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Need help understanding a large issue for me...

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Before I actually describe the problem at hand, I think it is imperative that I provide a little backstory to help make things clear.

My senior year in high school, I had a steady girlfriend. It started off great; she was gorgeous, strong willed and very individualistic, and she is the only girl I have ever truly been in love with. The relationship went downhill as it progressed: she cheated on me a few times, would go through periods where she didn't know how she felt for me, and would ignore me and insult me at parties or when we were with friends (ditched me at my senior prom, for instance). She ended our relationship because she didn't want to be dating me when I would be in school two hours away from her, because she knew she would cheat on me, and she also said that if we stayed in a relationship, she would end up hating me, and she didn't want that: she'd much rather remain good friends. I agreed, because I didn't want to lose her.

We talked every now and then when I was at school, and hooked up occasionally when I came home from breaks. I justified hooking up with her because before and after each time, she told me she still had feelings for me, and I was hoping our physical relations would bring us back together. Even though I reminded myself that she took advantage of me, used me and at times treated me like shit, there were many amazing times as well. She was almost like two different people: when we were alone, together, she was perfect. We got along great and were very happy together. The other side was when we were with groups of people, where she would ignore me and walk away if I tried talking to her. There were also times when I came home when she told me she was falling for me again, and even at one point tearfully admitted that she was sorry for taking me for granted and ruining our relationship. Basically, she is very bipolar. When it was good, it was very good and when it was bad, it was shitty.

Now, one year later, I can officially say that I am no longer in love with her, nor do I harbor any feelings that can be classified as more than just friends. I can also fully admit that she is, by today's definition, a "slut". She lost her virginity to me, which she was glad about because she wanted to lose it to someone she loved, but since then she has had sex with two random guys, both times when she first met them and has told me that to her, sex has no special meaning. She cheated on me, cheated on her next boyfriend, just recently cheated on her current boyfriend with her ex-boyfriend, and will often hook up with random guys when single. She will also make up excuses and deny cheating.

When I was away at school I was happy because I had distance from her. Now that I am home, she wants to hang out with me, as she still views me as a close friend. To be honest, I don't really want to but at the same time I do because I am still very, very attracted to her in a purely sexual way. This is my dilemma: I am physically attracted to this girl, who is both horrid and amazing at the same time, and I hate myself for it. I have a huge desire to sleep with her, just one more time and it somewhat sickens me because I know now how sexually promiscuous she is with other guys. I feel that, by sleeping with her, I will conquer not her, but the injustices she has done to me. All of the shit she has put me through will go away if I sleep with her. I don't know why, I just feel like that will give me one last sense of ownership, something I haven't felt over her in a long time. On the other hand, I also want to because I feel like if we sleep together, we will connect like we used to, even if only for one more time. Deep down I still care about her, so sleeping with her will fulfill both needs. At least, I think so.

As I said she wants to hang out. Part of me doesn't because I am to good for her, and am sick of putting up with her. Part of me does because I know that she is attracted to me, and if I really want to we will sleep together. Part of me also wants to explain all this to her, although I doubt she'll comprehend it all, and the last thing I want is her to misinterpret my feelings. Are any of my feelings rational or moral, or I am just mixed up from everything I've been through? By sleeping with her again, would I just be degrading myself and my one sense of self worth?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but thank you to those of you who read it. Figuring this out is very important to me.

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The desire to conquer her is irrational; it is pure second-handedness. In my estimation, you need to completely sever relations with this tramp. Use your hand if you need some purely physical pleasure. On a more abstract level, the pursuit of non-values will destroy you. By choosing to sleep with her again, nothing will go away - except maybe the last bit of self esteem you have remaining. You say that sleeping with her again will give you the sense of ownership over her, but is this really the case? From your post, it seems much more probable that she owns you. Ask yourself why you still care for her; what value is she providing to your life? If the answer to that question isn't immediately obvious, then you must conclude that this girl is a piece of garbage to be disposed of.

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Reading your post the only thing that I got out of it is that this girl enjoys controlling you. She is manipulating you. Her being nice when you are alone is just so she can fuck you around and emasculate you when you are in public.

I agree with adrock3215. Walk away, she's no good, no matter what the situation.

Edited by Zip

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Even though I reminded myself that she took advantage of me, used me and at times treated me like shit, there were many amazing times as well.

The other two replies have already said what I wanted to say about what you should do now, but I just wanted to comment on this piece. For future reference -- nobody treats you badly all of the time. If someone did, it would be the easiest thing in the world to never have anything to do with her. Manipulative people get you to stick around by treating you wonderfully some of the time, maybe even most of the time, and really badly at other times. Raise your standards -- it's possible to find someone who will treat you well all of the time, perhaps with the occasional slip-up, but close enough to "all of the time" that that's how you think of it.

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Part of me also wants to explain all this to her, although I doubt she'll comprehend it all, and the last thing I want is her to misinterpret my feelings. Are any of my feelings rational or moral, or I am just mixed up from everything I've been through? By sleeping with her again, would I just be degrading myself and my one sense of self worth?

Based on what I've read, you are experiencing a conflict between your heart (emotions) and your mind (reason). In the words of John Galt, follow your mind.

The conflict in your emotions stems from the contradiction of what you want her to be, and what she is. You said it yourself, "When I was away at school I was happy because I had distance from her." Why were you happy? Because you weren't forced to confront the contradiction. She could go off being her, and you didn't have to face the evidence that what she was and isn't what you idolized her to be.

If you sleep with her again, you will not conquer anything. You will be using her in the same way she has used you. You will be taking from her under false pretenses. In doing so, you will give up the moral choice.

I suspect she is very aware of how she has treated you on some level, although I also suspect that in her full consciousness, she evades that knowledge.

So you now have a choice - you can choose to follow your emotions and ignore the consequences of what you will give up in yourself, or you can stop seeing her.

You have no obligation to spare her feelings. If she really isn't aware of what she's done, making her aware may help her someday to change. If so, that's her journey to take, and sacrificing yourself for her sake will not help either of you. If, on the other hand, she is aware of how she treats you, then she has no right to expect sympathy from you when she hasn't been sympathetic TO you.

My advice, then, is to tell her that you are not going to spend time with her. Don't tell her you don't want to - that would be a lie. Tell her you are not going to even though you want to, because you know that if you do, you will just end up feeling used and like shit again. Be honest: tell her that you've lied to yourself - you've tried to see her as someone and something other than she really is, and that she isn't, and that you're not going to do it anymore. Acknowledge that your desire to spend time with her is purely physical, and reject the urge to be a slave to your physical feelings.

You strike me as a very smart young man, and you remind me of situations I was in something like yours - not exactly - when I was your age. So please, let me encourage you from personal experience. Do the right thing now, and in the long run you will know it and be glad of it. Do the wrong thing, and you could spend years of your life in misery and torment because of it. I know - I did - for 10 years.

The choice is yours.

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I'd like to add that understanding the nature of emotions is very pertinent to your current situation. There is an essay by Dan Edge here thet I recommend you read (if you haven't yet).

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I feel that, by sleeping with her, I will conquer not her, but the injustices she has done to me. All of the shit she has put me through will go away if I sleep with her. I don't know why, I just feel like that will give me one last sense of ownership, something I haven't felt over her in a long time. On the other hand, I also want to because I feel like if we sleep together, we will connect like we used to, even if only for one more time.

If you sleep with her, you will be sanctioning the way she has treated you, and she will be conquering you.

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You are hung up purely on physical beauty? All you need is to get out there and find other beauties. It was another issue here that concerned me though.

I have friends who know nothing about Objectivism or even have concepts like self-esteem & value explicitly defined; but to them, it's obvious, she'd be out of their mind & life in an instant. Easy.

This lady now knows your the type of man who can be used but will stick around. She said to you "if I stick around i'll end up hating you", she is frustrated that you are letting her treat you like a dog. I wouldn't be so quick to call her a screw-up or a slut, more like unfortunate. Perhaps upon meeting she thought you were the dominant male she wanted (needed) and you turned out not to be ?

How does Howard Roark act with his partner? If it's not on those lines your going against reality and will lose.

Check out Love,Sex & Romance by Dr Peikoff. He covers all this.

Edited by Seanjos

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Before I actually describe the problem at hand, I think it is imperative that I provide a little backstory to help make things clear.

My senior year in high school, I had a steady girlfriend. It started off great; she was gorgeous, strong willed and very individualistic, and she is the only girl I have ever truly been in love with. The relationship went downhill as it progressed: she cheated on me a few times, would go through periods where she didn't know how she felt for me, and would ignore me and insult me at parties or when we were with friends (ditched me at my senior prom, for instance). She ended our relationship because she didn't want to be dating me when I would be in school two hours away from her, because she knew she would cheat on me, and she also said that if we stayed in a relationship, she would end up hating me, and she didn't want that: she'd much rather remain good friends. I agreed, because I didn't want to lose her.

We talked every now and then when I was at school, and hooked up occasionally when I came home from breaks. I justified hooking up with her because before and after each time, she told me she still had feelings for me, and I was hoping our physical relations would bring us back together. Even though I reminded myself that she took advantage of me, used me and at times treated me like shit, there were many amazing times as well. She was almost like two different people: when we were alone, together, she was perfect. We got along great and were very happy together. The other side was when we were with groups of people, where she would ignore me and walk away if I tried talking to her. There were also times when I came home when she told me she was falling for me again, and even at one point tearfully admitted that she was sorry for taking me for granted and ruining our relationship. Basically, she is very bipolar. When it was good, it was very good and when it was bad, it was shitty.

Now, one year later, I can officially say that I am no longer in love with her, nor do I harbor any feelings that can be classified as more than just friends. I can also fully admit that she is, by today's definition, a "slut". She lost her virginity to me, which she was glad about because she wanted to lose it to someone she loved, but since then she has had sex with two random guys, both times when she first met them and has told me that to her, sex has no special meaning. She cheated on me, cheated on her next boyfriend, just recently cheated on her current boyfriend with her ex-boyfriend, and will often hook up with random guys when single. She will also make up excuses and deny cheating.

When I was away at school I was happy because I had distance from her. Now that I am home, she wants to hang out with me, as she still views me as a close friend. To be honest, I don't really want to but at the same time I do because I am still very, very attracted to her in a purely sexual way. This is my dilemma: I am physically attracted to this girl, who is both horrid and amazing at the same time, and I hate myself for it. I have a huge desire to sleep with her, just one more time and it somewhat sickens me because I know now how sexually promiscuous she is with other guys. I feel that, by sleeping with her, I will conquer not her, but the injustices she has done to me. All of the shit she has put me through will go away if I sleep with her. I don't know why, I just feel like that will give me one last sense of ownership, something I haven't felt over her in a long time. On the other hand, I also want to because I feel like if we sleep together, we will connect like we used to, even if only for one more time. Deep down I still care about her, so sleeping with her will fulfill both needs. At least, I think so.

As I said she wants to hang out. Part of me doesn't because I am to good for her, and am sick of putting up with her. Part of me does because I know that she is attracted to me, and if I really want to we will sleep together. Part of me also wants to explain all this to her, although I doubt she'll comprehend it all, and the last thing I want is her to misinterpret my feelings. Are any of my feelings rational or moral, or I am just mixed up from everything I've been through? By sleeping with her again, would I just be degrading myself and my one sense of self worth?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but thank you to those of you who read it. Figuring this out is very important to me.

I see a lot of good responses here already, but I wanted to add that from my standpoint it is a simple matter of justice. There is no reason for you to be treated this way. You are a valuable individual and you need to be treated as such, not as someone to be led around by the nose at another's convenience. The problem is, no one can enforce this but you. You've got to insist that anyone you deal with, not just this girl, treat you in accordance with your worth, and if they don't, you need to walk away. I know this is easier said than done, believe me. I've made this mistake too. But do not let another use your strength as your weakness. And definitely don't let yourself be ruled by your package. However good the sex may be, it's not worth how you'll feel about yourself afterwards when she throws you away again. This girl not only doesn't respect you, she obviously has no respect for herself either, which makes her dangerous to herself and others. There is a slim possibility she really cares for you, but even if that's true, she has way too much work to do on herself before she should even approach you.

There's a lot of good people out there who would be glad to have you as a friend or partner and who will treat you as an equal. This girl has debased herself and is trying to take you with her. Don't do it. You can be better than that.

One final thing: Don't be guilty that you still find her attractive. I've seen some people on topics like these more or less imply that there's something wrong with you for the fact that physically she still gets you going. Don't sweat it. Just recognize that it's something you're not going to act on and there's no need to sweat your physical responses.

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You shouldn't care about her - go out next evening and strike a conversation with at least 10 girls. Do you still feel the exact way? Hope not. This way I healed my wounds as well.

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This sounds somewhat similar to my situation with my wife, who I am in the process of divorcing, so I can at least partially understand what you are going through. My wife insists that she wants to remain friends, but I have made clear that I want nothing to do with her. I suggest you do the same.

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