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Who's Property?

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BetTheFarm

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Interested in opinions on this topic.

I purchased an antique glass sign from an individual about 800 miles away. He had it shipped UPS and paid for insurance (about $300). It did not arrive, nor did any explanation from the UPS, but here is what I discovered on their website by entering the tracking number:"THE PACKAGE WAS DAMAGED IN TRANSIT. UPS WILL NOTIFY THE SENDER WITH THE DETAILS;ALL MERCHANDISE DISCARDED. UPS WILL NOTIFY THE SENDER WITH DETAILS OF THE DAMAGE"

In other words, the UPS saw fit to dispose of MY property without my consent (or even the consultation of either myself or the shipper.) I was very angry about this yesterday, but, as usual, it is impossible to find anyone who is "responsible" to whom to express my frustrations.

In reality, the item was effectively a complete loss since it was a glass sign and apparently shattered (I have no way to confirm it simply wasn't stolen.) I am upset about the principle involved, that being, my property was "discarded" without my consent.

Opinions?

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It is unfortunate that that happened to you, I can understand how frustrated you must be. I assume that you will be refunded the money you paid for the sign. When you agreed to have the sign shipped UPS you trusted them with your property, accidents do happen. If you truly feel that UPS wronged you, I suggest never doing business with them again. Chalk this one up to bad luck and move on, there's not much else you can do.

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I had a slightly related problem with them overcharging a shipment to me (paid by me) where they charged me twice their published rate. The significant point of similarity is that I cannot get them to acknowledge my written protests and nobody is willing to take responsibility. The may have some kind of "ignore it and it will go away" policy; which in a sense worked, because we're not doing business with UPS anymore.

In your case, there is an issue about "your property". UPS doesn't have any obligation to you, but rather has a business relationship and an obligation to the vendor. They cannot know whether the item is your property, nor should they be expected to inquire into issues of ownership. Since the contract is between them and the vendor, you are out of that loop. On the other hand, you have a business relationship with the vendor to the effect that he has not completed his end of the bargain and therefore if he has already received payment from you, you are owed a refund.

It is quite possible that the terms of the agreement between UPS and the vendor address the question of goods damaged in transit. It cannot be automatically assumed that UPS was negligent in performing their duties, so the vendor does not have an automatic right to a free return of the damaged goods. There maybe be some clause that says, for example, that UPS will dispose of any goods that are irretrievably damaged, unless the shipper agrees to pay for return shipment of the corpse. In such a case, I'd think "Well, what's the point of me paying $50 to get a bunch of smashed glass returned to me?", and I would decline the "return damaged goods at your expense" option (which may be implicit: the agreement may say that you have to explicitly request corpse-return service).

So while this may be another example of a general bad customer relations problem, it's not a violation of your property rights.

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I purchased an antique glass sign from an individual about 800 miles away.  He had it shipped UPS and paid for insurance (about $300).

He had it shipped and he paid for the insurance? It sounds like UPS is liable to him, not to you, and that HE is in turn liable to YOU.

If your contract with the seller had terms making the property yours before it shipped, then it would have been more proper for you to arrange a pickup rather than him paying for the shipment.

If your contract specified that the transfer of ownership happened when you recieved the goods, then the seller should refund your money.

That's my completely unprofessional opinion. Any lawyer can feel free to come blast it apart. ;)

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You both mention good points that I hadn't thought about. My assumption was that the transfer of ownership occurred when the money was exchanged. In other words, at no time would one party "own" both the merchandise and the money, though one party may have both in his possession at the same time. I see how this probably isn't consistent with UPS's perspective. They don't concern themselves with ownership, but rather "shipper" and "receiver".

Thanks for your responses.

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