AllMenAreIslands Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 From my run-ins with people who claim to have been Objectivists, it's usually extreme arrogance. They are usually under the impression that they are able to understand a novel or a body of work like Rand's by reading a few online posts or a review. What kinds of things do they say? And then they read some other article, that superficially condemns Objectivism, and they move on to the next thing that tickles their ego and makes them feel super smart and special. They're easy to spot, on account that they have no idea what Objectivism is and what Rand wrote about, when you go beyond egoism or "small government". Condemns it, how? What is being said? Objectivism is the hardest and most rewarding philosophy there is. In general, what makes these people tick is looking down on the silly people they "outgrew" without even making an effort. In reality, they are going through life so effortlessly because they don't bother making an effort and understanding complex ideas. Effortlessly? I don't think so. They don't have joy in their lives. At best they have self-obliteration, with chemicals imbibed via stomach, lungs or whatever organ they prefer to get it into their bloodstream from. Those people are missing out on he Joy of Thinking, which is in my top 5 pleasures, and I consider myself a rational person. The Joy of Thinking is the joy of using one's mind to solve problems worth solving. And lots of problems do qualify for that effort, at work, at home, at play. That's what people have to realize for themselves. The effort of learning how to think is repaid in being able to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllMenAreIslands Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 What is the point in reading through those things that many times? For the enjoyment of it, mainly. Depending on how connected to reality you actually are, it could take a few re-reads for you to allow yourself to face the truth about your difficulties with it. I've read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged at least 5 times each over the years. More recently I've been re-reading parts of Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal (most recently the chapter on The Nature of Government which is one of the most underlined one in my book lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Objectivists who've outgrown Objectivism ? I don't know any personally, but this is an absorbing subject, and I'd like to make some educated guesses. Maybe: age and ageing, with all their attendant weaknesses - less energy, deteriorating senses, increased dependency on others - could be instrumental in driving the once proudly individualistic person back to the comfort and conformity of the herd. Maybe, one loses one's early courage and conviction through disillusionment - that one didn't find the woman of one's dreams, and one didn't make the millions of dollars, that Romanticism and Capitalism seemed to promise decades earlier. Maybe, it's sexier to be a rebel with a cause in your 20's, but in your 50's you are seen as just a grouch! Maybe, as I have seen [sadly] happen to a friend of mine, a rational and independent-minded agnostic; the prospect of dying and " meeting his maker " tempted him back to his childhood religion. It looks like all I've said here can be distilled down to a few concepts: fear - abnegation - , and courage. When one embarks on an Objectivist life, one makes a pact with oneself , I feel. It is a pact that states " I love and respect Truth, and will never settle for anything less ". This is the integrity that Ayn Rand inspires us with. And if it so happens ( odds against, a trillion to one ) that I do meet my maker one day, well he's going to get a stern talking to , and he'll have to concede that I did pretty well with the Mind he gave me: "Welcome to heaven, my boy," he'd have to say. Approximate to this topic is a saying I've always liked by L.P.Smith - "Youth is for the adventures of the body, but age is for the triumphs of the mind." I'm counting on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axiomatic Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) Objectivists who've outgrown Objectivism ? I don't know any personally, but this is an absorbing subject, and I'd like to make some educated guesses. Maybe: age and ageing, with all their attendant weaknesses - less energy, deteriorating senses, increased dependency on others - could be instrumental in driving the once proudly individualistic person back to the comfort and conformity of the herd. That is truly horrifying to contemplate. Selling out your values for something so low is not a rational option. Edited June 4, 2009 by Axiomatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whYNOT Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Exactly, Ax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-C Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 What in your life set you up to be receptive to Objectivism?? I would like to see some of the answers about what makes this group different Isolation. I've always been a loner, and a medical issue in recent years has exacerbated that. Check my profile summary to the left to see where I come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemuel Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I have talked to people who claim that--from experience--Objectivism does not work in reality, that it is 'good in theory, but bad in practice.' Why do some outgrow Objectivism with age? I agree with others that it's probably for a variety of reasons, but let me offer another one: Objectivism doesn't tell you how to live your life specifically. You can learn logic, reason, a morality of rational self-interest, etc., but none of that gives you specifics, such as what kind of personality you have, what your values are in life, what to seek in a romantic partner, what kind of career to pursue, etc. Objectivism gives you the faculty of evaluating your options in those regards, but it's up to you to make the choices and act on them on your own. This is really hard to do, particularly when so much of what you encounter in a day is hostile to your values. People make irrational decisions, believe in silly things, rationalize bad behavior, transfer their insecurities onto others, and so forth. Entertainment and the arts rarely present the kind of emotional fuel an Objectivist desires. This leaves very little validation in the real world, forcing you to pick & choose and compartmentalize in a manner that often feels like trying to take the eggs out of a cake. Without any external validation, it can be a very lonely path to forge. Some choose to endure it. Others choose not to, compromise on their values, and eventually "grow" out of Objectivism. This is why I want to go to OCON one day; I know this is all "real", but I really need a 3D experience -- something outside of books and the internet. I don't think I'm in danger of leaving Objectivism behind, but there's a spiritual boost that I know I need. In spirit, I've felt for a long, long time like I'm sort of a pre-Galt's-Gulch Dagny Taggart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmoProbos Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 I can give you a good reason for why it could change eventually: the activities of the ARI (eg: such as handing out over a million copies of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead to teachers to teach). I can personally testify to this. I received a copy from my teacher, who received it from the ARI. The only Rand I had read before Atlas was Anthem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiwai Gardiner Posted July 19, 2009 Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 I tend to find that those who make such claims never understood it correctly in the first place - the 'life boat' scenario is the prime example of how those who lack understanding of objectivism 'lose face' when they aren't able to adequately critique the opponents scenario. So long story short, you don't grow out of objectivism - you never understood objectivism in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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