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Advice For Buying A Dog

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HaloNoble6

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I live in upstate New York, in an 800 square-foot apartment, and I'm looking to buy a dog. I don't know much about pure breads, my only experience with dogs has been with mutts, so I'd like to hear some advice from any dog lovers here. I'm looking for an obedient, short-to-medium length coat, medium-sized dog that can survive the weather in upstate NY and is comfortable in the space of my apartment.

Felipe

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I live in upstate New York, in an 800 square-foot apartment, and I'm looking to buy a dog.  I don't know much about pure breads, my only experience with dogs has been with mutts, so I'd like to hear some advice from any dog lovers here.  I'm looking for an obedient, short-to-medium length coat, medium-sized dog that can survive the weather in upstate NY and is comfortable in the space of my apartment.

Felipe

Felipe,

Finally we have a post on a really interesting and important topic! :

I live in Niagara Falls, Canada and have two Golden Retrievers, Nigel and Monty. I am out in all weathers walking and hiking with both of them. I have obedience and agility trained both of them and field trained, Monty. We are just about to get back into serious training for competitions.

What are you getting the dog for? Family pet, competition, breeding, etc.? That would have a lot to do with choosing the right breed.

What makes you want a pure bred?

If you do decide on a pure bred I have lots of advice on how to choose a breeder and a blood line. Nigel is a beatiful looking dog with a great personality and was bought from a very reputable breeder but I realise now (after two very expensive hip operations) that he was over-bred. I did a LOT more genetic research when I bought Monty, and so far he is the healthiest and hardest working dog I have ever seen (except for working Border Collies).

Nigel and Monty were my first dogs and I bought pure breds, but only because I was a newbie. I think if I get a dog after these two (we have four cats as well) I will seriously consider an adult dog from the local pound.

The obedience thing depends more on you than on the dog, though some breeds do seem to be preferred for serious (competition) obedience people.....Goldens, Australian Shepherds, Shelties, some of the Spaniels, some of the Terriers, German Shepherds, Dobes.

In short give me some more information and I will be glad to help. So far, based on size limitations I think you might want to rule out Afghan Hounds (they are also, in general, dumber than dirt), Irish Wolfhounds and St. Bernards. B)

Brent

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I have lab mutt but I have 2700 sq feet of house and a big flat yard. I would rule out any medium or large dog becuase of the size of your place and NYC. Mutts are great. Dogs that are rescued seem to be more loyal but make sure its not been abused.

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Brent:

Thank you for your thorough response. I was getting tired of trivial philosophical discussion and decided to be the first to start a thread on a really important topic.

I wish I had the time for competition, but I'm really looking for a family pet.

I guess I am a newbie--I had thought that obedience and intelligence were more a function of breed than of training. With a mutt, though, you can't really tell what the adult will look like, and I kind of have an affinity for stout, muscular dogs, something like Red-Nosed Pitbulls and Mastiffs, though I also like Labs, German Sheppards and Goldens.

Felipe

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Brent:

I guess I am a newbie--I had thought that obedience and intelligence were more a function of breed than of training.  With a mutt, though, you can't really tell what the adult will look like, and I kind of have an affinity for stout, muscular dogs, something like Red-Nosed Pitbulls and Mastiffs, though I also like Labs, German Sheppards and Goldens.

Felipe

Some authors have tried to show that one breed is more "intelligent" than another. I was at a dog trainig seminar once when this topic came up. The presenter (Dr. Chris Zink) said in response that if you want to test the comparitive intelligence of a Border Collie (the "smartest" breed) and an Afghan (the "dumbest"), take one of each to the edge of a cliff and throw a tennis ball over!

Would you be around the apartment during the day?

I am fortunate to have built my business around a home office, so I am with my dogs most of the day and unless it is too hot at least one of my dogs always accompanies me when I go out on appointments.

Some breeds do seem to take to training well. As you would expect, the Sporting Group breeds, who were originally bred to work and "think" in the field and the Working Group breeds usually make very good obedience dogs. But, dog training nowadays, which is largely based on the principles of operant conditioning, if applied properly can train most dogs to be good companion animals, nomatter the breed or non-breed.

I, too like the "stout" muscular dogs you describe, especially English and Staffordshire Bull Terriers.

English Bull Terriers are supposed to be EXTREMELY stubborn and resistant to any training they don't feel like. They can also have great sense of humour and a tendency to run around the house to build up speed so that they can slam their heads through drywall. Your landlord might not appreciate this otherwise quite endearing character trait.

The Staffordshire Bull Terriers (the English variety) that I have met have all been very gentle, well mannered dogs. They do tend to look like Pitbulls though, and this can turn some people off. My father-in-law's brother used to sell his Staffy quite frequently in the local pub to unsuspecting strangers, knowing full well that the dog would come home within a few days.....on one occassion towing behind it a full window frame that it had pulled out of the purchaser's house where it had been tethered. No wonder they have a reputation for intense loyalty.

I have met some very nice American Staffordshires, but they were all quite boisterous.

English Bulldogs are supposed to be very good apartment dogs. They don't need too much walking. But they do come with a lot of genetically related problems.....and an oversupply of slobber.

Would a Boxer fit the bill?

I used to like Rottweillers, until one decided to chase Monty into the side of my Volvo......$700 worth of bodywork later I have gone off the breed somewhat. B)

I will think some more.

Brent

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By the way, what is an "AKC Ranking?"

From terrificpets.com:

The Samoyed is a good-natured, mischievous, family dog who has a fondness for people, especially children. The beauty of a Samoyed with his smile which extends from ear to ear will attract attention when he is out. An owner of a Samoyed should be somebody who is willing to give of his time in both grooming and activity. He does not shed, instead you will find his woolly undercoat coming out like white balls of fluff floating through the air.
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Yes, I was actually looking at boxers.  What's the story on them?

I spend a lot of time in my apartement.

Thought of as very intelligent. I nearly got one as a boy, but Mom put the brakes on that one, so I didn't get my first dog until I was 42!

They are used as police and military dogs in Germany so they were originally bred to work and "think". Often very energetic and very playful. You might need to crate it when you are out, at least until you are confident of its behaviour.

I don't know about their hardiness to weather. I know that there is a lady at our local kennel club who is very active with her Boxers all year round.

She would probably know the good breeders in upstate NY as dog people here go to NY shows and obedience trials all the time.

If you are interested just let me know and I will ask her for some reputable contacts for you.

I can also recommend some good trainig books if you are interested in basic family dog training? Anything by Dr. Ian Dunbar is a good start.

Brent

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By the way, what is an "AKC Ranking?"

I think this would have to do with points accumulated at obedience or agility trials over the course of a season. The dog with the most points at the end of a season is named #1 obedience dog in the country.

They also give recognition to the top dog in a breed and a group.

It may also be done for conformation shows, but I don't know much about that side of it.

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I live in upstate New York, in an 800 square-foot apartment, and I'm looking to buy a dog.  I don't know much about pure breads, my only experience with dogs has been with mutts, so I'd like to hear some advice from any dog lovers here.  I'm looking for an obedient, short-to-medium length coat, medium-sized dog that can survive the weather in upstate NY and is comfortable in the space of my apartment.

Felipe

I also live in upstate New York and I have a pure breed Basset Hound. It pretty much sleeps all day when I'm not home (at least I'm pretty sure it does) which means it doesn't need constant attention from me. Also while it enjoys being outside it doesn't have to go on long extended walks every day. It is a medium sized dog (50 pounds) and mine doesn't shed that badly. He trained very well though I never went into extended training with him as I was doing it myself. But he survived last year's winter easily.

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I think a Labrador Retreiver would be a good choice, but only if you are willing and able to take it for long walks every morning and evening and have somewhere that the dog can run around for a while off leash. If a Lab doesn't get enough exercise it will drive you nuts.

Erik:

I was under the impression that the origins of Mutts were a mystery, but local pounds have mutts like Lab Mutts?

Felipe

A mutt is just any dog that is not purebred. As said, you can often guess at some of the parentage. My dog for example has a lot of Lab traits.

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Samoyed. I admit that this isn't the standard for the breed (usually whiter and fluffier). My American brethren, malemutes, are fairly similar (but bigger).

I thought I'd recognized your face, David!

I used to have a samoyed when I was a kid. They are friendly and playful, mid sized dogs, with a thick coat of white fur. They love the snow. Nothing my dog, Frosty, liked better than bounding out into a foot of newly fallen snow. These dogs would be comfortable in the Northwest Terroritories!

A real draw back about their thick coat is the fur gets everywhere. So, this means high maintainance. Also, they do love the outdoors, so it may not be the best apartment dweller, and probably not the best dogs for summer.

Toward the end of its years, Frosty developed cateracs, which made him much more difficult to take care of. He used to literally run blind and head long into trees and other obstacles.

I've also owned a Saint Bernard when a kid. That thing used to take me for walks. We named him lightning, even though he was more like thunder. These are big lovable dogs, and good guard dogs.

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If it's no cause for inconvenience, I would very much appreciate getting contacts for Boxer breeders in upstate NY.  Same for recommended training books.

felipe,

Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I didn't go to the kennel club last week, so I will try to get some information on Boxer breeders next Tuesday.

In the meantime, some books:

Basic:

Dr. Ian Dunbar (Sirius Dog Training)

Any of his books or videos are pretty good on training the family dog.

Karen Pryor

"Don't Shoot the Dog"

Advanced:

Morgan Spector

"Clicker Training for Obedience"

Uses the concepts (developed by Pryor originally for dolphin training) and applies them to all of the routines for training for obedience competition. A lot of the book however, is devoted to establishing bsic behaviours useful to all.....sit, stay, wait, walk, heel etc.

Theory:

Burch & Bailey

"How Dogs Learn"

This is a book on basic behariourist theory, much maligned by Objectivists as it applies to humans....but very good in understanding how dogs learn! :)

Generally useful:

Jean Donaldson

"The Culture Clash"

About understanding the human/dog relationship and the "reasons" behind dog behaviour from a dog's point of view i.e. it de-anthropomorphises the dog's behaviour.

And feed it raw food, not this kibble crap out of a bag! Good old fashioned raw chicken, offal, blended vegetables and marrow bones!

I will get back to you on the breeders.

Good Luck! :)

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He Brent, thanks for your suggestions. I actually did some research and found a good breeder. I bought flashy fawn male number 3 at http://www.bright.net/~boxrland/noframe/puppy8.htm. I've got more pics at http://www.d-anconia.com/images/puppy/puppy.jpg.

I've had him since monday. Why do suggest raw food?

Felipe

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Felipe,

Congratulations on the new puppy. I'm sorry to be late to this discussion, but I want to add a few points from a veterinarian's perspective. First, please be aware that Boxers are probably the number one breed for neoplasia. Make sure you have a veterinarian who is interested in preventive medicine and never treat any lump or bump casually. Boxers also have a high incidence of cardiac disease, so make certain cardiac evaluation is part of your preventive plan. On the positive side, they are great dogs! Most are quite playful and social--I enjoy seeing them come in my office.

From a training perspective, see if you can get him into a good puppy class. It's important, not only from a behavior training perspective, but also for proper socialization with other dogs and people. The books previously mentioned from Ian Dunbar and Karen Pryor are good. Also look into the books by the Monks of New Skeet.

I'm going to advise you against the raw diets. There are no studies to support their use, one that debunks it and valid case studies illustrating the dangers of infectious diseases associated with them (dangers to both the pet and owner).

Have fun,

Steve

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Also look into the books by the Monks of New Skeet.

I'm going to advise you against the raw diets. There are no studies to support their use, one that debunks it and valid case studies illustrating the dangers of infectious diseases associated with them (dangers to both the pet and owner).

Have fun,

Steve

Yes, I agree with the Monks of New Skeet books, very good.

I hear what you say about raw food diets, my neice and her husband both vetinarians seem to feel the same way. I am not a campaigner for raw food diets in any way, but on the other side of the fence:

1. The money is with the pet food giants, so funding for studies of raw food diets is probably sparse.

2. Raw food is natural food for dogs. How many wild dogs do you see eating kibble or cooking their prey?

3. From my own experience, my Goldens' skin, coat and teeth are far better on a raw diet than on kibble and I have many, many friends who feed their dogs raw who would agree with this.

4. The epidemic of cancers in pure-bred dogs is caused by something. In my opinion it is either from breeding practices....too close in-breeding, or environmental. And the one major environmental factor influencing all dogs is their food.

5. Fifty years ago no-one fed their dogs kibble.

6. Would you eat processed food your whole life? :)

7. Washing hands with an anti-biotic soap pretty much negates any health hazard to the preparer. (In fact I personally have FAR less colds now than I did before feeding my dogs raw! I think this may be to do with the fact that I wash my own hands after every feeding and after every walk). Picking up after your dog pretty much takes care of any bacteria shed in the feces? And a healthy dog's digestive tract is almost always acidic enough to cope with bacteria in raw food, is it not?

8. Have you looked at the ingredients in kibble? Yuk! :D

I naturally respect your opinion as a vet, but I also know that here in Canada student vets get one course on animal nutrition (that's one course in five years of study) and from my own research over two or three years and my own experience since I am very happy with the results of a raw diet.

BTW our student vets also get (only) one course in animal behaviour...and at Guelph U., where my neice studied, it is taught by Jean Donaldson I think...author of Culture clash, one of the other books I recommended.

Regards

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He Brent, thanks for your suggestions.  I actually did some research and found a good breeder.  I bought flashy fawn male number 3 at http://www.bright.net/~boxrland/noframe/puppy8.htm.  I've got more pics at http://www.d-anconia.com/images/puppy/puppy.jpg.

I've had him since monday.  Why do suggest raw food?

Felipe

Hey Felipe!

Congratulations on the new puppy. I really like fawn and white boxers and he looks like a character. He is not too worried about heights is he!?

What is his name?

Brent

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No, he's got no phobias that I've noticed!

As for his name, I thought about whether naming him a human-like name would defile what that name represents (by giving the name to a pet!), but in this instance I didn't think of my Boxer as just any old pet: he's going to be a well-trained Boxer owned by yours truly! Anyway, so as a protector of my livelihood from potential initiators of force, I named him Ragnar!

I'm wondering if he's getting a little rough with me lately though. Is it wise to play rough with him this early? I lightly smack him around and he gets all rilled-up and lightly nibbles on my hands.

Felipe

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