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Charles T.

Christmas: Celebrate, Replace, Rename or Ignore?

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What would you re-name Christmas, if you could? I'd sure like to see that name removed from the day, and "X-mas" doesn't quite cut it.

Randmas, perhaps? :)

How about Giftmas?

I kind of like that one, but I'm not the most creative guy.

Please, let's hear some other suggestions.

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What would you re-name Christmas, if you could? 

Capitalism day!

The day when Robber Barron comes and brings presents for all the little boys and girls to buy.

Many Americans already celebrate a form of Capitalism day.

-- Josh

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Winter solstice.

Though originally a pagan holiday I believe, it is a secular celebraton life during the shortest day of the winter, or so I'm told.

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Sir Issac Newton was born on Christmas day, so I like to joke that with his birth (and subsequent invention of classical mechanics and the technology that ensued) came the Enlightenment, where most of the ideas of reason, rights, etc., were historically germinated. However, maybe not such a bad idea.

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Abolish Christmas and make the New Year the grand holiday of the year. That's the holiday my family always celebrated around. We had the New Year tree, New Year decorations, a New Year Santa Claus bringing wonderful gifts for me to find on New Year's morning, etc.

There's also a considerable emotional, solemn, charge attached to the New Year celebration - remembering the year past, celebrating all the good things that happened, thinking about the coming year, receiving gifts to help us and inspire us in this new year, etc.

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There's no reason, other than bitter hostility, to rename Christmas. It's just the name of a holiday. It's not like anyone forces you to celebrate it in a religious way. I sure don't, but I refuse to call it anything other than Christmas.

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There's no reason, other than bitter hostility, to rename Christmas.  It's just the name of a holiday.  It's not like anyone forces you to celebrate it in a religious way.  I sure don't, but I refuse to call it anything other than Christmas.

I could name a few reasons: Christmas is not just gift-giving day; it is also tied in with Christianity and Altruism. By renaming it, (or, more properly, celebrating a differant concept on the same day of the year) we create our own holiday. Just like the Christians did when they invented Christmas to displace the pagan winter solstace.

And, aren't I allowed to be just a little bit bitter toward Christianity?

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This is a real funny conversation, I'll tell why.....

First of all: When u talk of renaming Christmas, you already in a sense conisder the festival important enough to remain in the first place.

What would renaming do ?

Besides, what significance do you attach to time or date of this celebration beacuse you still choose to celebrate it?

Talk some sense people !

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I could name a few reasons: Christmas is not just gift-giving day; it is also tied in with Christianity and Altruism. By renaming it, (or, more properly, celebrating a differant concept on the same day of the year) we create our own holiday. Just like the Christians did when they invented Christmas to displace the pagan winter solstace.

And, aren't I allowed to be just a little bit bitter toward Christianity?

I'm bitter towards Christianity too. That doesn't mean that I'm going to immediately renounce anything that is Christian in origin. If you're going to make that argument, then you'd better quit using the Gregorian calendar. And Christmas wasn't even Christian in origin, to begin with. It's only tied in with altruism if you personally tie it in with altruism...just like it's only Christian if you personally tie it in with Christianity. Gift-giving is not altruistic by nature, unless you don't value the person to whom you are giving gifts. If I walk to the apartment across the parking lot to give a gift to someone that I don't care about, it is altruism. If I give my mother a Christmas present, it is not altruistic, because she is important to me and seeing her happy, in turn, makes me feel happy. Call it what you want, but it's not like you're accepting Christian values by calling it "Christmas."

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I'm bitter towards Christianity too.  That doesn't mean that I'm going to immediately renounce anything that is Christian in origin.  If you're going to make that argument, then you'd better quit using the Gregorian calendar.

Good to hear. Makes sense not to immediately give up the calendar, but there's no harm or real bother in renaming Christmas, so why not do it?

And Christmas wasn't even Christian in origin, to begin with.
No, but the NAME is. Thus we rename the holiday to knock the Christianity out of it.

It's only tied in with altruism if you personally tie it in with altruism...just like it's only Christian if you personally tie it in with Christianity.

I don't think you're being very accurate. It is, as the name implies, quite tied in with Christianity, if not Altruism. (though many try to tie it to the latter) I agree it's not altruistic by nature which is why I advocate renaming it, not abolishing it.

Call it what you want, but it's not like you're accepting Christian values by calling it "Christmas."

No, but neither am I explicitly rejecting them as I would by changing the name. Now, if only I could come up with a doozy of a name: something that would stick, but would take the Christianity out.

I liked "Xmas" (pronounced exmas) for a while, but found out that it was in fact tied to early Christianity. :)

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There's also no harm in leaving it as it is. I hope you're ready to renounce the Gregorian calendar. Because, if you don't, but you renounce the name "Christmas," you're being inconsistent. Here's another shocker: I'M LISTENING TO CHRISTMAS MUSIC RIGHT NOW! Religious Christmas music too...it's good music and it brings me pleasure to hear it.

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There's also no harm in leaving it as it is.  I hope you're ready to renounce the Gregorian calendar.  Because, if you don't, but you renounce the name "Christmas," you're being inconsistent.  Here's another shocker: I'M LISTENING TO CHRISTMAS MUSIC RIGHT NOW!  Religious Christmas music too...it's good music and it brings me pleasure to hear it.

There's not MUCH harm in leaving it as is. But there IS harm. Christianity is harmful no matter how you slice it. I want Christianity out of my holiday and out of American culture.

Oh, I am soooo shocked and morally outraged that you're listening to Christmas music. Oh, wait... I'm not. You've got me all wrong, man. Settle down, I'm not your enemy.

And no, I'm not inconsistant. Fixing the calendar would be TOO HARD. Fixing the name of Christmas would be EASY, relatively speaking. I said this already. Please read my posts more carefully if you're going to respond to them.

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I did read it, and I still say you're being inconsistent. Yeah, it'd be hard, but do you not consider it wrong to be based off of the birth of Christ? It seems to me that, if something is wrong, it should be fixed no matter how difficult it might be. And what do you mean by "change the name." Do you mean the government should eliminate Christmas as a national holiday and call it the "winter holiday?" If that's what you mean, I agree. Because Christmas is, largely, considered a religious holiday, I do not think the government should differentiate between Christmas, Channukah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, etc, and just call them all by the same "winter holiday" label. If you mean that I, as a non-Christian, should start calling it something else, I disagree. It's just a name and I am not endorsing anything by using it.

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I did read it, and I still say you're being inconsistent.  It seems to me that, if something is wrong, it should be fixed no matter how difficult it might be.

I am not being inconsistant. I just don't take the same attitude as you do in sentence #2, above. I can disagree with something without it being worth the effort to change. Your attitude seems to be that if something is wrong, you're just going to ignore all the consequences and attack it. I urge you to reconsider that attitude.

And what do you mean by "change the name."

What I mean is that I would like it if people created a new holiday on December 25, which retains all of the nice, selfish, capitalistic things that Chrismas had, and all of the non-Christian elements (lights, tree, ornaments, candy canes, gift giving... heck, maybe even Santa) and to remove all of the Christianity. That includes changing the name, since the name has "Christ" in it. No, I don't have a replacement name as of yet.

As to whether you're endorsing Christianity right now by celebrating, and calling it, Christmas... no, I would say you are not. But you COULD do one better by doing like me. And it wouldn't cost you a dime.

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I'm trying not to take this thread seriously but here goes:

And no, I'm not inconsistant. Fixing the calendar would be TOO HARD. Fixing the name of Christmas would be EASY, relatively speaking.

Easy? Changing the name requires an extraordinary effort, including making new postcards, decorations, books, songs, and merchandise of all sorts, with absolutely NO reward. I am perfectly capable of practicing and enjoying Christmas as a celebration of capitalism, even though many aspects of my culture and my language are rooted in a mystic past. Is your mind so vulnerable that you need to purge the English language from any subtle roots pointing to religion?

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Easy? Changing the name requires an extraordinary effort, including making new postcards, decorations, books, songs, and merchandise of all sorts, with absolutely NO reward. I am perfectly capable of practicing and enjoying Christmas as a celebration of capitalism, even though many aspects of my culture and my language are rooted in a mystic past. Is your mind so vulnerable that you need to purge the English language from any subtle roots pointing to religion?

Well, i said relatively speaking. Relative to changing the calendar is what I meant!

It would be nice, is all I am saying. I mean, if people can have Kwanzaa, then why can't we have our own holiday?

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I'm trying not to take this thread seriously but here goes:

Easy? Changing the name requires an extraordinary effort, including making new postcards, decorations, books, songs, and merchandise of all sorts, with absolutely NO reward. I am perfectly capable of practicing and enjoying Christmas as a celebration of capitalism, even though many aspects of my culture and my language are rooted in a mystic past. Is your mind so vulnerable that you need to purge the English language from any subtle roots pointing to religion?

That's what I'm thinking. It would be impossible to purge American culture of all things related to Christianity.

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You can have your own holiday. And I can have mine and I call it Christmas, because that's how I grew up hearing it. As long as I'm not celebrating the birth of Christ, there's nothing wrong with it.

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You can have your own holiday.  And I can have mine and I call it Christmas, because that's how I grew up hearing it.  As long as I'm not celebrating the birth of Christ, there's nothing wrong with it.

Yes we can. And, since mine is free of references to Christianity... well... mine's better than yours.

Oh, and now that I think about it:

Oakes,

What would be so hard about it?

making new postcards, decorations, books, songs, and merchandise of all sorts, with absolutely NO reward.

They have to make new postcards, decorations, and merchandise EVERY year. It gets used up. As for books, name a book about Christmas worth keeping. As for songs, we can write new ones. The Christians did. So can we.

I'm talking long term here.

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I still think it's pointless.  And I think it is equally pointless for you to call yours better than mine.  Neither of us gives it any religious significance.

I guess it would be pointless if it were just you and me; or if Christianity suddenly ceased to exist. But it does, so I wouldn't mind resisting it.

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