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Mammon

Iron Man

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10/10

Great plot. Great acting. Orgasimic special effects. Islamic terrorists get there ass handed to them by an American Industrialist. One line in the movie has the bad guy saying "You think, just because YOU have an idea that it's YOURs? You don't own ideas. And too think what the world would be missing out on because you decided to be selfish with yours" :lol:

But, if you do go see it. STAY FOR THE ENDING AFTER THE CREDITS!!! You will want to see it. It's like the icing on the cake.

Edited by Mammon

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10/10

Great plot. Great acting. Orgasimic special effects. Islamic terrorists get there ass handed to them by an American Industrialist. One line in the movie has the bad guy saying "You think, just because YOU have an idea that it's YOURs? You don't own ideas. And too think what the world would be missing out on because you decided to be selfish with yours" :D

But, if you do go see it. STAY FOR THE ENDING AFTER THE CREDITS!!! You will want to see it. It's like the icing on the cake.

I saw it last night. Iron Man is my new favorite superhero.

Best superhero movie I've ever seen and the ultimate Objectivist superhero movie at that.

The movie was philosophically sound. Literally felt like the Fountainhead gone Sci-fi.

And yeh, that line from Obadiah stuck with me too, even though you slightly misquoted it ;)

I didn't see the bit after the credits though :lol: But I intend on going again.

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I completely agree! Finally, for once, the brilliant scientist, industrialist, inventor, businessman is the HERO! Tony Stark has pieces of all the heroes of Atlas Shrugged, especially Hank Rearden. Fantastic film!

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I completely agree! Finally, for once, the brilliant scientist, industrialist, inventor, businessman is the HERO! Tony Stark has pieces of all the heroes of Atlas Shrugged, especially Hank Rearden. Fantastic film!

I was thinking he was more like d'Aconia in this film, with the being a plaboy and lush and all.

Iron Man is my new favorite superhero.

You might want to read about his role in Civil War. Your bubble has to get busted, I'm sorry. Pre-Civil War Iron Man is exactly like the one in the movie though.

Best superhero movie I've ever seen and the ultimate Objectivist superhero movie at that.

Ehhh, I'd say it's Objectivist-friendly, how about that?

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I haven't yet seen it, but Iron Man is 2nd in my favorite superhero list, Batman being the first. However, in the actual comics he makes some foolish decisions, and his most recent exploits had him defending the Superhuman Registration Act which required all superhumans to reveal their identities to the government and make them aware of all their powers. Iron Man sided with the Government. I will hopefully see this movie tonight or tomorrow. From the sounds of it, it doesn't turn into a Liberal piss-fest, which was my main concern about the movie. Iron Man was created to defeat Communism and he's back to whip some Islamic ass.

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Just coming back from the movie due to Mammon's recommendation and my boredom, and I have to say I agree with what Mammon says. It's a GREAT movie and most of it agrees philosophically with Objectivism, such as how Islamic states need to be taken down by force and how some of our present businessmen are working towards the destruction of America (

in the case of the movie, Tony Stark's company, without his knowledge, was supplying weapons to the terrorists that eventually tried to kill him

).

This movie is ridiculously worth the watch.

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I thought this movie looked incredibly stupid when I saw it previewed...except for the Black Sabbath soundtrack. But I've seen nothing but glowing reviews of it, so maybe I'll check it out this weekend.

Edited by Moose

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Benpercent: the terrorists weren't even Islamic by implication, and there wasn't the slightest implication that it was *America* that had to be defended. He was just doing the typical super-hero save-the-poor-screaming-women-and-kids.

I was a little disappointed, but I've been looking forward to this movie since I saw the first preview months ago. I thought it was a good movie, but I think the acting and my awareness of what it *could* have been highlighted the flaws. I just don't think that the grandeur of the movie expressed the grandeur of the theme. The disparity made me a little sad.

I think Robert Downey Jr. had the *look* of Tony Stark down, but for most of the movie he sounded like a carnival barker--working so hard to sound casual and friendly and likeable that he was actually more than a bit off-putting. Granted this may have been intentional--his mind was racing ahead so quickly that he couldn't finish one idea before he was off to the next. But I don't think that came across in the characterization very well.

When he was working on the suit, there was a wonderful opportunity to show that here was a man who loved his work and was extremely good at it, and what do we get? Hyperactive chatter with voice-activated robots. I suspect it was supposed to be cute and/or comedy relief, but it was a bad time for it.

The banter during the end fight and the way Pepper Potts behaved annoyed me.

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Benpercent: the terrorists weren't even Islamic by implication, and there wasn't the slightest implication that it was *America* that had to be defended. He was just doing the typical super-hero save-the-poor-screaming-women-and-kids.

They were the Ten Rings, which means they with the Mandarin. The Mandarin is one of the most out spoken anti-capitalist villians in comics (he even says so himself). It's not too much of a stretch of the imagination.

I think Robert Downey Jr. had the *look* of Tony Stark down, but for most of the movie he sounded like a carnival barker--working so hard to sound casual and friendly and likeable that he was actually more than a bit off-putting. Granted this may have been intentional--his mind was racing ahead so quickly that he couldn't finish one idea before he was off to the next. But I don't think that came across in the characterization very well.

He is like that in the comics. He is more serious in his Iron Man suit, but as Stark is very much like the movie version. Which leads me to say...

When he was working on the suit, there was a wonderful opportunity to show that here was a man who loved his work and was extremely good at it, and what do we get? Hyperactive chatter with voice-activated robots. I suspect it was supposed to be cute and/or comedy relief, but it was a bad time for it.

Hyperactive is a good word to used because I think that really illustrates him. Stark is almost never satisfied. He always has to make improvements and upgrades. His mind is racing at a million miles per hour. I think it comes out in the way he works and talks, like he is so focused... everything else is just a blur.

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...and there wasn't the slightest implication that it was *America* that had to be defended.

I know, but it would eventually lead to that because of all the technology they had, since it is at least known the setting was in the middle east. Imagine a scenario where American weapons industries supported Iran by shipping atomic bombs to them. Sure, before such an event they would be harmless, but afterwards they would have the triggers to pull and the hate to motivate. This is where I deduced the whole "American businessmen destroying America" ordeal. Destroyers were being supported in the movie, after all.

On another note: this movie was so good I think I'll go see it again tomorrow. What impressed me the most was the display of technology, and I feel inspired to do more studying of computer science. What this movie means to me philosophically is how high man can raise when he's free to let his intelligence flourish.

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I thought it wasn't even O friendly. Sorry. highly mixed principles and I didn't think his business aspects were portrayed in a positive light at all. nor was business in general. Sorry guys. This stunk.

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Benpercent: the terrorists weren't even Islamic by implication,

Actually, there was one passing reference. I just realized it this morning right when I woke up. The implication is very easy to miss. When the head terrorist (the bald guy) speaks to the American industrialist, he makes mention of, or calls the industrialist, "kaffir", which means infidel.

I thought it wasn't even O friendly. Sorry. highly mixed principles and I didn't think his business aspects were portrayed in a positive light at all. nor was business in general. Sorry guys. This stunk.

Ah yes. I admit I noticed that too, but I must've put it out of mind since I was overwhelmed with what I did like about the movie. Here are some of the bad points of the movie, philosophically:

  1. In the beginning Tony Stark is portrayed as a snottily over-arrogant businessman. Being boastful with your earned self-esteem is alright in the right context, but Stark takes it so far as to mistreat every acquaintance of his, giving off that typical image of a suited man walking on the backs of people facedown in the mud.
  2. Stark has irrational sex with someone who holds opposing values to his.
  3. It's somewhat altruistic, but I think it's debatable.

    When he finally finishes building the completed Iron man suit, he flies back to the middle east to get back at the terrorist group that held him captive earlier. Whether he was just trying to save the local folks or get revenge (or both) is of question, but I admit I would do the same thing in his position, being so miffed.


  4. One of the most important things of all the bad things about this movie to note would be the notion of unearned guilt.

    Unearned guilt was actually the reason Stark built the Iron man suit to begin with. The terrorists were getting a hold of his weapons and he considered it his fault and responsibility, but really it is the fault of those in his company who were selling these weapons to the terrorists behind his back and against his wishes.


But the movie is still worth watching in my opinion. What memorized me about it was the fight of good versus evil (natch) and the display of technology/intelligence. This movie induced the same effects in me as when I was reading and watching about a new military transport vehicle that can balance itself in dynamic conditions. Amazing.

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Watched it, loved it. That movie is really, really great in its characterization, acting, special effects, plot - everything. Well, yes, plot is a bit predictable -

that brief dialog with Stein about budget and that-suit-you-sleep-in (forgot how it's called in English) was a major giveaway

.

The philosophical hype I've seen in this thread seems out of place, IMO. It's just an action flick, after all. Come on!

P.S.:

There's gonna be Avengers cross-over with Samuel L. Jackson, WOW!!!

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I thought it was fairly good. Not a philosophical masterpiece, but better than average of what I see in movies today.

I thought Robert Downey Jr. was surprisingly good at his role.

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The philosophical hype I've seen in this thread seems out of place, IMO. It's just an action flick, after all. Come on!

Given the philosophical nature of this forum, it is pretty much standard fare that a work is going to be evaluated philosophically based on whatever merit it may or may not have. Even 'action flicks' are rightfully subject to such evaluation.

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What this movie means to me philosophically is how high man can raise when he's free to let his intelligence flourish.

I agree. I greatly enjoyed this movie and I am glad I took my son to see it.

Iron man is not a mutant (wasn’t transformed at a biological level, wasn’t bitten by any sort of genetic insect). Instead, he is a man - a self made superhero who has used his genius mind and ingenuity to build an armored suit to give himself superhuman strength and abilities (that enables him first to escape captivity and then reach his goal). The triumph of human ingenuity over the frailty of the human form. The essentialization of "man survives by his mind" and showed what kind of difference/impact one great man can have. It was awesome.

I also did not find his motives altruistic (like it was in case of Transformers). When he became aware that American enemies got hold of his weapons (weapons he build to protect America) - he wanted to do something about it - found a way - and did it.

I also did not sense that the movie was anti-business overall. There are good and bad guys in every area. Some run their business ethically ... some don't.

Not Oist friendly? HA!

Edited by ~Sophia~

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I agree with Sophia. I think a few of the things Benpercent listed just had to do with character development. I think, achieving everything he did at such a young age left Stark kind of bored and disappointed. Remember when he got the trophy, he said "Yeah, it's not like I don't have any of those floating around here..."

I think sleeping with the reporter girls was more of a way to say "Ha! I'm right" because she was all antagonistic to him. Kind of a nihilist thing, but this is before his life-changing moments. And he didn't go all anti-gun, they obviously ended up keeping the weapons making part of the busines, he just found a way to but in some "accountability" like he was talking about.

Anyways, Sophia did you stay after the credits?

I'm hoping they make the Captain America movie this good.

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As a Hollywood superhero movie, this is probably one of the best. As it has been said, it's not a masterpiece but the plot is solid and Stark's motivations are believable, logical, and not altruistic. I would have enjoyed more of Iron Man blowing up terrorists, but that posed no challenge to him after all :D

If you liked the movie, I recommend The Invincible Iron Man, a direct-to-video animated film that Marvel released last year. It's another version of Iron Man's origin, and it has a theme of free will vs. duty, represented by American technology and Oriental mysticism respectively. Very good.

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I don't think Iron Man was explicitly O-friendly, but it wasn't nearly O-hostile, either - since neither was the intent of the filmmakers, I think it's up to the individual to take what he can from it.

I really like the character of Tony Stark, and loved reading Iron Man comics as a kid. I'm relieved that the movie adaptation did not address Stark's alcoholism, yet I'm a little disappointed that the demonstrated character traits weren't stressed more. I would like to have seen a more substantive transformation after his capture than was portrayed - more reckless playboy before, and more determined hero after - but I blame the script-writers for that, not Robert Downey, Jr.

In fact, that's the only real problem I had with Iron Man: the script. Given what a long-shot it is for any movie to be intentionally Objectivist in nature, I don't expect that in films; but I do like anything that may relate to Objectivist aesthetics, and I think - with a little effort and perspective (it's just a movie) - Iron Man can be viewed as a great way to spend a couple of relaxing hours on a hot summer afternoon.

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Just returned from the theater, and I am 100% satisfied. Iron Man rocks! It is like Transformers (lots of great action), but additionally with better characters and a better, more consistent and believable story.

Highlights: Robert Downey Jr., who is entertaining, and his character, who is genius, independent, interesting and personable

.The visuals, which are not used just to impress, but to make the movie better

.The emphasis on technology as the enabler for Iron Man

.The repeated demonstration that a smart man is the source of the technology (for example, the terrorists' impotence when trying to replicate the suit, the engineers' insistence that Iron Man's technology is impossible even though that is obviously not the case, the villain's version of the suit, which is bulkier, uglier, and does less than Iron Man's, and even the villain explicitly stating that a man doesn't own his ideas)

.No mercy for the villains

.The action and pace!

The not-so-good: Moral issues concerning weapons manufacturing are briefly discussed, and a character suggests that it is always wrong. It's left at that, with the forming of Iron Man as the answer, I guess. For me, that didn't cut it. With such a dramatic issue, I should have understood which side the movie stood by. Also, Robert Downey Jr.'s character is mostly good, but there is enough ambiguity of character to disqualify him as a "real" hero, which is the kind I like to remember again later. So, that was slightly disappointing for me. Consider: "I feel it in my heart, it's right" ... "I've finally found what I need to do," even though he's been a genius inventor since the age of four and obviously relishes the activity ... "You're all I've got, Pepper" even though he's blatantly personable and couldn't possibly flounder in social intercourse, and his womanizing isn't consistent with his character's personality, either. That, versus his mental capacity, which is so great as to create a faster-flying piece of technology than fighter jets, even to create a mimic of life itself (!), his indifference to conformity and conventionality, and his jovial personality.

But all-in-all, a great start to the summer movie season.

Edited by JASKN

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My wife and I saw Iron Man this past weekend, and I enjoyed it. It was a fun, action packed superhero movie. I laughed out loud several times, and the special effects were fantastic. However, I was a little let down after the glowing reviews of the movie I got from here and some of my friends. The theme of Iron Man is somewhat ambiguous, as JASKN noted, so it didn't exactly make my spirit soar. The characterization was not as developed as I would have liked.

As for superhero movies, I would rank Xmen, Xmen 2, Spiderman, and a few others above Iron Man.

Overall, a fun summer blockbuster worth seeing in the theatre.

--Dan Edge

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If you enjoyed the movie and want more Iron Man, I recommend the direct-to-video animated feature The Invincible Iron Man (which is even better than the live action one) and the comic book series Marvel Adventures: Iron Man, which features one of the best renditions of the character ever (Marvel is currently publishing this series.)

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Thanks, Gabo.

I just read the movie's tagline on IMDB: "Heroes aren't Born. They're Built." Nice! I'm not sure how they used it in the film's marketing, though.

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Consider: "I feel it in my heart, it's right" ... "I've finally found what I need to do," even though he's been a genius inventor since the age of four and obviously relishes the activity ...

I don't think this is such an issue. Remember, he didn't "feel it in his heart" until after he saw it and reasoned that his products were being used for evil purposes, purposes he would never have approved of. He thought that there was some level of accountability to his weapon sales such that they were being used by free nations for protection, not terrorists for domination. When he found that was wrong, he felt somewhat responsible and choose to clean up his own mess. It seems clear to me that his lifestyle made him oblivious to some of the important inner workings of his own company, that of accountability.

It is perfectly viable to be passionate (to feel it in one's heart) about one's convictions ONCE you have reasoned them out. He felt it in his heart after he reasoned it out. I don't have a problem with that.

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