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What to expect in the next 4 years

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Here is what to expect in the next four years with an Obama/Pelosi/Reid government:

* Time Magazine's Man of the Year: Barack Obama

* Islamic terrorists will hit America hard, perhaps with Iranian nuclear devices, wiping out between 100,000 to 10,000,000 Americans

* Super inflation for consumer goods

* Destruction of domestic auto industry by government forcing US auto makers to make cars most people do not want to buy

* Increase in income, capital gains, dividends, corporate, estate taxes

* Greatly expand number of citizens dependent on government for survival

* Rise of political entrepreneurs as market entrepreneurs withdraw from society

* Curtail military while expanding entitlement programs

* Silence political opposition via Fairness Doctrine, Hate Speech laws, approval committees for radio stations

* And finally, blame Bush for society's ills

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I am not afraid of attacks from Iran or foreign countries as much as I am from internal problems. Class warfare, economic HELL, lost of free speech (for people the statists in gov disagree with) , etc.

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I don't like Obama either but come on, its not going to be that bad.

It's not only going to be that bad, it's probably going to be worse--much worse. People have not fully come to grips that Americans have elected one of the more evil men in history. Them me repeat that, the American people elected this man. This is a sign of the collapse of America as it was. Don't believe me? Wait and see.

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I agree with Anthem. This sounds like far-right wing pre-election propoganda. Al Queda has been so weakened that they wouldn't be able to make it past Liberia much less all the way to the U.S. Isreal will take out Iran before they ever get the chance to do anything regardless of Obama's existence.

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* Time Magazine's Man of the Year: Barack Obama

Agreed.

* Islamic terrorists will hit America hard, perhaps with Iranian nuclear devices, wiping out between 100,000 to 10,000,000 Americans

Do you have any objective basis for this comment?

* Super inflation for consumer goods

The coming inflation has absolutely nothing to do with Obama. We will have super inflation in the coming decade even if Jesus Christ was elected President.

* Destruction of domestic auto industry by government forcing US auto makers to make cars most people do not want to buy

I guess you haven't been following the auto industry within the last 30 years, because this has already happened.

* Increase in income, capital gains, dividends, corporate, estate taxes

Again, this is inevitable, it doesn't matter who our President is. Besides, an increase in taxes is not inherently bad. For example, if the government said "We are going to increase taxes for the next 5 years, pay off all Treasury debt, end the Social Security Program, welfare payments, and get government out of the economy" then that would be an admirable end.

* Greatly expand number of citizens dependent on government for survival

Again, this is inevitable. The number of citizens dependent on govt for survival should increase at roughly the same rate as the increase in population.

* Rise of political entrepreneurs as market entrepreneurs withdraw from society

Agreed.

* Curtail military while expanding entitlement programs

Not sure, haven't heard anything about this. What is your proof of this?

* Silence political opposition via Fairness Doctrine, Hate Speech laws, approval committees for radio stations

Possibly. That would be a travesty.

* And finally, blame Bush for society's ills

Uh, turn on the news...that's been happening for the last eight years.

Edited by adrock3215

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It is not going to be that bad. Obama will be a real pragmatist like Nixon was. Some of his collectivist ideas might be implemented, but even he (and his cohorts) can not see where the money for all of this is going to come from. They also know that they can not just print it and get away with it. Remember that Obama wants to have 2 terms, so he will be careful.

Just because the new administration is left leaning does not mean that they are stupid. So it is not all just gloom and doom.

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Here is what to expect in the next four years with an Obama/Pelosi/Reid government:
I plan to dredge this up in 4 years and demand that you acknowledge that you were wrong. I would put your list up there with the prophecies of Nostradamus or Jeanne Dixon's psychic predictions in rational foundation and indeed even refutability. Although the "Man of the Year" prediction is trivial. Trivia question: which American predident has not been Man of the Year since they started doing this?

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Ugh, and here I thought this Alarmist non-sense would stop after he got elected.

Now that he's elected he can actually start following through on his plans though. I have a hard time understanding how anyone can actually think this guy won't actually "be that bad".

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Now that he's elected he can actually start following through on his plans though. I have a hard time understanding how anyone can actually think this guy won't actually "be that bad".

Well, he's not technically the president-elect until mid-December. :D

But I'm not getting my hopes up.

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See my post above.

I did and here is what I come up with:

Fireball listed 10 predictions.

--2 of those items you agreed with

--3 you said were inevitable

--1 you said was possible

--2 have already happened

That leave only two predictions out of ten that are in dispute. By my calculations, that means you agree with roughly 80% of his post.

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Since some of us are making predictions, here's one: The unions get their card check law passed as a political payoff for a job well done in this past election. They then go and put on a major push to organize Walmart. Their efforts eventually succeed and the unions cripple another American company.

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That leave only two predictions out of ten that are in dispute. By my calculations, that means you agree with roughly 80% of his post.

Actually most his predictions are in dispute. The thesis of this guy's post is that these things will come true because Obama is President. I would claim:

1. Some of these things have already occurred, and therefore have nothing to do with Obama as President.

and

2. Several of these things are inevitable, and they therefore have nothing to do with Obama as President either, for they would have happened under any President.

The rest I agree with on the basis of Obama as President. For example, if Obama did not win the Presidency, then it is unlikely that he would be named Time's Man of the Year while being President.

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I think this has less overall to do with Obama. Our entire federal government is beyond corruption, and it has been building for decades now.

Fiat money + bailouts + higher taxes + government corruption and intervention = Super hyper mega inflation.

Super hyper mega inflation = food riots, breakdown of society and infrastructure.

It's not really hard to see. We've been complicit in allowing these jerk-offs to run our country for too long, and we're about to experience the results.

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Super hyper mega inflation

LOL, now that is an exaggeration. In fact, "Super inflation for consumer goods" is the one line item on Fireball's list that I don't think is at least a distinct possibility. As long as the money supply is in the government's hand, inflation is going to happen whenever the government wants it to happen, and will be just as severe as the government wants it to be. I don't see Obama wanting to cause a super-inflation (nor a super hyper mega inflation, for that matter)--he has plenty of other ways of undermining the American economy.

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Well, my first post which was trashed (rummage around in the trash can if you care enough to read it) was actually a reference to a video game. In the game, this group of people (cat people) think that if these ridiculous prophecies come true then the world was ending. This Demon Prince of Madness hires you to manufacture these things in order to essentially drive the population insane, and because he thinks it's hilarious. So, that's my answer to unreasonable gloom and doom scenarios -- flaming dogs falling from the sky.

In the allegory there is a message though. A lot of messages actually. People will believe whatever they want and find evidence to back it up, no matter how nutty the whole thing might be. I get the metaphorical impression here that some see the signs they made coming true and that some see someone behind the scenes doing all this for some dark unknown malevolent purpose. It fits into my overall theory that all prophecies are self-fulling. Meaning, if I say that the end of the world will be marked by flaming dead dogs flying from the skies, then someone can launch a whole bunch of them into space and let them fall down, thus fulfilling the prophecy. Or they can say that the dogs represent crashing planes, like in a war. Someone is going to make happen what they want to, or going to find a way to interpret the events to match the prophecy.

This same thing could be said about predictions in general. That's why it's important to make it clear what you're actually predicting and why -- like I did here. I wanted to bet against the odds, and I wanted to test the predictions market here. I definitely didn't make the right prediction, but I'm not going to go back and pretend I said anything different.

It's relevant because if you make the prediction like "the economy is going to hell because of Obama" there will be a tendency to look for signs to match that and only that. One could ignore any positive signs or anything to the contrary. One might be determined to think this, so thats all one can see. Having to deal with these issues on a constant basis I can say with certainty that economic issues are hardly ever what they seem. I had a professor who said that economy issues are like onions, people take the wrapping off and just assume what there is all there is without really going into the layers.

Speaking of which, I could go off calling all the people saying "it wont be that bad" Obama supporters, quasi-Objectivist, or something similar to make a huge hyperbolic point. But, it's going to get lost.

Instead, I'll do what adrock did,

* Time Magazine's Man of the Year: Barack Obama

If I'm not mistaken, pretty much every President of the United States has gotten this distinction ever since it's been done. That's like saying Obama will eat breakfast at the White House during his administration. It might not happen, but even I'm not betting against those odds.

* Islamic terrorists will hit America hard, perhaps with Iranian nuclear devices, wiping out between 100,000 to 10,000,000 Americans

First off, where is your evidence for this? It's what's to be expected but, why? Because a new president is elected doesn't mean that military, the CIA, FBI, NSA and others just disappear. It's funny you mention Iranian nukes, because this administration doesn't seem to want to let Iran gets nukes, or anyone else for that matter.

* Super inflation for consumer goods

That depends largely on the actions of the Fed, which is (at least somewhat) independent of the President. If Bernanke and Paulson want to run the mills like the Weimer Republic that's their choice. But I don't think they are that ignorant. This administration might spend a lot, but there are other ways to get the money then (basically) printing* it.

Also, what could cause "super inflation" is the break out of war. Although in recent years we've seen some similar levels of inflation without the wars, it's still rare and it's still war that usually provokes inflation. Ending our current engagement in Iraq would/could/should actually help slow down inflation (as would some other things, but that's too long to get into and you can probably take a guess at it.)

* Destruction of domestic auto industry by government forcing US auto makers to make cars most people do not want to buy

Again, as adrock pointed out, this has been happening for years already. It's not going to be any different in the next 4 years and if it is (as in it the government stops) then I think everyone will be shocked.

* Increase in income, capital gains, dividends, corporate, estate taxes

That could go either way actually, has there already been a proposal to increase these things? If not we can just sit back and hold our breaths.

* Greatly expand number of citizens dependent on government for survival

Well, the same thing was said about Clinton and he reduced the size of the welfare state. What makes you (or anyone else who feels like responding) think this exactly?

* Rise of political entrepreneurs as market entrepreneurs withdraw from society

This is an interesting observation actually. I've noticed the only entrepreneurs who go into government are the ones that totally failed or the ones that are very ideological and principled, who've tried their hand at running a business and now want to run a government. If we get more of the latter, that might not bad. But, already government has a lot of those "failures" in it's midst.

* Curtail military while expanding entitlement programs

Again, where is the evidence for this?

* Silence political opposition via Fairness Doctrine, Hate Speech laws, approval committees for radio stations

To the extent of my knowledge the Fairness Doctrine doesn't make political opposition cease, it just demands that opposing view points are presented on controversial "public issues". I'm sure this isn't going to stop guys like Rush Limbaugh.

Also, since the ARI opposes just about everyone on the radio today, maybe this can give them a big break!** :P

* And finally, blame Bush for society's ills

Society is already doing this, and it will continue, so you're right! Everyone from all over society is blaming Bush, even his own party. An Obama/Reid/Pelosi run government isn't going to change or stop that.

In conclusion, I know Fireball won't respond to these posts because he doesn't do that. Recent record shows he makes these posts and leaves us to argue amongst ourselves about them. A fireball that starts flames? I wonder. I'm going to go with DavidOdden on this and say we should dredge it up in four years. On that note, I'm still waiting for Bush to declare himself king! ;)

*This is a simplification for the sake of simplicity

**This is a joke.

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...some see the signs they made coming true and that some see someone behind the scenes doing all this for some dark unknown malevolent purpose.

I don't think there's anyone "behind the scenes" orchestrating some dark plot. I tend to subscribe to the Occam's razor theory, in that, all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be correct. In this case, unprincipled and bad governance simply yields bad and predictable results.

While I don't necessarily agree with all of the list of predictions at the top of this thread, I think some of them are highly plausible. I might even add a few of my own, such as "More firearm regulations that criminalize law-abiding citizens." And let's be clear here: Obama isn't even necessary for these to happen. Our whole damn system is corrupt.

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While I don't necessarily agree with all of the list of predictions at the top of this thread, I think some of them are highly plausible. I might even add a few of my own, such as "More firearm regulations that criminalize law-abiding citizens." And let's be clear here: Obama isn't even necessary for these to happen. Our whole damn system is corrupt.

Exactly. The same list could easily have served as predictions for a McCain presidency. Obama, if anything, will be even worse.

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Yes. Obama will push harder for this stuff, McCain at best would have simply not opposed it much and at worst would have been almost as enthusiastic as Obama.

Case in point, firearms. McCain got an F rating from Gun Owners of America because he actively campaigned for measures to close the so-called "gun show loophole" in other states (such as, goddamnit, Colorado, where it, godf***ingdamnit, passed). OTOH I don't know of him being a full-blown gun-grabber. He might have gone along with a gun-grabbing (as opposed to making commerce a bit more difficult) bit of legislation because he probably doesn't really give a flying f*** about the issue, but I doubt he'd originate it. Obama on the other hand, once he has his head above the water on the economy and having us cut and run from Iraq, will probably try to really put the screws to gun owners. In fact, he can kill two birds with one stone by proposing huge tax increases on either guns or ammo now (after all the government "needs" the revenue, right?) so I expect something like that to come up sooner than actual straightforward legal restrictions like the "Crime Bill" of 1994 (an ironically appropriate name).

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Not sure, haven't heard anything about this. What is your proof of this?

You're kidding right?

Leaving aside the demand for "proof" of a prediction, have you heard anything about Obama, his attitude towards the military or towards entitlement programs?

Not that cutting defense is a bad idea - a Pentagon study recommends just that - but "some" in Congress have been advocating deep cuts, and it's unlikely those cuts will be resisted given the deep deficits we are about to face.

OTOH, Obama has, in his long an illustrated career, advocated for the "right" to homeownership (ACORN), the "right" to reparations (Rev. Wright & BLT), and the more general "right" to the property of rich people ("spreading the wealth around"). It's at least as unlikely these "rights" will be "abridged" by an Obama administration, given the tough times the "middle class" is about to face.

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To the extent of my knowledge the Fairness Doctrine doesn't make political opposition cease, it just demands that opposing view points are presented on controversial "public issues".

Do you think it is proper, Mammon, for the state to "demand" such things from private industry? Are you familiar with such things as freedom of speech? Individual liberty? Objectivism?

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People have not fully come to grips that Americans have elected one of the more evil men in history.

Oh give me a break.

I've been very critical of people who treat Obama like he's the second coming of Christ, but I'd be inconsistent if I wasn't equally critical of

these visions of the coming apocalypse. One of the more evil men in history? Really? I don't agree with the guy's politics, but "evil?"

In other news: THE SKY IS FALLING!

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