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Charles T.

Christmas: Celebrate, Replace, Rename or Ignore?

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I never intended this topic to be one for serious debate. :thumbsup:

Too late.

I would definitely change my name if it were "Christian", but the others have become sufficiently "secularized" (along with almost all biblically-derived names) that virtually no one literally associates them with Christ or Christanity - an argument I don't think applies to Christmas, which is why I really would like to see the name changed eventually. If it were called Giftmas (or whatever), that would help the religious origins fade into the ash-heap of history.

Addionally, then we wouldn't have to hear all those lame religious-themed Christmas-songs every year. Wouldn't it be worth it for that alone? :ninja:

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I never intended this topic to be one for serious debate.    :ninja:

Too late.

I would definitely change my name if it were "Christian", but the others have become sufficiently "secularized" (along with almost all biblically-derived names) that virtually no one literally associates them with Christ or Christanity - an argument I don't think applies to Christmas, which is why I really would like to see the name changed eventually.  If it were called Giftmas (or whatever), that would help the religious origins fade into the ash-heap of history. 

Addionally, then we wouldn't have to hear all those lame religious-themed Christmas-songs every year.  Wouldn't it be worth it for that alone?  B)

Right. Also, selfish parents wouldn't have to explain to their puzzled children why an essentially materialistic celebration goes by the name of a scorner of material goods. :thumbsup:

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Do you object to Thursday because you don't worship Thor?

Hehe, good point. I'm not angry or anything. But this is a little differant because I actually want to celebrate a gift-giving holiday on Dec 25th. I'm more just looking for a differant name to distinguish the fact that I'm not a Christian of any kind.

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On a more fundamental level, how about having a Solstice Day celebration?

It could last several days, gifts could be exchanged, feasts could be gulped down, "yule logs" could be burned, decorative lights could be placed everywhere. It would have nothing to do with faith or religion, though various religions could celebrate their beliefs then, and it would mark the astronomical beginning of winter for the entire northern hemisphere.

That's more the kind of thing I was looking for, only more catchy. :thumbsup:

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No, but I would certainly change it if it were "Christ"; wouldn't you?

Or, more troublingly, what about "Christopher." :thumbsup: Seems like that might be going too far... Opinions?

(edit: Er, I see it's already been asked. I would agree with NIJamesHughes: Christian is out, but the others seem secularized enough)

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What makes a celebration "essentially materialistic" ?

I think he means, "as it is practiced by most people."

And the more I think about this, the more "Xmas" is appealing (even though that name is Christian in origin, it is more obscure)

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I am looking for a definition of "materialistic." :nuke:

Capitalism Forever, I use "materialistic" in this context to refer to a concern with and celebration of material goods, as opposed to religious/spiritual concerns. In regard to festive decorations, and the giving of gifts to those you love, this is a secular/spiritual concern, as manifested in the following poem, which I wrote several years ago before I had given thought to changing the name of "Christmas". Even here, by eliminating all religious references, "Christmas", in the last line, has a healthier sense to it.

Christmas, Go On!

Our bubbling jollity and our keen delight,

Our "Golly, everything!" deep in the night;

Fast, inquisitive, competent hands,

Flying ribbons in flight command!

Open the box, there; what've you got?

"All that I dreamed of, dreamed a lot!

Tickets and maps, yes! Trips over sea!

Ah! and for you, dear, a present from me."

So grand the shape and so firm each part,

I know what it is, it's my new heart!

A bold one, a gold one, with a verse inside----

'May your life be integrity and your mind your pride."

It is, it is, and yours is, too.

THAT"S why we're living, naught lesser will do!

Giving, and taking, glad to have won,

Like bankers, like merchants, hey! we have fun!

Now put on the coffee and turn on the light;

Let's study these maps and set out tonight!

Vales little thought of, rocks never touched,

Trails just beginning, wonders half-cluthed,

Ridges of promise waiting man's right----

Earth all new-fashioned for traders' delight;

New dams awaiting, new cities, new farms,

Sparkways of business spreading out charms;

Thousands of earth-stars---Edison's eyes!---

Set to all angles of wid'ning surprise;

Shipyards and airports humming deep strength;

Trainways and highways stretching out length;

Compelling up downtowns, where Top Competence climbs

With Wheeling's dealings and Profit's rhymes

(Cling! rings the money; ting!, rings again!

Drawn up with trading happy are men);

Sky-ledged apartments where piano notes pour

My-Life Concerto where two spirits soar.

Open the door there; what've we got? A new beginning of another plot.

For now Love touches; a kiss.....one........two!

Our true destination's a self-made brew.

A trip for tomorrow, a sip for today;

To have no sorrow we gladly pay.

Routing and planning, and shouting, "To be!"

Sweet is the music rounding the tree.

"Yes!" to life's pleasure, 'specially this_ dawn;

Worldly happiness, Christmas, go on!

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My faves so far:

Giftmas (honesty is a plus)

Mas (Spanish for "more" - appropriate)

OK, I'll give it a try:

Purchasemas

Wrapmas

SaveTheGiftReceiptmas

NewGlovesmas

HighElectricBillmas (also known as OutdoYourNeighborsmas)

SummerSausagemas

Tryptophanmas

and finally, Returnmas.

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Addionally, then we wouldn't have to hear all those lame religious-themed Christmas-songs every year.  Wouldn't it be worth it for that alone?  :santa:

I love those songs. The best, I think, is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Beautiful.

Although, you guys can't cheat like I can. My real name is Bob, so whenever I hear the word God, I always insert Bob. So lovely, all those people singing about me...

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OK, I'll give it a try:

Purchasemas

Wrapmas

SaveTheGiftReceiptmas

NewGlovesmas

HighElectricBillmas (also known as OutdoYourNeighborsmas)

SummerSausagemas

Tryptophanmas

and finally, Returnmas.

That's the spirit. :santa:

How about:

WalMartmas

Major Retailers Day

Credit Card Day

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Major Retailers Day

WalMartmas

Yeah. Internally, compaines probably already call it "Make Your Numbers for the Year Day".

The name could even change based on the name of the current retail sponsor, which would rotate each year.

By the way, I was wrong, "Returnmas" would occur on the first shopping day after "the holiday".

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Giftmas (honesty is a plus)

Mas (Spanish for "more" - appropriate)

Purchasemas

Wrapmas

SaveTheGiftReceiptmas

NewGlovesmas

HighElectricBillmas (also known as OutdoYourNeighborsmas)

SummerSausagemas

Tryptophanmas

and finally, Returnmas.

Now you guys are getting in the spirit! :santa::D:santa:

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Capitalism Forever, I use "materialistic" in this context to refer to a concern with and celebration of material goods, as opposed to religious/spiritual concerns.

But that's not how Christmas should be, and I think you know it! You certainly knew it when you wrote the poem and used words like: "jollity," "delight," "dreamed," "dear," "pride," "Love," "happiness" ... Certainly these words do not reflect concern with material goods at the exclusion of spiritual concerns, don't you agree?

Sure, a pious contempt for everything material is not the right way to celebrate Christmas--but neither would be a soulless bout of materialism. Another word you used in your poem--"integrity"--should remind you why!

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Purchasemas

Wrapmas

[...]

Folks, you shouldn't be making a mockery out of this beautiful holiday. If you really can't stand the name, call it what the Japanese do: Kurisumasu. Although that is still their way of pronouncing "krissmus," it is transmuted enough to fully obscure all traces of the reference to you know whom.

Kurisumasu omedeto!

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But that's not how Christmas should be, and I think you know it! You certainly knew it when you wrote the poem and used words like: "jollity," "delight," "dreamed," "dear," "pride," "Love," "happiness" ... Certainly these words do not reflect concern with material goods at the exclusion of spiritual concerns, don't you agree?

Sure, a pious contempt for everything material is not the right way to celebrate Christmas--but neither would be a soulless bout of materialism. Another word you used in your poem--"integrity"--should remind you why!

Read the sentence following the one you just quoted.

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I would like to add a small rant to this thread. It goes something like this:

I hate Christmas, you know why, because of other people. It is bad enough that the whole shin-dig is a government endorsed slap in the face to anybody who is not a Christian. The bad part is the looks you get from people when you say you don't care about Christmas, the looks, the whispers, the hushed conversations when you tell your co-workers you don't want to pitch in for a gift to your boss. The looks of contempt when you tell them you don't want to be part of their secret Santa nonsense. The cries of scrooge or "bah humbug" from people that could care less to talk to you 355 days of they year, but it is Christmas time so they get chatty all of the sudden. I hate the altruism shoved down my thought when the charity collector walks by and gives his speech. I hate the Songs, oh man do i hate the songs. I hate the news every year about somebody stealing baby Jesus from this or that. I hate the news stories that X person is offended because there is a Y in front of government build Q.

The rant goes on but i will stop, for now...

<PS: Punk, i like your sig, and i do know where it comes from :D >

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OK, so now we have "materialistic," "religious/spiritual," and "secular/spiritual." Is the first supposed to be good, the second bad, and the last good?

The material values of a real-world valuer and the spirit (his mind, character, and emotional responses) in which he enjoys them are good (assuming he attained those values honestly). A religious, mystical spirit is not good for anything.

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