander: 296 (#2)

 

The ave gap is:

Asian/Pacific Islander: +4.5 over white

 

The rest of the races fall behind both.

 

Our system is apparently geared to Asians more than any other race.   Care to dispute the numbers?

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I guess we could agree the public school system should be displaced.

 

In canada the child has to be sent to school.  I think homeschooling is legal as an alternative.  Many parents don't have the time to create a whole curriculum in addition to working and monitor their kids.  If the issue was for me personally, it would be a non-issue.  You have not identified any contradiction.  And being forced to pay for public schools is not a different matter it is the same matter, eurocentrick education.  Why should non-whites pay for white only education and then bare the additional cost of home and or private school. Why not a fair system for all, ie. voucher style or speciality schools.  

 

Hernan Dayoleary,

 We may have a point of common agreement,i.e. public schools could be gradually displaced in favor of private or home-schooling systems funded privately.

 

Your quote:

  " I am not suggesting afro-centric program is best for hispanic or non-african cultured peoples.  You are right, I say nothing of the other racial and cultural minorities groups because I don't pretend to be able to solve their problems.  I suspect though a hispanic would be best qualified to solve a hispanic cultural problem. Unlike Eurocentrism, afrocentrism does't claim to be able to solve the problems of cultures it may not fully understand.  You should ask the hispanics what education system works for them.  You are mistaken if you think I am arguing everyone should be forced into africentric schools the same way they are forced into eurocentric schools.  i do agree that would just be tantamount to a reversal of the racist eurocentrick system.  I don't advocate equality but rather equity."

 

You contradict yourself. Your entire argument focuses on your claim that Afro-centricism is the solution to a failing white-man's educational system. I don't know about Canada, but in the US, children are not forced to attend public schools, only that they received some approved standard of education. We are forced to pay for the public schools regardless, but that is an entirely different matter. The main contention of my argument: No one is forcing African-American children to attend Euro-centric American public schools. My solution: Enroll your children in the private school of your choice, or home school.

 

In my initial contribution to this thread, I specifically asked how your concept of Afro-centric education would benefit the US public schools system. If private schools are what you're advocating, then come right out and say it. Rather than answer the question, you threw out web-links that provided no such proof, insisted that I was incapable of understanding you, and generally dodged the matter of proving your argument. Furthermore, you repeat your claims that anyone not in agreement with you is "blind" (argument from intimidation), when it is you making the assumptions about the thought processes and beliefs of others. In addition, you pursue irrelevant arguments, such as:

1. The Ferguson/Michael Brown Controversy-after debating without sufficient knowledge of the facts, you plea ignorance. I suppose if Western-oriented school curriculum are void of the history behind the origins of mathematics and algebra, you will excuse that oversight just as easily. Teach it in history classes.

2. It is common knowledge that Moors are from Africa, just as the largest library in the Age of Antiquity was located in Alexandria, Egypt. No, I do not have a problem with that. But do you really believe that Aristotle was of African dissent? You need not answer; the digression from the main point would be all the more unnecessary.

3. The Rwandan Genocide-The French were not the ones who initiated the civil war, and you would have to provide much more proof that the French were directly responsible for the atrocities. Primarily, it was the Hutus and the Tutsis wielding the machetes and raping children. I suppose if you wished to deny the facts, you could say just as easily argue that the French collaborators were responsible for the deaths of six millions Jews between 1940-1944. But it wouldn't make it true.

 

So, please spare us the straw-man arguments, and I will spare you the unnecessary explanation that people are not apples and coconuts. People are sentient beings; they have independence of thought, and volition of action. If you wish to concede that "Afro-centrification" of US public schools is neither necessary nor desirable, then we could move on, and possibly take up those other topics on a different thread. But honestly, I don't really care about those other topics, while I do care about education in America. People can revise history to any degree of vantage point they wish. And then, publish the book with all of the supporting arguments. If you feel as strongly about this subject as your passion for insulting other suggests, perhaps you, Mr Dayoleary, should do exactly that. In the end, the student or scholar may judge the facts objectively, and make use of them accordingly. There is only one truth, but many means as to its discovery.

 

P.S: To dream-weaver,

That reference to "Muy Bien" slid past me, but I do remember it after you pointed it out.

 

1. Your question is about us public schools systems in general.  The topic are about canada.  So we are kinding talking past each other here.  I have not argued from intimidation, I simply pointed out their inability to see the obvious.  If you cannot see 1+1= 2, what else do you call it?  I never started the mike brown thing it was the other poster who is likely a troll.  I did not plea ignorance, the truth is its all a speculative thing, none of us was there so it is useless to endlessly speculate.

 

2.  Yes I believe aristolte was indeed a black man based upon the accurate picture of him I have seen throughout museums not under eurocentrick history re-writing.  I have gone to museums where they put a white aristotle painting in the front and when me and the curator go to the back they have the original and he is portrayed as black.  And they say, it would create to much issues to put the black one on display even though it is the original because many people want to believe that aristotle and the ancient greeks were white, when they were not.

 

aristotle1.jpg

 

Arabic_aristotle.jpg

 

3.  If it is your claim the French did not do the Rwandan genocide, you need to demonstrate evidence which contradicts the findings of the courts and commissions who found precisely that.  The onus is not on me because it is common knowledge and I presented the links and evidence which shows the courts have already determined french guilt.  If you want to argue the opposite of what the courts and commissions have found and to oppose what the french have apologized for you better have some damn good evidence. Was there a court who found the french responsible for murdering 6 million jews?  And if they were collaborting with Hitler, I'd sure imagine they have quiet a bit of responisbility.

 

 

The only straw man have been the ones you are manufacturing in your straw factory, the argument you presented was indeed grossly invalid and non-sensical to compare apples and coconuts.  You made a terrible analogy and its not at all logical.  The fact that you are now admitting the analogy is bad, is only proof you know your own argument was bad.  Afrocentrism of public schools is a necessary and required step to improve the educational system.  After all if eurocentric education is so wonderful, why is the american educational system so deeply in the toilet.  If our system is so great, why aren't we number one?  Not only are non-whites doing poorly in the system, white students are doing poorly in the eurocentrick system and more of the same bad system won't fix America.  Ironically africentric school outperforms eurocentric schools here in toronto and canadian education system outranks american eurocentric system.  Just accept your 25 in the world educational model stinks.  Stop being so stubborn and hard of learning.  America isn't always number 1.

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Education racial gap wide as ever according to NAEP

 

According to the graph in the article linked above, the average test scores are as follows:

 

In math:

Asian/Pacific Islander: 172 (#1)

White: 162 (#2)

 

In reading:

White: 297 (#1)

Asian/Pacific Islander: 296 (#2)

 

The ave gap is:

Asian/Pacific Islander: +4.5 over white

 

The rest of the races fall behind both.

 

Our system is apparently geared to Asians more than any other race.   Care to dispute the numbers?

 

Without going very deeply into the study and its sampling methods, there'd be no way.  But I'd take the numbers at face value.  Its not the numbers I dispute.  Its the erroneous conclusion being drawn from them.  If Asians perform better at math, that doesn't mean the system is geared towards them.  

 

In fact it is much more likely that the eurocentric system when it was being designed simply didn't take in mind asians (ignored them due to their small numbers compared to the other groups after all jim crow wasn't directed at asians was it?) so it is not specifically constructed against them like the eurocentric system is constructed against blacks, hispanics and aboriginals in north america.

 

Although the eurocentrics are now getting clever and have in the last 20-30 years made things like "leadership", "Creativity" and other soft skills which whites are said to possess and asians are said to lack, as a large part of the university application process to weed out Asians.  This is why an Asian student needs higher sat than a white student to gain entrance to the same school.  But most whites don't want to have that conversation.  It doesn't fit the narrative of other races are lazy.

 

What I do find weird though, is many white posters obsessions with asian students on a topic that doesn't really involve them.  This is a discussion between whites and blacks and on those races and cultures.  Anything else is a red herring, a wild goose chase and a diversion. But its almost like they erroneously believe well if one minority beats a certain part of a racist system, then the system isn't racist.  So Hollywood is racist.  It has a long history of racism.  But by their logic because there are alot of blacks in Hollywood, then Hollywood isn't racist to Asians despite portraying them in a highly negative and racist manner?

 

Jeremy lin was called racial slurs by espn and several other media white companies.  He was overlooked because he was not white and because he was asian.  He was discriminated against.  Yet blacks in basketball generally don't face this type of discrimination. Because whites have a "positive" stereotype about blacks in this regard.  Would it be fair to conclude whites in basketball and sports are never racist? I doubt it.

 

What you are seeing is the dichotomy of white racism.  Where white racism says blacks are good athletes, blacks may enjoy a small advantage compared to OTHER MINORITIES.  And it may very well be the reverse occuring in the educational system.  Asians may enjoy a small advantage in this regard to OTHER MINORITIES.  The white teachers don't attack Asian students in the same way they attack other minorities because of white racial stereotypes about Asians.  Just like it'd be unlikely a black would be racially attacked by a white on the basketball court.  In otherwords, white racial stereotyping picks minorities as favourites in certain parts of society that the whites choose.   And in  some ways these can even become self fulfilling prophesies.  

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So... your point is that racism exists, and the reason is that schools are built for how Europeans learn but not for how Africans learn? Sure, racism exists, you're being the racist one by saying Europeans and Africans learn totally differently. It's like multi-culturalist racism, if such a thing is possible. "Races learn in different ways, and we should respect those differences as separate but equal".
 

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No they aren't doing the best now.  And because someone performs well in spite of eurocentrism, doesn't prove eurocentrism is non-existent or not problematic nor its not designed in favour of whites.

Yes they are doing the best now.

 

And it doesn't? If a race other than whites performs better than whites, that doesn't prove that the system isn't designed to favor whites? What would prove that the system isn't designed to favor whites then?

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The white teachers don't attack Asian students in the same way they attack other minorities because of white racial stereotypes about Asians.

 

What???????????????

 

You think white teachers are attacking their students?

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Hernan Dayoleary,

 So, who was it that compared people to fruit?


 

I disagree with you that Japanese people and Japanese culture does not appear in Japanese science textbooks.

And your comparison is flawed because you are trying to compare two different cultures as if they were alike. This is a comparison flaw.  Asian culture is not African culture, African culture is not asian culture.  Your flaw is like saying, Apples grow on trees(Asian is a minority culture), Coconuts grow on trees (African is a minority cultures).  Both are fruits (both are minority cultures).  Therefore if Apples grow in Canada (asians do well in eurocentric system) then coconuts should also grow well in canada (African cultured people should also do well in the eurocentric system).  Anyone can see why this is an extremely flawed argument.

 


 

If the white man's own solution to his own education system can't get the white man better than a 43% drop out rate, how is the white man's solution going to get blacks better than a 40% dropout rate.

 


 

The question I have is, if the white man's solutions can't even solve his own dropping out problems, how is the white man's solution going to solve black people's dropping out problems?

Not that this is the central point of my counter-argument, but your metaphor is your metaphor. And your reasoning speaks clearly as to your thinking. May I point out that people are not fruit, but some people are as near to vegetables, as they choose not to think. For we the living, thinking is a choice for our survival and pursuit of happiness. You, on the other hand, may choose to blame others for a perceived injustice, an injustice that may be prosecuted through the volumes of the past, but merits very little in the present, an age when anyone of any complexion, family history, or gender orientation has the same opportunity to achieve their goals, within reason and within the letter of the law. Thereby, you are not using reason, but rather an emotion generated by anger.

 

To the point that America suffer from a lagging school system, let's not belabor the point. I absolutely concede that fact. I believe it would be best to de-fund it gradually. Furthermore, it is an entirely separate problem from the curriculum and content presented in the schools, contrary to your claim. If you were to miraculously force American children to attend Afro-centric schools, it would be no less immoral than the present US school system.

 

There are so many wild accusations and contradictions you present in your posts that I could not pursue them all; the others are doing a fine job. Although, I can't help pausing for this one:

 

Aristotle, a Macedonian, was black? Pah-leez. Don't you suppose those mosaics and other illustrations were produced in the medieval Arab culture? Or do you think someone actually copied the images from photographs?

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Aristotle, a Macedonian, was black? Pah-leez. Don't you suppose those mosaics and other illustrations were produced in the medieval Arab culture? Or do you think someone actually copied the images from photographs?

Heheh, Aristotle was actually a descendant of an Atlantean, so he could build a camera to prove his blackness. He got annoyed in school because he went to a White school that didn't work with his Black mind. Nope, no Greeks ever had dark skin, they were all pale as a Russian in Siberia.

:whistle:

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Western education tends to stress learning. It has it's hippee side-lines, but nobody got academic Western brownie-points for being a hero there. Instead, "STEM" is put on a pedestal. 

In a word, the Western system mostly aspires to be Aristotlean.

 

But, if Aristotle was a African, what we have is really an afro-centric system already... we just don't know it. 

Seems like "problem solved".

PS: The British teach Shakespeare, not realizing that he is black too. The ideal they project for the highest point in literature is thus an Afro-centric one. Indeed, we probably all have so much to owe to African civilizations, that our ideals that we pretend are Western are truly African.

 

And, the bottom line is that the whole human species came out of Africa anyhow.... making us all African at our very root. So, all cultures are actually African. Q.E.D.

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Education of Minority Children by Thomas Sowell

Will Rogers once said that it was not ignorance that was so bad but, as he put it, "all the things we know that ain't so." Nowhere is that more true than in American education today, where fashions prevail and evidence is seldom asked or given. And nowhere does this do more harm than in the education of minority children.

 

The quest for esoteric methods of trying to educate these children proceeds as if such children had never been successfully educated before, when in fact there are concrete examples, both from history and from our own times, of schools that have been sucessful in educating children from low-income families and from minority families.  Yet the educational dogma of the day is that you simply cannot expect children who are not middle-class to do well on standardized tests, for all sorts of sociological and psychological reasons.

 

A good article showing how successful our so called 'Eurocentric' education of minority students can be.

 

More from the article:

None of these successful schools had a curriculum especially designed for blacks.  Most had some passing recognition of the children's backgrounds.  Dunbar High School, for example, was named for black poet Paul Laurence Dunbar and it set aside one day a year to commemorate Frederick Douglass, but its curriculum could hardly be called Afrocentric.  Throughout the 85 years of its academic success, it taught Latin.  In some of the early years, it taught Greek as well.  Its whole focus was on expanding the students' cultural horizons, not turning their minds inward.

 

 

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So... your point is that racism exists, and the reason is that schools are built for how Europeans learn but not for how Africans learn? Sure, racism exists, you're being the racist one by saying Europeans and Africans learn totally differently. It's like multi-culturalist racism, if such a thing is possible. "Races learn in different ways, and we should respect those differences as separate but equal".

 

 

I think we can all agree racism exist.

 

I am saying their are cultural differences between how european whites learn and african americans.

 

If different cultures learn differently, is it racist to point this out?  I doubt, it is no more racist to point out that white europeans prefer a certain style of education that suited their needs in the past but has since become archaic, than Africans, than it is to say Chinese and American students have different curriculum and learn in different ways.  Different cultures have different curricula and learn in different ways.

 

Sadly, your last comment is how many whites have come to view the world.  I already addressed the point of why color blindless is wrong and a more subtle form of racist ideology.  You can go back and read it, no need for me to repost.  Why is it so hard to respect people's differences rather than deny them?

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Hernan said:

 

If different cultures learn differently, is it racist to point this out?

 

 

"Culture" as you are using the term is an anti-concept. Individual people use different learning methods (for better or worse )and that has nothing to do with a non cognitive attribute such as race. You are smuggling in the nonsensical claim that social context determines the criteria-method for gaining knowledge. You are peddling the standard relativism championed by social constructivism.(even if you don't know it)

Edited by Plasmatic

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Yes they are doing the best now.

 

And it doesn't? If a race other than whites performs better than whites, that doesn't prove that the system isn't designed to favor whites? What would prove that the system isn't designed to favor whites then?

 

 

No they aren't.

 

According to U.S. Census Bureau data, in an analysis performed by the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, African immigrants here were more likely to be college educated than any other immigrant group. Not only that, but African immigrants are also more highly educated than any other native-born ethnic group including white Americans. The 48.9% of all African immigrants that have earned a college degree is slightly higher than the percentage of degreed Asian immigrants, twice the rate of native-born whites, and four times the rate of native-born African Americans.

Of the African-born population in the United States age 25 and older, 86.4% reported having a high school diploma or higher, compared with 78. 9% of Asian-born immigrants, and 76.5% of European-born immigrants, respectively. These figures contrast with 61.8% percent of the total foreign-born population. Immigrant groups in general tend to have higher high school graduation rates than the native-born general American population which averages about 70%

 

 

 

All this demonstrates is blacks outside the eurocentric system, black immigrants, outperform every other ethnic and racial group in schooling, which is no surprise.

 

 

I can rig a deck of cards so that a certain playing style will lose and I'd be more likely to win.  But if someone new with an unexpected playing style shows up, I cannot go back so easily and re-rig the deck to screw the new player.  This is what we are seeing in modern Americas.  The whites long ago tried to rig the deck against non-whites who were mainly aboriginals, blacks, hispanics.  But then when the card game was in full swing asians showed up to the table.  They couldn't very well just re-rig the entire deck.  Although, there is a very simple way that whites could screw over the vast majority of Asian students.  I've seen it done but don't want to give any ideas to any racist who might be reading this. Now the whites very well couldn't go and re-rig the entire deck infront of everyone openly anymore.  So they came up with affirmative action to keep white numbers a majority in the elite schools and use "Soft skills" like intellectual vitality and leadership potential to keep down the number of wins by the Asians.

 

If a race other than whites perform better than whites, despite white rigging the system in their own favour it simply mean the white effort was not entirely successful.  When you rig a deck of cards, its not to win every hand, its just to win most  of them. And I don't mean to say there is a big conspiracy and all whites are meeting in a big room and are in on this.  Most whites TODAY aren't even aware of this. It is about getting an unfair advantage and not competing on a level playing field.  A top poker player can still probably whip you on your own rigged deck.

 

It would be impossible to prove the system wasn't designed to favour whites, because this is what they were designed to do.  I do find it weird, how white people design things for whites, and then pretend as if these are designs that were meant to be universal.  If you go to an aboriginal university, you'd recognize it was built for aboriginals.  If you go to a chinese university you'd recognize it was design for chinese success.  If you go to a HCBU or Hispanic university you'd likely recognize it was designed for black and hispanic success.  But when we come to white schools and white school system established, designed, created and made for and by whites, suddenly you cannot see it anymore.  It is like you are blind to anything that might benefit you for being white.  And this is what is typically called white privilege.  A chinese person wouldn't be so folly as to pretend like a Chinese university was not designed for the success of chinese but was designed for "Everyone"

 

If you are going to demonstrate a system not designed to favour white cultures, you are going to have to show a system where the driving and predominant forces who created didn't do so for and by whites.

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Hernan said:

 

 

"Culture" as you are using the term is an anti-concept. Individual people use different learning methods (for better or worse )and that has nothing to do with a non cognitive attribute such as race. You are smuggling in the nonsensical claim that social context determines the criteria-method for gaining knowledge. You are peddling the standard relativism championed by social constructivism.(even if you don't know it)

 

Speak for your own kind and your own culture.  Maybe people in your highly individualistic westernized culture where you drop off your children in day care and your parents in old folks home and only care about yourselves and not your family feel that it is the individual only but no man is an island.  Really we are speaking of culture than race proper here. white culture, black culture.  Not entire races for the most part.

 

Americans strong Individualism is a social construct, so stop playing games.

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Education of Minority Children by Thomas Sowell

 

A good article showing how successful our so called 'Eurocentric' education of minority students can be.

 

More from the article:

 

 

Again, I  never said that you cannot have EXCEPTIONS.  I already agreed there can be exceptions to most general rules and that there are blacks who have and always had been exceptions to white general racism.  Heck there were black senators when whites were still rolling around the south and hanging blacks and dragging them through the streets more openly and the KKK was very powerful.  There were black congressmen when jim crow was the norm.  Doesn't change the facts that the nation was still racist.  Obama is black, did well in school went to harvard, doesn't change the problem with a eurocentric education system.

 

Even if the majority of black students outperformed whites, it still wouldn't fix eurocentric education and the problem.

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Western education tends to stress learning. It has it's hippee side-lines, but nobody got academic Western brownie-points for being a hero there. Instead, "STEM" is put on a pedestal. 

In a word, the Western system mostly aspires to be Aristotlean.

 

But, if Aristotle was a African, what we have is really an afro-centric system already... we just don't know it. 

Seems like "problem solved".

PS: The British teach Shakespeare, not realizing that he is black too. The ideal they project for the highest point in literature is thus an Afro-centric one. Indeed, we probably all have so much to owe to African civilizations, that our ideals that we pretend are Western are truly African.

 

And, the bottom line is that the whole human species came out of Africa anyhow.... making us all African at our very root. So, all cultures are actually African. Q.E.D.

 

This is not necessarily a bad take, the problem is the mainstream eurocentric curriculum denies this all.  They erase the blacks out the history books and replace black shakespeare with a white one, just to attack black culture and history.  The eurocentric and afrocentric should simply have their own seperate but equal curriculums and schools.

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Hernan said:

 

 

Speak for your own kind and your own culture.[...]Americans strong Individualism is a social construct, so stop playing games.

 

If only the social constructivist had the consistency Fayerabend did they could follow this to the logical conclusion that we are speaking different languages...(rejection of meaning invariance)...  

 

Objectivist pay attention to this irrationalism because it is more common than you think.

 

Individualism is a philosophy held by individuals.

Edited by Plasmatic

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What???????????????

 

You think white teachers are attacking their students?

 

Yup, they do it racially, psychologically, and thanks to cameras we are catching it more and more on tape

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfBario5H-I

 

I could go on and on, there is no more dangerous place for a black child to be than anywhere near a white teacher.  White teachers are statisitcally most like to attack and racially abuse black children.  Which is why black parents in canada have just left the white system in the dust and opened their own africentric school with black only teachers publicly funded.

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Your analysis is flawed.  I simply paralleled your previously flawed reasoning to demonstrate how flawed your reasoning is.  The fact you agree the reasoning was flawed simply demonstrates you now admit you were wrong.

 

Prove that afrocentric school would be no less immoral.

 

O yes the Arabs just loved blacks so much they decided to re-write the white man's history and repaint them selevetively as blacks.  HA HA HA, gimme another one.  You ignored that one mosaic was in greek and portrayed aristotle as black.  Speaking of which, what evidence do you have that Aristotle was not black?  Where did Aristotle write I am a white man?

Hernan Dayoleary,

 So, who was it that compared people to fruit?

Not that this is the central point of my counter-argument, but your metaphor is your metaphor. And your reasoning speaks clearly as to your thinking. May I point out that people are not fruit, but some people are as near to vegetables, as they choose not to think. For we the living, thinking is a choice for our survival and pursuit of happiness. You, on the other hand, may choose to blame others for a perceived injustice, an injustice that may be prosecuted through the volumes of the past, but merits very little in the present, an age when anyone of any complexion, family history, or gender orientation has the same opportunity to achieve their goals, within reason and within the letter of the law. Thereby, you are not using reason, but rather an emotion generated by anger.

 

To the point that America suffer from a lagging school system, let's not belabor the point. I absolutely concede that fact. I believe it would be best to de-fund it gradually. Furthermore, it is an entirely separate problem from the curriculum and content presented in the schools, contrary to your claim. If you were to miraculously force American children to attend Afro-centric schools, it would be no less immoral than the present US school system.

 

There are so many wild accusations and contradictions you present in your posts that I could not pursue them all; the others are doing a fine job. Although, I can't help pausing for this one:

 

Aristotle, a Macedonian, was black? Pah-leez. Don't you suppose those mosaics and other illustrations were produced in the medieval Arab culture? Or do you think someone actually copied the images from photographs?

 

Chryselephantine_4.jpg

 

These are the minoans, the earliest greeks, do they look white to you?

 

Minoans-eg.jpg

 

The ancient greeks and macedonians were UNDOUBTEDLY blacks

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Racism is so stupid I'm nearly to the point where I think it's more harmful to engage in any debate about it whatsoever. It deserves no thought. I suppose it's the perfect thing for unthinkers to latch on to: no thought needed at all, just throw a quick glance at his skin tone, and make sure he ain't actin too smart.

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