I'm ashamed that my generation is so stupid.

[Nicko0301]

The following is a quote from a Marxist (or, as he prefers to be called, a "Maoist Third-Worldist") idiot with whom I am aqcuainted through Myspace:

"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the 'Universe',

a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts

and feelings, as something separate from the rest - a kind of optical

delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for

us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few

persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this

prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures

and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this

completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part

of the liberation and a foundation for inner security"

You know, when I read Rand for the first time, I couldn't bring myself to believe that the characters which she depicted in her novels could be anything more than an example of hyperbole. There just can't be anyone in reality, I thought to myself, who is like Elseworth Toohey or his ilk. However, it seems as if everyday I encounter these imbeciles; they lurk in the message boards of various websites, waiting for the apt time to confidently announce that there is no reality and that everything is an illusion.

It is so madenning! How do people allow themselves to descend to such insanity?

[Amaroq]

My roommate is one of those. Not the kind you quoted, but no less confusing to me.

To him, the real universe is nothing but configurations of quarks. Existence exists, but somehow it's not an axiom. There is no consciousness, volition is an illusion (he's a physical determinist), the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the one. He believes in unconditional nonviolence, to the point where he tries to convince me that I should be willing to let an attacker kill me before I fight back and kill him. He believes that being willing to kill any number of people who are trying to kill you makes -you- the evil one.

The really creepy part is that he was once a fledgeling Objectivist. He actually gave me Anthem and Atlas Shrugged. I can't possibly fathom what would turn a person to such... such... horribly wrong ideas.

[bluecherry]

My roommate is one of those. Not the kind you quoted, but no less confusing to me.

To him, the real universe is nothing but configurations of quarks. Existence exists, but somehow it's not an axiom. There is no consciousness, volition is an illusion (he's a physical determinist), the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the one. He believes in unconditional nonviolence, to the point where he tries to convince me that I should be willing to let an attacker kill me before I fight back and kill him. He believes that being willing to kill any number of people who are trying to kill you makes -you- the evil one.

The really creepy part is that he was once a fledgeling Objectivist. He actually gave me Anthem and Atlas Shrugged. I can't possibly fathom what would turn a person to such... such... horribly wrong ideas.

*raises hand* My guess to the answer of how he went from one end the the other was he never really got to understanding Objectivism much of at all, thought he did, concluded this thing which he believed was Objectivism was totally fucked up, and so swung 180 degrees the other direction. Hoisted on his own strawman. *shakes head* You could try asking him sometime though why he decided against Objectivism and for him to tell you what he believes Objectivism holds and implies (because what he thinks Objectivism is could hold crucial clues to the answer even if the answer he tells you doesn't explain much on its own.) Personally though, if I were in your position, I'd have applied to change rooms by now. I'd have ducked out there ASAP, I wouldn't well tolerate living with somebody like that constantly in close quarters for long

[Jake_Ellison]

What generation are you talking about. My generation, let's say 25 to 30 years olds, in my experience, are smarter than any other generation before them. I would imagine with the increasing amount and quality of information at their disposal, younger generations are even smarter.

Incidentally, scientific studies of the issue confirm my observations. So, unless you wish to keep this thread a bitching fest about how stupid Marxists are, in which case I'll leave you to it, I challenge you to come up with arguments that support your condemnation of an entire generation.

[Nicko0301]

What generation are you talking about. My generation, let's say 25 to 30 years olds, in my experience, are smarter than any other generation before them. I would imagine with the increasing amount and quality of information at their disposal, younger generations are even smarter.

Incidentally, scientific studies of the issue confirm my observations. So, unless you wish to keep this thread a bitching fest about how stupid Marxists are, in which case I'll leave you to it, I challenge you to come up with arguments that support your condemnation of an entire generation.

The one who made that inane statement is about twenty years old.

And when I used the term "stupid," I was not referring to a lack of intelligence per se, but to an overall lack of common sense and reasonability. You can excavate all of the studies you want on intelligence, but they are ultimately meaningless. I know plenty of seemingly intelligent people who are immersed in this sort of mystical nonsense. (Although, I can't help but question the intelligence of someone who believes that drivel.)

Also, please try not to be so sensitive. I wasn't referring to you specifically.

[Jake_Ellison]

I didn't think you were talking about me, nor was I offended. I was just saying...

You have to admit, there are a few layers of irony (used in the wider sense) in someone on an Objectivist, individualist forum calling an entire age group stupid, and then adding that by stupid he doesn't mean unintelligent, and thus forgive my insolence, right?

[Rearden_Steel]

It is so madenning! How do people allow themselves to descend to such insanity?

I guess its they think its easier than thinking and dealing with reality. I can't take such people seriously. My response would be "yeah, good luck with that".

Edited November 23, 2009 by Rearden_Steel

[TheEgoist]

Saying one generation of people is stupid is as good as saying one ethnic group is stupid.

[Nicko0301]

I agree that it was wrong for me to make such a generalization, so I'll recant my original statement (namely, that my entire generation is "stupid"). However, it isn't as if I said what I said because one person held these (mystical) opinions. Nearly everyday I hear someone in my age group say something similar to the aforesaid comment; or--equally as bad--I see them evince incredible ignorance, apathy, and cynicism. So it can at times be difficult not to generalize.

[Weston]

You might say that the popular thought of the day entertains foolish ideas, but to say a generation is stupid doesn't really mean anything.

[Jam Man]

Well, it just doesn't make any sense to feel ashamed of what a bunch of other people the same age as you are doing, saying, or thinking. Your premise is "I belong to this generation, and they misrepresent me." But you belong to yourself, and that's it. Adopt a more individualistic platform on which to build. Don't let the twisted mazes of others' minds concern you. Associate freely with whomever you choose, and you'll find that, while your number of aquaintences (and even true friends) may shrink, their quality will most definitely increase.

It is frustrating when you quite plainly make your case -- whatever it might be -- and your opponent, rather than refute or disprove your logic, offers all the contradictory mung of his emotions and feelings, not as an argument against your facts, but as proof of his position in spite of your facts, etc., etc.... You want to grab his shoulders and give him a vigorous rattle, if not scream at the top of your lungs for witnessing the horror of the living dead. But your opponent chooses his own way, and, whether it's a conscious choice or not, he will pay his own price. It's not your duty to save, convince, or transform him... or to even give ear to his madness.

[Dr Chiill]

Dude, don't apologize. Our generation is very, very stupid. I'm 18 by the way. Hardly anyone values intelligence, respect, or responsibility. We suck. We really do. Comparing a generation to an ethnic group doesn't make sense either. They are totally different. One is based on genetics, the other on culture.

[FeatherFall]

Comparing a generation to an ethnic group doesn't make sense either. They are totally different. One is based on genetics, the other on culture.

Actually, both are cultural. But that doesn't mean one is forbidden from valuing one ethnicity or generation over another. Just be sure not to make character judgments of individuals based on ethnicity or generation.

Edited November 24, 2009 by FeatherFall

[Amaroq]

Mine doesn't just ignore what I have to say. He isn't a mystic as far as I know. He debates me and attacks my belief in Oism regularly, using all sorts of hard-to-argue-against rationalizations. This guy is at least as smart as I am, I think. But his beliefs are so stupid.

[Thales]

I think the word the OP is looking for is ignorant. SAT scores have dropped quite a bit since the 1950s. I believe there was bump up a few years ago, but this was because they increased examination time. Today a large percentage of scientists and engineers at universities are foreign born, which is probably due to the anti-conceptual approach of the public school system.

The public school system largely follows John Dewey, who thought education should be a means to socialize people, not to teach them. He looked for ways to cripple the best and brightest. There was an article he wrote, well over 100 years ago, which makes this point.

I posted on Dewey here:

http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.p...st&p=155499

Here is his 1897 article on education, since the link in my link above is broken:

http://dewey.pragmatism.org/creed.htm

[whYNOT]

This is the educationist who was in vogue when I was a kid?!! What a nasty demagogue.

As an exercise I counted about 80 "I believes" in this essay, and there're many uses of "social."

If he wasn't already dead, I'd recommend the firing squad as justice for his influence on all those young minds.

[Weston]

Mine doesn't just ignore what I have to say. He isn't a mystic as far as I know. He debates me and attacks my belief in Oism regularly, using all sorts of hard-to-argue-against rationalizations. This guy is at least as smart as I am, I think. But his beliefs are so stupid.

That's actually my favorite kind of person to talk to. Your beliefs don't mean anything unless you can defend them against intelligent, hard-balled rationalization.

[Maximus]

What generation are you talking about. My generation, let's say 25 to 30 years olds, in my experience, are smarter than any other generation before them. I would imagine with the increasing amount and quality of information at their disposal, younger generations are even smarter.

Incidentally, scientific studies of the issue confirm my observations. So, unless you wish to keep this thread a bitching fest about how stupid Marxists are, in which case I'll leave you to it, I challenge you to come up with arguments that support your condemnation of an entire generation.

I'm 49 and don't think you young turks are smarter, you just think you are.

[th3ranger]

I didn't think you were talking about me, nor was I offended. I was just saying...

You have to admit, there are a few layers of irony (used in the wider sense) in someone on an Objectivist, individualist forum calling an entire age group stupid, and then adding that by stupid he doesn't mean unintelligent, and thus forgive my insolence, right?

I imagine that this claim is more an expression of great frustration and pain of seeing friend after relative after co-worker more or less abandon reason. Though I have no idea if the original poster has observed this, I see this way too often. I think as Dagney Taggart did in Atlas shrugged, that maybe I shouldn't expect rationality anymore. With this whole global political situation really makes it difficult to be optimistic. It is only made worse when people of your own age who should have no trouble accessing a world of information via the internet just choose to not seek facts or reason.

[Nicko0301]

I imagine that this claim is more an expression of great frustration and pain of seeing friend after relative after co-worker more or less abandon reason. Though I have no idea if the original poster has observed this, I see this way too often. I think as Dagney Taggart did in Atlas shrugged, that maybe I shouldn't expect rationality anymore. With this whole global political situation really makes it difficult to be optimistic. It is only made worse when people of your own age who should have no trouble accessing a world of information via the internet just choose to not seek facts or reason.

Precisely: the post was made in a moment of exasperation. I mean, it is bad enough that most of my generation (let's be honest, we can generalize a bit) is lacking in values, that they prefer to do drugs than even attempt to think; but when I hear the ones who do think--however poorly--utter such nonsense, I can't always restrain my frustration.