Gop To Start Pushing For A 'fairtax?'

[Atlas462]

http://www.drudgereport.com/rnc.htm

Drudge is hardly a reliable source, but this has some interesting implications, if true. If you haven't read up on the Fairtax, check it out here: (http://www.fairtax.org/).

If only Bush wasn't forging a religious state, this might move me to vote for him this fall.

[MisterSwig]

If only Bush wasn't forging a religious state, this might move me to vote for him this fall.

Why would it move you to vote for him? I take it you think the "fair" tax is better than what we have now. I'm curious about your reasons.

[Charles T.]

Someone should merge this thread with the "End of IRS?" thread.

[Oakes]

Why would it move you to vote for him? I take it you think the "fair" tax is better than what we have now. I'm curious about your reasons.

First of all, I acknowledge that our goal is to end all coercive taxation. But to be such an impatient purist that you are blinded of any progress short of complete fulfillment is wrong. The FairTax is MUCH better than the current tax system.

Today's system is complex. It involves a huge variety of taxes, some hidden in the price of goods and services. The IRS estimates 40% of taxpayers no longer comply with the current tax code. In most cases, these people make forgivable mistakes to be blamed on the incomprehensible maze of taxes they must work thru.

Today's system is costly. Every single taxpayer in this country must file a tax return, meaning the government has about 134 million tax returns to deal with. It is estimated that it costs taxpayers $225 billion for tax filing, tax record keeping, and tax reduction advice.

The FairTax replaces the complex variety of federal taxes with one single sales tax. Removing hidden taxes gives us a more clear idea of how much we are being taxed, putting more power in the American people to pressure accountability on the government. With this single tax, many lobbyists will be out of a job, because politicians will no longer be able to use the tax code to favor or unfavor goods and services or to reward or punish bahavior to benefit special interests.

The FairTax is paid every time you go out to buy something, so you will never have to fill out a tax return nor receive an intrusive audit again. Only businesses will. This reduces the number of tax returns to about 15 million, drastically lowering overhead costs and drastically increasing the chance that the government will catch a tax-evader.

The FairTax will tax American-made and imported goods at the same rate. The current system taxes them unevenly, which puts U.S. companies at a competitive disadvantage.

The FairTax is applied according to how much you spend, rather than how much you make. Those who consume more, pay more taxes. Those who save or invest, pay less taxes. We'll be able to keep 100% of our paycheck, which is especially important for those trying to get out of poverty.

The FairTax gives you more control over how much taxes you pay. Currently, the only way to pay less taxes is to earn less. With the FairTax, you can choose when and how much to be taxed according to when and how much you spend.

Here's a nice PDF brochure:

http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/pdf/BROCHURE.pdf

[Charles T.]

"This reduces the number of tax returns to about 15 million, drastically lowering overhead costs and drastically increasing the chance that the government will catch a tax-evader."

You think that's a GOOD thing?

[Oakes]

"This reduces the number of tax returns to about 15 million, drastically lowering overhead costs and drastically increasing the chance that the government will catch a tax-evader."

You think that's a GOOD thing?

FairTax will be a coercive tax system like any other. My whole premise for supporting it is that you cannot make sweeping changes in Washington. And as long as the tax system exists, we can't afford tax-evaders. They drive up the taxes for everyone else!

[Charles T.]

"And as long as the tax system exists, we can't afford tax-evaders. They drive up the taxes for everyone else!"

Boo hoo.

Not that I believe that's even true to begin with. Do you really believe that?

Our gov't takes so much money from us. The only reason we don't have vast surplusses of cash is because of incompetence and corruption. Have you any conception of how much money is stolen and/or wasted by gov't at every level? Not to mention the minor detail that the vast majority of it is spent on things the gov't has no right to be spending it on in the first place.

Taxation is robbery, and anyone who has the courage to do so has the right to evade to whatever extent they want to try, and I wish them the best.

I only wish we could organize enough people to stand up, band together, and explicitly refuse to pay taxes (specifically, income taxes). If we could get even 10,000 people (though 100,000 would of course be even better) to do so publicly, I think there'd be a good chance to effect some great changes in the country.

[Oakes]

Not that I believe that's even true to begin with. Do you really believe that?

Think of billions spent on the enforcement of the tax code, on assessment of civil penalties on taxpayers to force compliance. We're the ones paying for it.

Our gov't takes so much money from us. The only reason we don't have vast surplusses of cash is because of incompetence and corruption. Have you any conception of how much money is stolen and/or wasted by gov't at every level? Not to mention the minor detail that the vast majority of it is spent on things the gov't has no right to be spending it on in the first place.

Agreed! What does this have to do with tax reform again?

Taxation is robbery, and anyone who has the courage to do so has the right to evade to whatever extent they want to try, and I wish them the best.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I find it silly to play martyr against every law one disagrees with. I intend to create a free society from within the system, gradually changing the legal code to suit my ideal.

If I see an idea that will vastly simplify the tax system, greatly improve the economy, reduce taxes, and empower citizens to more actively pressure governmental efficiency, I'm gonna support it! You, on the other hand, will reject any tax reform short of tax abolition.

[AshleyAyn]

First things first w/the taxes - before they go the programs that they pay for have to go. It was not because the taxes were so high and we had such a surplus that they began creating all of these 'wonderful' government programs...it is the programs that have to go and the philosophy behind them. Then the tax system can change (or will change in tandem w/the rest of it all). This fairtax is really just another ploy during election year to get more people voting for the GOP.

[Oakes]

before they go the programs that they pay for have to go.

I'm in total support of CAGW in getting rid of wasteful government programs and cutting taxes. But why do you insist that we do this before we reform the tax system? What's wrong with pushing for both?

[Charles T.]

Think of billions spent on the enforcement of the tax code, on assessment of civil penalties on taxpayers to force compliance. We're the ones paying for it.

(Charles T.)

"Our gov't takes so much money from us. The only reason we don't have vast surplusses of cash is because of incompetence and corruption. Have you any conception of how much money is stolen and/or wasted by gov't at every level? Not to mention the minor detail that the vast majority of it is spent on things the gov't has no right to be spending it on in the first place."

Agreed! What does this have to do with tax reform again?

I'm not interested in making it easier and more "affordable" for the gov't to rob me, and continue to pay for immoral programs I don't support (and stuff some of my money into their corrupt pockets to boot). Nor do I want it to be easier for them to persecute and prosecute anyone who decides to keep what rightfully belongs to them.

The only tax reform I support is tax reduction, and the elimination of all those improper programs. Get rid of those first, and then I would be willing to "streamline" the system.

[Oakes]

I'm not interested in making it easier and more "affordable" for the gov't to rob me and continue to pay for immoral programs I don't support (and stuff some of my money into their corrupt pockets to boot). Nor do I want it to be easier for them to persecute and prosecute anyone who decides to keep what rightfully belongs to them.

It's not just the government that will be saving money; you will be saving money. The very act of streamlining the system will save you money. That is what you are denying yourself in this altruistic duty of yours not to comply with the system.

[Charles T.]

That is what you are denying yourself in this altruistic duty of yours not to comply with the system.

I don't know what you mean by that.

[Oakes]

I don't know what you mean by that.

Refer to my first post in the End of Irs? thread. There are two basic side effects of the FairTax system that make it worthwhile: We'll all save money, and we'll all be more likely to pressure the government to tax us less.

You are rejecting both these benefits because you see the FairTax as just making coercive taxation easier. I hope my post in that thread will convince you otherwise.

[Capitalism Forever]

If we could get even 10,000 people (though 100,000 would of course be even better) to do so publicly

Or better still, 100 corporations--from Fortune 200.

[Capitalism Forever]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I find it silly to play martyr against every law one disagrees with.

What Charles is arguing for is not martyrdom but a successful defiance of force. To go to jail instead of paying $500, that's silly. To keep your money and stay free, that's better than to pay. You have to assess your chances of pulling it off successfully and if you think the money you get to keep is worth the risk, the moral thing is to go for it.

The FairTax might more appropriately be called the LessUnfairTax, since all taxation is unfair. While I agree with Charles that making tax evasion harder in itself is not a good thing, the LessUnfairTax would end the injustice of top earners having to bear a disproportionate part of the tax burden--and THAT's a great thing, so on the whole I think the idea is worth supporting.

[AshRyan]

First things first w/the taxes - before they go the programs that they pay for have to go. It was not because the taxes were so high and we had such a surplus that they began creating all of these 'wonderful' government programs...it is the programs that have to go and the philosophy behind them. Then the tax system can change (or will change in tandem w/the rest of it all). This fairtax is really just another ploy during election year to get more people voting for the GOP.

I completely agree with Ashley.