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Obama is an Intellectual Midget

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I'm voting for Obama. In fact, I already did. I mailed my ballot in about a week and a half ago. I can't stand pretty much anything he ever says about healthcare. I'm crossing my fingers that he'll know that can't possibly be paid for and that it won't happen for that reason. I don't want him to raise the capital gains tax. I don't want any more national service. I don't like the rhetoric about being our brothers' keeper. I don't want more government programs to "help" me (want to help me? Don't tax my damn fellowship money!). Pretty much any domestic program he's talked about enacting, I'm against. But, I'm hoping he'll be logical enough to see that it just can't be paid for, and that he'll have to break most of his campaign promises in that regard.

I don't understand how any Objectivist could honestly vote for Obama. The "best" argument that I have heard for Obama was from an anarcho-capitalist who said he would vote for Obama to speed up the inevitable collapse of society so a revolution could begin.

Are there really Objectivists that support Obama? If so why?

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I don't understand how any Objectivist could honestly vote for Obama.
It's really pretty simple. No Objectivist can actively support McCain as an actually good candidate for president, so that leaves us with three choices. One would be to not vote (equally, vote for Donald Duck or some fringer), and that is a popular option. The second is to vote for the candidate who is least dangerous in terms of individual rights (least directed to a theocracy), and that would be Obama. The third is a begrudging, lesser-of-evils vote for McCain who represents the party which used to be, historically, most aligned with economic freedom. Unfortunately, weak historical and rhetorical connections to economic freedom don't count for anything, and the rise of the Religious Right does count for a lot.

It's a cold, hard fact that one of McCain or Obama will be elected and refusing to vote won't suddenly make "Nobody" become president. So it will matter which one of the two possible presidents you vote for. (This doesn't entail that you should vote for one of those two). Then the question is whether the kind of evil that McCain represents is better or worse. As an enabler of the antithesis of man's proper means of survival -- as a toady for the Religious Right, a fact most dramatically proven by his selection of Sarah Palin as his successor -- I cannot imagine voting for McCain.

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It's really pretty simple. No Objectivist can actively support McCain as an actually good candidate for president, so that leaves us with three choices. One would be to not vote (equally, vote for Donald Duck or some fringer), and that is a popular option. The second is to vote for the candidate who is least dangerous in terms of individual rights (least directed to a theocracy)

Again with the theocracy... there is NO threat whatsoever of a theocracy. There is threat, however, of our country becoming so burdened with government regulation and taxes that our economy collapses, giving a good opportunity for the rise of fascism.

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[...] our country becoming so burdened with government regulation and taxes that our economy collapses, giving a good opportunity for the rise of fascism.

Woops!

Too late. :dough:

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Mammon, I wanted to post some of your quotes and my responses. But I decided that I don't want to read your posts again. Plus, it occurs to me that maybe I was offended by a blanket statement from which you intended to exclude me.

I'm interested; have you listened to the audio of Obama outlining his cap-and-trade plan? He says that, under his plan, new coal plant endeavors will be doomed to bankruptcy. This story broke, or rather didn't break, in January. So PLEASE stop saying that media outlets are giving McCain a free pass and just bein' mean to poor Obama. I am glad they told us about his connections (and he IS connected) to Ayers. I damn well do want to know which politicians have connections to any person who seriously discussed the logistics of killing 25 million Americans.

For the record, I'm voting "no" for president.

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Obama's public persona isnt remotely Marxist and anyone who thinks it is has a superficial understanding of Marx and probably hasnt read more than the Communist Manifesto (if even that).

Regarding Obama's intelligence, you cant really judge him on his public persona because his speeches exist in a political climate which is geared towards soundbites and anti-intellectualism. No mainstream American politician is going to come across as being intelligent, because intelligence isnt a value which is currently respected in mainstream American politics. I remember reading some accounts of Obama written by his former students though, and they pretty much all agreed that he came across as extremely intelligent while working in academia, and they felt that his political speeches were very dumbed down (which is to be expected).

What do they mean by "dumbed down"? He used bigger/smarter words in the classroom than he does in his political speeches? I don't get it.

Edited by dadmonson

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Again with the theocracy... there is NO threat whatsoever of a theocracy.

Can someone name the last time a Christian takeover of a free or semi-free democracy occurred? Are there examples of Christian theocracies existing in the world today?

Then list the number of free states that have fallen to left-wing takeovers.

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Again with the theocracy... there is NO threat whatsoever of a theocracy.

That's not actually what David said.

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Again with the theocracy... there is NO threat whatsoever of a theocracy. There is threat, however, of our country becoming so burdened with government regulation and taxes that our economy collapses, giving a good opportunity for the rise of fascism.

In the short term, republicans would be a huge danger to individual rights, as they are on the verge of taking over the Supreme Court, which is supposed to uphold individual rights in this country: instead, with one more Republican appointment to the Court, they will without any doubt allow State Legislatures to decide on individual rights in each state, and that would be the end of a free America, and the Constitutional Republic as we know it.

David of course said exactly that, he did not say McCain will turn the US into a theocracy. Of course, the end of individual rights, which we are so close to, will be a huge step in the direction of a dictatorship, most likely a religious one.

As far as fascism being caused by economic conditions, that is just silly: fascism is caused by ideology, and enabled by a lack of strong principles, like the ones that caused America to uphold individual rights through recessions, wars and even the Great Depression. Those principles are in danger now because of the Republicans, and their ideology is the only one growing dangerously.

Edited by Jake_Ellison

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there is NO threat whatsoever of a theocracy. There is threat, however, of our country becoming so burdened with government regulation and taxes that our economy collapses, giving a good opportunity for the rise of fascism.
I'd suggest that you pay more attention to the power of the religious right: Sarah Palin, Mike Huckabee, Pat Robertson, Judge Roy Moore; pay attention to South Dakota and its 2006 ban on abortion brought about by the religious right. Pay attention when these guys talk about the US as a "Christian Nation", and start enacting laws that reflect and enact their religious beliefs. Take note of their underlying theory of jurisprudence and the special status of religious-based laws like DOMA. These laws can have a special pernicious element, the element of "being above the law" (the MPA: No court created by Act of Congress shall have any jurisdiction, and the Supreme Court shall have no appellate jurisdiction, to hear or decide any question pertaining to the interpretation of, or the validity under the Constitution of, section 1738C or this section" and similar provisions). This is the thin end of the fascist wedge that we have to worry about. We will have definitely have taxes under either McCain or O'bama: what you should be concerned with is the imposition of new kinds of fascism. At present, I'm quite certain that the current SCOTUS would overturn on constitutional grounds any such "law that is above constitutional challenge" laws, by a vote of 5-4, and equally certain that this whole new form of fascism would be upheld under a court that replaces Stevens with someone of the Scalia-Roberts ilk.

Please note that the election of Roosevelt did not lead immediately and directly to a communist dictatorship, and neither will the election of Obama. The proper concern is not the immediate future, the next 4 years; it is the long term. What direction is American politics going? It is veering towards religion, the absolute and principled repudiation of reason. This is the threat that America faces, and consideration of that fact easily leads to the conclusion that Obama is the lesser of two evils. By about 2%.

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I don't understand how any Objectivist could honestly vote for Obama.

Because recent events in my personal life have made the subject of gay civil-unions a top value to me, and there is more likelihood that civil-unions would be forcibly recognized in my state of Utah under Obama than under McCain. Plain and simple. I would be willing to suffer through everything else Obama would do if it meant I got that one value out of it.

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Barack Obama is an intellectual lightweight, a puny mind indeed. Even Arnold Schwarzenegger said Obama needs to put some meat on his ideas -- and on his arms & legs.

You might say Obama graduated from Harvard, yet Bush graduated from Harvard & Yale. You might say Bush's daddy got him into Harvard & Yale, but Obama's daddy's skin color got him into Harvard via affirmative action.

Anyone can read Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto and then pit the bourgeoisie (business-owning class) against the proletariat (working class) as a way to rise to power. Very little minds have done this throughout history: Obama's relative Odinga in Kenya, Chavez in Venezuela, Castro in Cuba, Mugabe in Zimbabwe, Mao in China, Lenin in Russia.

Barack Obama is a media-created phony, a power-luster who would call his own grandmother a white racist if that would help him gain power. He is a non-entity, an anti-American cipher whose mentors are intellectually bereft:

* Frank Marshall Davis (Communist Party USA member)

* Saul Alinsky (radical socialist)

* Jeremiah Wright (religious Marxist)

* William Ayers (Marxist/Leninist)

* Bernardine Dohrn (Marxist/Leninist)

Obama wrote in his autobiography that he sought out his friends and Marxist professors carefully. His father Barack Hussein Obama Sr. was an Islamic socialist. His brother is an Islamic socialist. His relative Odinga is an Islamic socialist.

In fact, Obama is the first anti-American presidential candidate in American history. He despises America and wants to change it to the small-minded socio-fascism of his mentors.

But all is not lost. Obama can leave Plato's cave of shadowy illusions to enter the real world of reality, honesty, productivity, individual liberty and happiness that America's Founding Fathers established. Then Obama can grow into full human stature with a mature mind and someday perhaps become a great statesman.

Spoken like the true mental midget that you are. ;)

All that you are saying here is sheer, unadulterated nonsense.

I have never read a more compelling argument for a religious fascist theocracy than when I read your post.

Is that what you proclaim is an alternative to Obama?

Is that why you spread all these outright lies about him?

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Electing Obama will not lead to a marxian/communist dream, nor will electing McCain set up a born again theocracy. Checks and balances still exist, and obviously radical changes won't be stomached by the public. THIS IS THE BAD NEWS. The problem is either candidate will continue to errode our no longer inalienable rights in sugar-coated doses easy for the public to swallow. This slower degredation of liberty is what we must fear. Arguing over who would be less effective at this syphoning of rights, and advocating voting for them is flawed. It is correct that, as someone in this thread said, voting no won't stop one of these men from taking office, however, since when do we give consent to evil just because we can't stop it? They may be able to rob me of my rights no matter what I do, but I will NEVER give them my consent to do so.

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Just to clarify: Saying that I don't understand how an Oist can vote for Obama, was not my way of tacitly endorsing McCain. I abhor both and will not vote for either. I hear people arguing over who is better and it seems like a false dichotomy to me. You can choose your master, but you cannot choose to not be a slave. It seems to me that voting for one of two evils gives sanction to the evil they perpitrate.

I understand completely the distate for McCain and the right especially in regards to religion. I do not share the idea that we will be pushed into a theocracy. It seems like the push into further socialism with more government controls is a sure thing, and that seem like it will happen regardless of the who is elected.

I agree that Obama poses less of a threat to individual rights. However, further economic controls left unchallenged don't seem to bode well for individuals either, not over the long run.

I question as to whether the United States is even capable of becoming a free nation where liberty is paramount. Watching and listening to people around me and on TV makes me awfully cynical. It's disheartening. Speaking of disheartening... I have to leave for the dentist!

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I just heard to opening of Sean Hannity's radio show (which is not something I usually do, but thought I'd give it a listen today) and heard the following quote from Mr. Obama after talking about how McCain/Palin are casting him as a Socialist/Communist: (Use a very sarcastic voice): "John McCain and Sarah Palin they call this socialistic. You know I don’t know when, when they decided they wanted to make a virtue out of selfishness."

Here is more: "...we’ve made a virtue out of selfishness, there’s no virtue in that."

I don't think there is any coincedence or accident in that turn of phrase. There may be objectivists that accept Obama, but there he is rejecting you.

Edited by Weyoun42

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What direction is American politics going? It is veering towards religion, the absolute and principled repudiation of reason. This is the threat that America faces, and consideration of that fact easily leads to the conclusion that Obama is the lesser of two evils. By about 2%.

I’m afraid I must disagree. Ten years ago I would have agreed but not now. To me it seems the wind has been taken out of the Religious Right’s sails. Today, especially among youth there seems to be a disregard for religion especially in the John Stewart set that seems to make fun at every opportunity. In the universities and in the press religion seems to be associated with the “ignorant American’ image. You list Huckabee as a threat but he couldn’t even get his own parties nomination let alone sway other voters. Look at the movie Religoulous religion is openly mocked as well as viewed as being out of touch.

I see socialism and Environmentalism as the new threat both of which run on the same principles of Religion. Abortion and school prayer are no longer the major issues. We live in a day were the Government is here and now nationalizing businesses and CEO’s and Wall street are viewed as villains in the press and the biggest issues of the election are nationalized medicine and caps on carbon emission. All these things will effect me here and now and well into the future.

This is the way I see it. However, knowing David he will come back with some compelling augment that will change my mind. So what do you think?

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Just to clarify: Saying that I don't understand how an Oist can vote for Obama, was not my way of tacitly endorsing McCain. I abhor both and will not vote for either. I hear people arguing over who is better and it seems like a false dichotomy to me. You can choose your master, but you cannot choose to not be a slave. It seems to me that voting for one of two evils gives sanction to the evil they perpitrate.
Well, if your question had been "How can any Objectivist honestly support Obama", that would be a different matter. The right higher-order question is "How can an Objectivist vote at all given the comparability of the evils we're presented with?". We know one fact for certain: that one of McCain or Obama will be elected. The other thing we know with fairly sure is that it could actually matter how you vote. So a rational man must act as though his vote is decisive, and must with great care decide which is the lesser of two evils.

So it's not a false dichotomy: it's a true dichotomy. Either McCain will be president, or Obama will be present. No other alternatives are possible -- a real, actual dichotomy. We are not acting to express our opinion as to who woul be the best imaginable president, we are acting to actually determine which one of two it will be.

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Well, if your question had been "How can any Objectivist honestly support Obama", that would be a different matter. The right higher-order question is "How can an Objectivist vote at all given the comparability of the evils we're presented with?". We know one fact for certain: that one of McCain or Obama will be elected. The other thing we know with fairly sure is that it could actually matter how you vote. So a rational man must act as though his vote is decisive, and must with great care decide which is the lesser of two evils.

So it's not a false dichotomy: it's a true dichotomy. Either McCain will be president, or Obama will be present. No other alternatives are possible -- a real, actual dichotomy. We are not acting to express our opinion as to who woul be the best imaginable president, we are acting to actually determine which one of two it will be.

I see your point and greatly appreciate your explanation. Perhaps some day our options will be better. I certainly agree with you that a vote can matter, especially in Ohio. Thanks again, your posts are always interesting and thought provoking (and usually thought-clarifying).

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As far as fascism being caused by economic conditions, that is just silly: fascism is caused by ideology, and enabled by a lack of strong principles, like the ones that caused America to uphold individual rights through recessions, wars and even the Great Depression. Those principles are in danger now because of the Republicans, and their ideology is the only one growing dangerously.

Germany. 1930's. 'nuff said.

I'd suggest that you pay more attention to the power of the religious right: Sarah Palin, Mike Huckabee, Pat Robertson, Judge Roy Moore; pay attention to South Dakota and its 2006 ban on abortion brought about by the religious right. Pay attention when these guys talk about the US as a "Christian Nation", and start enacting laws that reflect and enact their religious beliefs. Take note of their underlying theory of jurisprudence and the special status of religious-based laws like DOMA. These laws can have a special pernicious element, the element of "being above the law" (the MPA: No court created by Act of Congress shall have any jurisdiction, and the Supreme Court shall have no appellate jurisdiction, to hear or decide any question pertaining to the interpretation of, or the validity under the Constitution of, section 1738C or this section" and similar provisions). This is the thin end of the fascist wedge that we have to worry about. We will have definitely have taxes under either McCain or O'bama: what you should be concerned with is the imposition of new kinds of fascism. At present, I'm quite certain that the current SCOTUS would overturn on constitutional grounds any such "law that is above constitutional challenge" laws, by a vote of 5-4, and equally certain that this whole new form of fascism would be upheld under a court that replaces Stevens with someone of the Scalia-Roberts ilk.

Please note that the election of Roosevelt did not lead immediately and directly to a communist dictatorship, and neither will the election of Obama. The proper concern is not the immediate future, the next 4 years; it is the long term. What direction is American politics going? It is veering towards religion, the absolute and principled repudiation of reason. This is the threat that America faces, and consideration of that fact easily leads to the conclusion that Obama is the lesser of two evils. By about 2%.

Obama gives many references to religion in his speeches. He's the first democrat to really use the bible like it is most effective: as a socialist manifesto.

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Germany. 1930's. 'nuff said.

You should read "The Ominous Parallels". Peikoff does a good job of explaining the philosophical trends that lead to Nazi Germany. As mentioned above, the US went through the Great Depression and we didn't become a fascist state. There is more to it than a bad economy.

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My objections is that some people on this board like you, Mammon, seem to never accept ANY criticism of Obama whatsoever. So I would just like to ask - for the record Mammon, et al, what do you NOT like about Obama? Let's hear YOUR criticisms. If you don't have any - then I simply fail to see how you could belong here - that's not an ad hominem attack, it is a brutal fact. If you have no attacks against Obama, then are you saying he is a perfect, pro-capitalist lassaiz-faire Objectivist candidate? If not then you must have SOMETHING critical to say. I want to hear it just once before this election is over.. please? Lemme hear something!

Still hoping for a response here, Mammon.

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Still hoping for a response here, Mammon.

Uh, yeah, I've been waiting for his "the financial crisis is all about fractional reserve banking" post for a couple of weeks now.

Good luck with that.

Edited by KendallJ

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