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I'm a hero

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According to the religious, the discovery of fire is due to (a) god. According to the non-religious, the discovery of fire is due to a man. The difference is this: the first is an irresponsible child screaming "It can't be so!" for fear of their own shortcomings and inadequacies due wholly to their commitment to mediocrity. The second is the adult, the responsible human who lives up not only to himself but the very universe upon and in which he lives.

For the hero worshiper, Galileo, Copernicus, Michaelangelo, Pericles, Aristotle, Heron, and Socrates are the gods. The truly great humans who lived up to their potentials. For the religious, those men are great due to the gifts of god... How sickening

I found this site in a google search about an hour ago when I tried to find out what Angelina Jolie's possible interest in Ayn Rand was (Yes, I know, stupid, and not typical of me). I read a few comments and was at first impressed by the civility of the posters and secondly by the directness, and perhaps even ruthlessness, of one particular poster that really made me want to join.

What I hope to achieve is of course trade to no qualms there, so long as terms are stated :thumbsup: It would be wonderful if I could meet a few people as well and gain some lasting friendships, especially if it is women that are objectivist and are as lonely as much as I am :)

See you around the forums!

-Derek

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I'm afraid I can't fulfill your last wish, since I am not qualified in many ways. However, I can very easily welcome you to the forum.

The directness, civility and, at times, outright ruthlessness of some posters is what drew me in here at first. I should warn you, don't go around trying to start fights, when you know the way you say something will just make something angry. There's a fine line between instructive sarcasm and just outright meanness. Inspector will probably disagree with me though. :thumbsup:

See you there!

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Thanks for the welcome replies. Also, I would add that it is possible to exhibit ruthlessness and be civil just as well. I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that ruthlessness must necessarily lead to argumentation but your comments are noted.

Sincerely,

Derek

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Welcome to the forum. When and how were you introduced to Objectivism?

I consider myself to have always been an objectivist. I can say this knowing my thought patters and choices made as I aged. It would be accurate to attribute myself as an objectivist to as a process of maturation however, of which I started reading GoodKinds novels about 4 years ago and followed up by reading The foundtainhead and Atlas Shrugged in fall and winter of last year (2007).

I can relate to Atlas Shrugged so much in fact, that occassionally I will tell people who are particularly interested in understanding my person to go pick the book up from the library. I fit just about everything in that book to a 'T' including the HIGHLY EROTIC masochism :thumbsup:

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I fit just about everything in that book to a 'T' including the HIGHLY EROTIC masochism :thumbsup:

Interesting. That, and the comment about you being a hero-worshipper...

Now "Derek" is, where I live, generally a man's name... are you a man? (read that literally - no offense intended!)

Did you ever notice that the "masochism" and hero-worship were always being done by the women in the books? I've noticed a lot of people miss that.

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Don't talk -- or you will anger someone around here.

I'm trying to break it to him as gently as possible... I don't want to dump on the new guy or anything. I mean if that's his bag then it's not the end of the world or anything... it's just he should know that's not where the books were going...

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I'm trying to break it to him as gently as possible... I don't want to dump on the new guy or anything. I mean if that's his bag then it's not the end of the world or anything... it's just he should know that's not where the books were going...

Aww, all he needs is a heroic, aggressive woman, dat's all.

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Aww, all he needs is a heroic, aggressive woman, dat's all.

Not really; that would only make the situation worse. There's a mega-thread on this, which turns in a relevant direction right around here.

I'm not that extreme folks, no dominatrix damnit!

I'm not saying anything about your own situation, which I don't know enough about to say anything and as far as I know you didn't ask me.

I just mean to clarify what the books present - it's a common error to not realize that it is the women who are "hero worshippers."

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Would you clarify that post, please? There's no reason to start calling people names, especially unjustified ones, and it is against the forum rules.

Ayn Rand, in her non-fiction, explicitly clarified that she considers hero-worship (or perhaps 'man-worship') to be the essence of female sexuality. (She didn't speak in as much detail about male sexuality, which makes sense because it can be difficult to feel qualified to comment about the matter from a perspective you don't have direct access to.)

While hero-worship in the non-sexual sense is equally proper to men, it is not the be-all and end-all of life: heroism is. It's more important to be a hero than to worship heroes: the second is a consequence of the first, not a primary.

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Exactly what Jenni said.

As I said, I'm not trying to comment on you so do please try to refrain from insulting me. I just want to make sure that you have a clear understanding of what Ayn Rand's view on hero worship was.

After all, you are new here and the purpose of this place is to educate and elucidate Ayn Rand's works and philosophy.

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Exactly what Jenni said.

As I said, I'm not trying to comment on you so do please try to refrain from insulting me. I just want to make sure that you have a clear understanding of what Ayn Rand's view on hero worship was.

After all, you are new here and the purpose of this place is to educate and elucidate Ayn Rand's works and philosophy.

Put it this way, there is no rule or law that says I necessarily have to agree with every single little thing that Ayn Rand says, or perhaps more so what you have so far interpreted as Ayn Rand saying, but it's a lot more complex than that really which is why I recommended you look into evolution if you have not already. It is said that homo Sapiens are social beings but on the same token I would have to agree that they are also sexual beings. The main issue I take with you is your implications. Honestly, why assume or imply something about someone instead of asking? Furthermore I don't see how any of this is an equal and fair trade, nor do I see how I have not sufficiently explained myself. If it is not understood the first time, what the hell should make me think it would be understood the second time around. Quite simply, I am not here to repeat myself. If this classifies me as an anti Social asshole or anything else of that sort, so be it.

Edited by Sieur Bertrand
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Put it this way, there is no rule or law that says I necessarily have to agree with every single little thing that Ayn Rand says, or perhaps more so what you have so far interpreted as Ayn Rand saying

Actually, there is a rule that this is a forum whose purpose is to educate and elucidate Ayn Rand's works. You are of course free to disagree, but that is nevertheless the purpose of this place, so do bear that in mind.

which is why I recommended you look into evolution if you have not already.

"Evolution." Yes, that word alone is enough for me to know what you're talking about. See, I can use sarcasm, too.

All of which is besides the point. If you want to debate against Ayn Rand's views, then go to the debate forum. However, the rules say this is a place for learning and asking about said views, so it would be inappropriate here.

The main issue I take with you is your implications. Honestly, why assume or imply something about someone instead of asking?

I didn't. What I wanted to ask, I asked. As for implications, I said I intended no comment on your situation. In fact I said that three times now. Must I say it again?

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Put it this way, there is no rule or law that says I necessarily have to agree with every single little thing that Ayn Rand says

There is when you use the term 'Hero-Worshipper' knowing full well the context within which people will understand it in, i.e. Ayn Rand's usage, where she specifically defined it as being a woman's nature.

If you didn't mean that, then don't use the phrase. It's as simple as that. It's not us trying to force you to agree with Rand - it's simply a matter of discourse that one says what one means.

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There is when you use the term 'Hero-Worshipper' knowing full well the context within which people will understand it in, i.e. Ayn Rand's usage, where she specifically defined it as being a woman's nature.

If you didn't mean that, then don't use the phrase. It's as simple as that. It's not us trying to force you to agree with Rand - it's simply a matter of discourse that one says what one means.

Yes, precisely - and on the nose!

Sieur Bertrand, the title of your post by all appearances is a literary allusion to Ayn Rand. And if it is, it represents a mistaken interpretation of her views. Since the specific and stated purpose of these forums is to, as I said, educate and elucidate those views, then I was simply following the stated purpose of these forums by providing a correction to your error.

It seems you've taken offense to it, but you should bear in mind where you are and what the purpose of this place is.

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I'd just like to add that the forum does not exist for the purpose of educating anyone: it serves to *foster discussion* of Ayn Rand's works and Objectivism. I do not know that anyone here is qualified to teach or be a spokesman for Objectivism.

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I'm not saying anything about your own situation, which I don't know enough about to say anything and as far as I know you didn't ask me.

I just mean to clarify what the books present - it's a common error to not realize that it is the women who are "hero worshippers."

As I said, I'm not trying to comment on you so do please try to refrain from insulting me. I just want to make sure that you have a clear understanding of what Ayn Rand's view on hero worship was.

And then...

The main issue I take with you is your implications. Honestly, why assume or imply something about someone instead of asking?

lolwut-scaled.jpg

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I do not know that anyone here is qualified to teach or be a spokesman for Objectivism.

The second point is granted, but I'm not sure of the first. In a discussion in which one party asks a question about Objectivism and another provides an answer, is that not - technically speaking - teaching something about Objectivism? Or is it just that "educate" can imply a more comprehensive transfer of knowledge than is possible here. If that's what you mean, then I agree - this is no place to learn the whole, or even the majority, of Objectivism. It's for smaller questions, applications, and so forth.

Sexuality - Female Sexuality = Male Sexuality?

Problems solved! :D

Er... not really. To quote Morbo: Windmills do not work that way.

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