Moving to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

It is with a lot of sadness that I have to announce that I will be leaving the Dallas area. I have been unemployed for almost three months and even with applying to 10-20 jobs per week, I am unable to find a decent paying job. Consequently, I have decided to move back in with my parents and make a fresh start in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area. I have greatly enjoyed our meetings, and will miss my friends and associates in the Dallas area, but the economy had left me little choice. I will be leaving by December 14th, so that I can reunite with family by Christmas. I'm not sure why I haven't been hired by major retailers I have applied to, but the facts are what they are. I have to take drastic action, and moving in with my parents will cut my expenses in half, making it possible for me to accept a lesser paying job and still be able to pay my bills. I will miss the Dallas area, and all of my friends and associates, but I am left with few options in this economic downturn. My email address will change once I am in Pittsburgh, but will remain my earthlink address until then.

Take care and think twice about leaving a job if you have no other prospects lined up.

If you are in the Pittsburgh area ansd would like to contact me, you can do so through this board, since I plan on remaining active on oo.net.

Thomas M. Miovas, Jr.

[KevinD]

I have been unemployed for almost three months and even with applying to 10-20 jobs per week, I am unable to find a decent paying job.

Be careful what you look for — you just might find it.

Or, not.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Kevin Delaney

[intellectualammo]

Take care and think twice about leaving a job if you have no other prospects lined up.

Good advice I go by, regardless of the politico-economic crisis.

If you are in the Pittsburgh area ansd would like to contact me, you can do so through this board, since I plan on remaining active on oo.net.

I'm located in the Pittsburgh area. I used to live in the South Side Slopes for about 2 years, but am living in the North Hills area, a profoundly better area. Did you grow up in the Pittsburgh area? I've spent my whole life here, and I will the rest of it as well. I think that CMU has an O'ist Club going again, I think they have had? or will have a recent big name O'ist come to their campus (can't think of who, I just found out about it a short while ago via email).

I sincerely hope that you find employment in this area. I work for the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center well over a half a decade now, UPMC has brought an economic renaissance to this area and you will notice that that is symbolically represented by them haveing "UPMC" placed atop the Steel building downtown, the steel industry bringing us the last economic renaissance to the area. (I did a talkcast with Mosely once all about it, it went extrememly well for my very first public talk, but I took it over and turn it into a speech cast, just like Galt did. I remember it, because that was the weekend that the last HP book came out, and I was too busy reading the HP book, and had to rush write my speech from notes from before, read it once to myself, then went on.) Anyways, as I was saying, there is a lot of development going on at my particular campus, and in my area where i live, lots and lots of jobs, and not just medical ones, retail as well, so you should have better success.

Welcome back to the Steel City!

Edited November 29, 2009 by intellectualammo

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

I'm located in the Pittsburgh area. I used to live in the South Side Slopes for about 2 years, but am living in the North Hills area, a profoundly better area. Did you grow up in the Pittsburgh area? I've spent my whole life here, and I will the rest of it as well. I think that CMU has an O'ist Club going again, I think they have had? or will have a recent big name O'ist come to their campus (can't think of who, I just found out about it a short while ago via email).

My parents were born and raised in Pittsburgh, but my Dad joined the US Navy, so I grew up all over the east coast. They decided to retire there, and own a house in Glenshaw. Don't know my way around the Pittsburgh area, so I'll have to do some checking around once I get there. I'm glad to hear there is some Objectivist activity going on there. I'm already regretting it, but I threw out a lot of Objectivist memorabilia connected to Texas, since I want to travel light....should have kept one box for old time sake. At least until I go back to college, I will be looking for something in retail, been doing that for 20 years now. Doesn't pay a lot, but it was paying the bills (until the gallery closed), though they mostly seem to want younger people starting off. I don't know if the job prospect will be better there or not, but the advantage is that I won't have to make as much money to pay the bills. Once I get there and know my way around, I'll want to meet other Objectivists, so it is good knowing some people from this board are in the area. I hate starting all over again, but without a job I don't have many other options. Not really what I wanted to be doing at 50ish, but that's the way it goes, I guess.

By the way, what is CMU, I don't know the universities in the area.

[intellectualammo]

By the way, what is CMU, I don't know the universities in the area.

Carnegie Mellon University. Pittsburgh area has many colleges and universities to choose from. I choose, none. I dropped out of Point Park University a decade ago, it was a private college at the time. This is the group and I think it's Epstein that they are having come, or just came, I'll have to check my email to find out:

http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~cmoc/

I've worked in retail before in my live, years at Target. I did enjoy my employment there, but due to a situation that occured during my marriage at the time, I needed to seek an employer that provided health benefits right away, since my ex-wife quit suddenly being a CNA at a nursing home, and she carried the insurance as well as carrying my daughter to be.

[Zip]

Best of luck Thomas!

[Thales]

I keep hearing that Texas is the best place for jobs and California is a basket case. Good luck to you, Thomas!

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

Thank you for the well thoughts; I'll do what I can to make a fresh start. I'm depressed about having to leave my home, but I'm out of options. Texas does have a lot of jobs, I've been applying to 10-20 per week, but they aren't hiring me, and I'm not sure why. Anyhow, I have to cut my expenses and moving in with my parents will do that. My congratulations to those of you who made a financial success of your life; I hope things continue to go well with you. I haven't had a high paying job since I graduated 22 years ago, which is why I am in this fix. Fortunately, I can fall back on my parent's invitation, rather than winding up on the streets or being so far in debt I can never get out. I'm trying not to feel like too much of a failure, but it is difficult. I've done what I could to get a job, but it just didn't happen over the past two months or so, and I don't have any other options open to me.

[logan]

You sound like you are not in a really good place right now emotionally.

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

You sound like you are not in a really good place right now emotionally.

No, I'm not in a good place emotionally. I'm having to say goodbye to my friends and an area that I love. I feel like a failure because I have to fall back onto my parent's generosity, but I do get along well with them. I think it will work out in the long-run, but I am not pleased with the fact that I can't get a job in the Dallas area. My credentials don't mean much, apparently, to those looking for salesmen or skilled labor. I just have to keep at it and start anew. Thanks for your well wishes, everyone who replied. I'll just have to keep it all together and make a fresh start, but it doesn't mean I won't miss my home of 25 years and my local friends. My parents are enthusiastic about me coming up there by Christmas, and I will be happy to be with them. It's just a personal upheaval that I didn't need right now.

[gags]

Good luck with the move Thomas. I'm pulling for you.

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

Good luck with the move Thomas. I'm pulling for you.

Thanks!

[Trebor]

"Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean, I mean plumb, mad-dog mean, 'cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is." -- Josey Wells (Clint Eastwood)

And: from the movie, "The Edge" with Anthony Hopkins (Charles Morse) and Alex Baldwin (Robert Green) and Harold Perrineau (Stephen) -- three men lost in the wilderness, fighting to survive:

Charles Morse: You know, I once read an interesting book which said that, uh, most people lost in the wilds, they, they die of shame.

Stephen: What?

Charles Morse: Yeah, see, they die of shame. "What did I do wrong? How could I have gotten myself into this?" And so they sit there and they... die. Because they didn't do the one thing that would save their lives.

Robert Green: And what is that, Charles?

Charles Morse: Thinking.

With respect to that, thinking, you'll do fine.

Now go and kill the bear!

Edited November 30, 2009 by Trebor

[gags]

There's a lot to be said for what Trebor wrote. You can't let self-doubt or hesitation show through when you interview. Your focus should be on demonstrating that you are someone who will be a valuable addition to the employer's organization. Do it man!

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

Yes, I understand. I haven't lost my head, though the self-doubt is trickling in (need to be careful of that). I'm just very sad for the change and very disappointed those in Dallas didn't see my resume as a skill set. I think I'll be all right in the long run, like I said, but it is definitely a set-back for my self-esteem. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but I've prided myself on taking care of myself all these years, even when I was barely making it. But I can't live in the big city (Dallas or Pittsburgh) without a good job. Their verdict on my abilities isn't good, but I know better. A little training and I could do the job, they just have to let me in

[Trebor]

I didn't mean to come across as patronizing. I do not think that you've lost your head. I think, from what I've read, that you have a good head on your shoulders.

You're in a tough spot, and I'm sorry to hear it. I think it's inevitable that it's going to bring some significant sadness and sense of loss, for real loss. There's no shame in that. You have to permit yourself to feel the loss without self-reproach.

This is a deep recession, and it isn't over yet. You're not in control of everything, only of what you can do, and it seems that you're doing what you can, what you think you must. What else can one do?

I'm glad that you have a warm hearth to go to, family there to help.

It's been a long time since I read it, but Branden, in one of his psychology books, posed the following scenario and question (more or less):

Imagine that you're walking down (paraphrasing with a lot of liberties) a small, quite, country road lined with fields. In the far distance, you see that there's a large tree to the side of the road, and as you get closer, you realize that there's a young child sitting underneath it. When you finally see the child clearly, you see that it's you as you were as a young child. The question is, "What would you say to that child?" (And how would you treat him?)

Be good to that child, and do what you have to do to get what you most want out of life.

With best wishes.

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

I didn't mean to come across as patronizing. I do not think that you've lost your head. I think, from what I've read, that you have a good head on your shoulders.

I didn't think you were being patronizing and I think I've gotten good advise from making this announcement. No hard feelings at all.

As to what I'd say to myself if I met myself younger, I don't know. I appreciate the knowledge I have and I have often thought that maybe I made a wrong choice in getting a degree in physics and philosophy, since I can't get a job with those. However, I had to follow my interests, and I have been interested in those for a long time before going to college. I don't know that I would have changed anything. Maybe I would have accepted other jobs, maybe I'd be better off, but I don't really know that; and so long as one makes decisions in full context there is no sense in second guessing oneself. Perhaps I would tell myself that it is not going to be as easy as you think it is going to be. Intelligence alone won't pay the bills.

As to the recession, as others have pointed out, at least I don't have a family to take care of and at least I'm not losing a mortgage on a house, which would be worse for me. I just need to stop moping and get on with it. I've already thrown away a lot of excess baggage (including some things I wish I would have kept, already), but now comes the packing part and getting boxes and all that stuff.

You are right though that one ought to feel the sadness -- and also I guess the sense of rejection. A couple of places actually accepted my employment, but I don't want to do outside sales and I couldn't do one job I accepted (cold calling 20-30 people an hour was driving me bonkers).

Anyhow, thanks, no offense taken. It's rough times but at least I have a fall-back position to take.

[softwareNerd]

I wish you well, Thomas.

One idea that may seem counter-intuitive: try positioning yourself to jobs that are one or two levels higher and better paying than the ones you're currently applying for. Even if you think this won't work, it cannot hurt to try a couple. Think about that job and about what the employer would be looking for. Figure out some very concrete factors that make you suitable for that job: one one two examples from your past experience that you can talk about to show that you have one or two of the key factors. Then, give those a shot. It can't hurt. When people are out of work, they sometimes continue to position themselves too high, hoping that they can get a job at their previous level, and nervous that if they accept something less they will never get back to where they were. However, beware of doing the opposite: in desperation, one might position oneself too low, and have an employer think that you're "over qualified".

Secondly, have you read a few books about job-hunting? If not, do so. Since you're probably an intellectual person, seek out ideas from a couple of books. Much of what they say may be obvious, some of it may be wrong; but, your mind might be able to spot a couple of good ideas and approaches that you can put to good use. Public libraries often have a decent selection on job-seeking. "Ask the Headhunter" is one book I remember being pretty good, but any of the widely-popular ones should offer a few good tips.

Thirdly, have someone review your resume. It should be someone you trust to give you candid feedback. You need a few different resumes: because the resume is not about you, but about your suitability for the job. So, resumes for different types of jobs have to be different.

Finally, the interview is more than 50% about personality and probably less than 50% about rehashing and confirming what you have written on your resume. So, it would be great if you could have someone close act as your mirror, to help you understand what aspects of your personality you need to highlight or to hide to come across as the person who the employer is looking for. Since you're going to live with your parents, perhaps they might be willing to give you some feedback, if you put it to them right and demonstrate a willingness to listen to them tell you about any negatives that need correction. I've seen people hired with thin resumes, but just based on the enthusiasm they exuded at an interview.

Once more, all the best.

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

I wish you well, Thomas.

One idea that may seem counter-intuitive: try positioning yourself to jobs that are one or two levels higher and better paying than the ones you're currently applying for. Even if you think this won't work, it cannot hurt to try a couple.

Thank you for the advise, SN. I've been applying from anything that requires skilled labor to management -- especially if they are willing to train. Not sure why I have been rejected, as I haven't received any rejection notices. Without feedback, it is difficult for me to know if they think I am under qualified or over qualified; they are just not calling me in for an interview. I have been shooting high in a couple of cases, just to see what happens. So I'm not focused on one particular type of job, and my resume is just factual about what I have done in the past. What most employers consider to be management is managing others, which I haven't really done, so I have been aiming higher in those cases. In my estimation, they are looking for specific skills, and if it is not explicitly on one's resume, then they won't hire you. Personally, I think that is short sighted -- maybe even an aspect of the prevailing pragmatism in business these days. It's a buyer's market for employers, since so many people are looking for work, they can afford to be very specific about what they are looking for and can probably get it.

Anyhow, if I had more savings I would stick it out in Dallas, but I don't so I can't. When employers are rejecting you and you know you can do the job, it is difficult to keep a positive outlook, but I think I do project confidence at job interviews. There just haven't been that many and my options have run out.

Thanks once again for the advise.

[softwareNerd]

Good, you seem to be trying to target as broad a range of jobs as possible.

You're almost certainly right when you say...

In my estimation, they are looking for specific skills, and if it is not explicitly on one's resume, then they won't hire you. Personally, I think that is short sighted -- maybe even an aspect of the prevailing pragmatism in business these days.

That is something that will just not go away. The key is to figure out what "strings" and "patterns" need to be on one's resume. I mean words, of course; but, sometimes the people who screen the first round of resumes are little better than programs screening for some "strings". So, an important part of making a resume is to figure out what strings must be present. Once you know that. you can decide what strings you can put there and can stand behind during an interview.

[Steve D'Ippolito]

I remember seeing ads looking for people with ten years of Java experience. At the time the language had only existed for three or four years. Yet that company was pretty stubborn about it.

I know of another situation where someone was looking for a person who had both programmed and administered a Cray computer. I knew plenty of people who had done one or the other, but not both. I told them so. They were looking at a fairly large pool of potential candidates (people who had worked on the previous contract that used that machine), they had heard I was looking for something different, they knew I was one of the better software people on that old contract.... and I told them flat out what they were looking for didn't exist, at least not on that contract. They had to pick either a programmer or an administrator. I was willing to *learn* the admin side but for whatever reason they just had to have that magic prior experience. Somehow I doubt I was talking to the person who actually had the job; I believe I was talking to some hiring dude who had no ability to decide what he could live with if he couldn't find exactly what was on the sheet of paper in front of him.

I think in both cases this is a sign of one person writing the "req" (requisition for a worker) and another person, who sees only the words on the paper and not the whole context, being given the task of finding that worker.

[Thales]

Thank you for the advise, SN. I've been applying from anything that requires skilled labor to management -- especially if they are willing to train. Not sure why I have been rejected, as I haven't received any rejection notices. Without feedback, it is difficult for me to know if they think I am under qualified or over qualified; they are just not calling me in for an interview. I have been shooting high in a couple of cases, just to see what happens. So I'm not focused on one particular type of job, and my resume is just factual about what I have done in the past. What most employers consider to be management is managing others, which I haven't really done, so I have been aiming higher in those cases. In my estimation, they are looking for specific skills, and if it is not explicitly on one's resume, then they won't hire you. Personally, I think that is short sighted -- maybe even an aspect of the prevailing pragmatism in business these days. It's a buyer's market for employers, since so many people are looking for work, they can afford to be very specific about what they are looking for and can probably get it.

Anyhow, if I had more savings I would stick it out in Dallas, but I don't so I can't. When employers are rejecting you and you know you can do the job, it is difficult to keep a positive outlook, but I think I do project confidence at job interviews. There just haven't been that many and my options have run out.

Thanks once again for the advise.

Three months is not that long, especially in the current economy. Things are just flat out bad today.

One idea, see if you can find and list industries or companies that are thriving, there are bound to be a few, and apply there. I know a guy who owns a garage and does auto repair. He says business is booming, and he believes this is because people are not buying new cars because money is tight. Instead, they are repairing the ones they have.

And maybe SNerd has a good point, you may have to find the "magic string" that gets you to the next level. If you aren't getting interviews, that could be what is going on!

I also think knowing someone in a company can help a great deal. If you know someone in a company, and that guy is well known within the company his good word for you can help immensely!

Also, put together a well thought out strategic plan and follow it.

An addendum: Go for the gold. Go for a job you'd love. Find specific job openings on Monster, etc., that you would love and see what they are looking for and tailor your resume to those jobs.

I remember seeing ads looking for people with ten years of Java experience. At the time the language had only existed for three or four years. Yet that company was pretty stubborn about it.

Which had the unfortunate side effect that everyone they pulled in to be interviewed was a liar.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Thales

[Thomas M. Miovas Jr.]

Three months is not that long, especially in the current economy. Things are just flat out bad today.

Three months is long enough if your savings runs out...which is what happened to me.

Thank you for your advise. Problem is, I don't know which businesses are booming until I read their blurp in a want ad. I don't apply to jobs that I know I can't do at this time -- i.e. I don't apply to IT jobs or programming jobs, because I can't do that. I aim as high as I can given what I know I can do with some training. I've never tried to tailor my resume, I just use one for everything I apply to. I've heard some real horror stories about this. My mom was a secretary for many years, and she had listed everything she had done in that capacity, but she never used the word "secretary" so they were going to pass her by until she re-did her resume. She thought it was silly because she had to have been a secretary in order to do those tasks, but you can't leave that up to the reader, you have to spell it out for them. So I do mention everything I have done in those terms on my resume, but maybe some more tailoring would come in handy.

[whYNOT]

Glad you're staying on O.Online, Thomas as I appreciate your insights and knowledge.

The best of luck to you.

[Thales]

Three months is long enough if your savings runs out...which is what happened to me.

Thank you for your advise. Problem is, I don't know which businesses are booming until I read their blurp in a want ad. I don't apply to jobs that I know I can't do at this time -- i.e. I don't apply to IT jobs or programming jobs, because I can't do that. I aim as high as I can given what I know I can do with some training.

Absolutely! That's what I mean. For example, I've applied for a programming job at Pixar, even though my qualifications weren't a perfect match, because I thought it'd be a great company to work for, and because I do have a lot of programming skills that would fit into a company like that.

I've never tried to tailor my resume, I just use one for everything I apply to. I've heard some real horror stories about this.

The point is to highlight the skills you have that match what a particular company is looking for. I don't see how that can be a problem.

My mom was a secretary for many years, and she had listed everything she had done in that capacity, but she never used the word "secretary" so they were going to pass her by until she re-did her resume. She thought it was silly because she had to have been a secretary in order to do those tasks, but you can't leave that up to the reader, you have to spell it out for them. So I do mention everything I have done in those terms on my resume, but maybe some more tailoring would come in handy.

Don't mention everything in your resume. Mention the things that are of most importance for a particular job/industry. Essentialize for the job at hand.