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Depression

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Most "therapists" are the blind leading the blind. There are about as many rational people in mental health as there are in social welfare.

This is because the two are linked. Let's not forget that many people go into mental health care for altruistic ("social welfare") reasons. This is the crux of the mental health problem.

I've often wondered whether it is cause or effect: that is, does the study of mental health attract lunatics or produce them?

My experience has been that it's both. People are attracted to the mental health field because of their altrusitic bents. Adding insult to injury, many people want to study psychology to "work through" their own issues. Once in the field, they are exposed to more and more rubbish and their altruism becomes further ingrained.

I am a fine example of this. I went to social work school before I had any knowledge of Objectivism. I don't know how I did it - given the ideas I was exposed to, I sometimes think that if I can find Objectivism, anyone can.... Anyway, the problem is that these programs stress altruism. But, if you think about it, how can you teach self-esteem to people when deep down, you abhor self-esteem?

Years later, after discovering Objectivism, I still work in mental health. My philosophical leanings make this quite difficult as they run against so much of what my peers purport. Some examples:

1) I don't buy into the "disease" model of alcoholism. Cancer is a disease, picking up a bottle is not.

2) Modern psychology seems fixated on the false concept that "the rich are unhappy." If this is true, we need to solve the problem that the rich are wrongly guilted for their productivity. The solution is to value productivity and purpose, not debase yourself and give part of yourself over to the unearned.

3) I don't believe that ADD and depression are "diseases."

4) No one should be seeing the same therapist for years and years. If you had a medical problem and your doctor was not fixing it, would you stay with that doctor? Contrary to what many think, "the relationship" should not be the primary focus of therapy. If you've been with the same therapist for more than a few months and you aren't getting better, GET OUT FAST. Additionally, rational therapy is cognitive in nature, not "psychoanalytic."

Michael Hurd, an Objectivist psychologist, has written a couple great books on this topic.

Anyway, the point is, it is possible for Objectivists to work in the mental health field. It's rare, for the reasons I've stated above... but we are out there.

Edited by Tabitha
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Unfortunately, the mental health profession is a fairly new science, and therefore it did not get a proper grounding due to the influence of really bad philosophy. As I've mentioned before, medication from a psychiatrist will not make one rational, but it may be helpful enough that, with reason, one can recuperate to a normal life. Psychology is still in its infancy, and so it is very difficult to find a good therapist that will do more than hear you out as a sounding board without giving great advise as to help you overcome your confusions and clashes in the subconscious. Nonetheless, talking to a professional and being self-observing as to whether it is helping or not is crucial. I tend to agree that if one is seeing a mental health professional therapist for years, then you are probably not being helped sufficiently; however, medications might have to be taken for years and one needs to keep in touch with a psychiatrist to monitor one's reactions to the medications.

In my opinion, they aren't witch doctors :wacko: but it is difficult to find good help. Like anything else, it's buyer beware.

I do agree that qua profession they tend to be altruistic, but that is because I don't think anyone has really come to understand how psychological problems are due to personal actions or decisions -- they tend to focus more on one's environment rather than one's state of mind in many cases, and are often rationalistic when it comes to assessing one's problems. Unfortunately, it not as specific as, say, physics, which had a better beginning due to a better scientific and philosophical foundation. Still, cognitive therapy is the best available; and the medications are very specific. So judge them for yourself as to how well they are helping.

With that said, psychological problems can be complex enough that one may have therapy for years without any real effect on one's mental health. It all depends on how well the therapist can determine the cause of one's problems and offer a remedy to the patient. In other words, until the whole field is improved by better science and better philosophy, one must be vigilant in assessing one's own mental health as one is seeing a doctor.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Today I had to do a drug and alcohol assessment for a DUI arrest that occurred last June. The woman who administered the assessment was utterly batshit insane. Among other things, she babbled at length about how she does not believe that there is a right or wrong, said that she never judges anyone, and insisted that it is not possible for me to determine for myself whether I have an alcohol problem (even though I haven't had a drink in 10 months) because I do not have a college degree in psychology. When I politely stated that I do not accept the beliefs of mental health professionals, she accused me of being "aggressive" and said that she thinks I'm "pretty damn arrogant." She was totally scatterbrained in general and almost nothing she said made any sense whatsoever. It was truly a frightening experience.

Edited by cliveandrews
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I had a very positive response to the medication I took for depression (and the therapy I received) after I was robbed years ago. The drugs helped pull me out of my dangerous funk while I was working my way through therapy. I think the main thing is to find good doctors and therapists, although that can be quite difficult and expensive. Learning about Objectivism tied up all the remaining loose ends and really would've have helped me even more, had I known about it at the time I was doing drug and psychotherapy.

Edited by K-Mac
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  • 2 months later...

I am very much in agreement with you, Mr.Movias, in what I see as your rational approach and methodology to the problem of depression. Introspection, and constantly checking my premises, has also been my lifelong practice. Rightly,too, you pay some respect - it seems - to the application of psychology/psychiatry, used selectively and wisely.

Elsewhere in this thread there are other opinions that are disturbing to me. To automatically banish all psychology and psychiatry, because rationality must overcome all inherent mental problems, is I believe, potentially dangerous.

Speaking as one who is a rational self- determinist, and who knows something about depression, my advice is not to view all depression, whether caused by trauma, or by hereditary pre-disposition, [brain chemicals], as imaginary, self-inflicted, or a 'cop-out.' And most definitely I advise against considering depression as a 'fault' of one's emotions or subconscious, that can be corrected by Rationality alone.

This is not an emotional issue; brain scans bear this out. BUT, naturally one's feeling of self-efficacy will be compromised by depression, and that will affect one's emotions.

Please don't overlook psychology. I will very likely get heavily criticized for saying this, but what the hell. For me, very basically, psychology is what was 'done' to me, (by nature or nurture); and philosophy (Objectivism) is what I choose to become. Works for me. :lol:

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