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I have a quick question: Is anyone here familiar with the term “extreme right”, “far right”, “ultra right”, etc? Is this a valid term, or is it merely a smear tag, invalid/anti-concept? What's the difference with just being “right-wing”? I've been called "extreme rightist" a few times lately, and even "right" alone is a very loose vague generality to me, but this leaves me a little confused.

Btw: Why is the text so small now? Or is it just me?

Edited by 0096 2251 2110 8105
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I have a quick question: Is anyone here familiar with the term “extreme right”, “far right”, “ultra right”, etc? Is this a valid term, or is it merely a smear tag, invalid/anti-concept? What's the difference with just being “right-wing”? I've been called "extreme rightist" a few times lately, and even "right" alone is a very loose vague generality to me, but this leaves me a little confused.

Btw: Why is the text so small now? Or is it just me?

Usually, it's used to basically say you're an extremist for the things any Objectivist would support. Taken from the wiki on "Right wing politics":

"...The term is also used to describe those who support free market capitalism..."

However, "right wing" often refers to a number of things, and generally means people who want things to stay the way they are or go back to the traditional way of doing things, i.e. having a private or hierarchal control of wealth.

On the "far right":

"...often used to imply that someone is an extremist."

Neither of these things are necessarily things you should be ashamed of, or should even take note of when called them. An extremist for the good, for capitalism, is not a bad extremist.

Edited by Iudicious
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Context is key but, religious nut-jobbery is also an atribute of most right wing definitions. However, most "far right", "extreme right", "radical right" terminology I've heard implies a sort of "national pride", "racial pride" "impose your will on the world scene" sort of mentality that goes along with most of these terms. Some often seem to be grouped with the Libertarian movement, probably in the wrong way.

j...

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The spinmeisters of the Clinton Administration were fond of using the word "extreme" when describing their political opponents. Clinton and his gaggle of statists loved to throw the "extremist" charge at Newt Gingrich and his gaggle of statists. Since then, the Left has continued to use it as a favorite term when describing almost anyone who opposes their policies.

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The use of "extreme" goes back to the 1960s at least, because Ayn Rand wrote an essay on it "Extremism and the art of Smearing", iirc.

Btw, there is a spectrum that sometimes defines right wing as pro-freedom and left wing is totalitarianism.

<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

Totalitarinaism---------------------------Half Free-----------------------Individual rights.

With this spectrum you can say that conservatives are in the middle of the spectrum, and Objectivist are extreme right wingers. Actually, this way of classifying people politically is the clearest I know of because it focuses on the essential of individual rights.

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The use of "extreme" goes back to the 1960s at least, because Ayn Rand wrote an essay on it "Extremism and the art of Smearing", iirc.

Right, wasn't it Barry Goldwater who said "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice." during the 1964 presidential campaign?

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For any debate, there are only two virtuous positions; the extreme ones. One is absolutely right, and anything else is absolutely wrong. A "moderate" position is, in addition, fundamentally evil because it is logically contradictory, requires the abandonment of man's proper means of survival, and can never be the result of an innocent error of knowledge.

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When someone calls you right wing they usually have a spectrum in mind with socialist/big government types on the "left" and pro-business people on the "right." This spectrum sounds like a communist invention to me, since it categorises you based on whether you are on the side of the exploiters (bosses) or the exploited (workers).

If you think that whole notion is rubbish then you might prefer a different spectrum such as the one above with "use of force" at one end and "individual rights" at the other, in which case socialists and fascists are at the *same end* and the capitalist U.S. is at the other end (the good one).

Edited by philosopher
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Take it as a compliment.

You're extremely right.

If we were just talking about pro-business, pro-capitalism then extreme right would be a compliment indeed.

But bare in mind that the right wing has been hijacked by mystics of a different kind.

When people talk about "extreme right wing" these days they are often talking as much about bible-thumping, fag hating, anti-choice fanatics who want to intrude on individual freedom just as much as the left wing, but in a different way.

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If we were just talking about pro-business, pro-capitalism then extreme right would be a compliment indeed.

But bare in mind that the right wing has been hijacked by mystics of a different kind.

When people talk about "extreme right wing" these days they are often talking as much about bible-thumping, fag hating, anti-choice fanatics who want to intrude on individual freedom just as much as the left wing, but in a different way.

True. It seems that the left-right spectrum is more of a Political freedom in exchange for economics vs Vice Versa.

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True. It seems that the left-right spectrum is more of a Political freedom in exchange for economics vs Vice Versa.

That is not to say that I won't be voting straight Republican tickets (or independant when it won't just take the vote away from the conservative) until at least 2012.

If the goal of the two political parties is, as it seems, to take away freedoms from Americans I will choose my right to work and keep the fruits of my labour over all others.

My work is my pursuit of happiness and my work is not my work without its reward so I must choose the Republicans as the lesser evil at this time.

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Most people think of extreme right wing as being fascist nationals. Left wing means Communists.

This is non-sense of course, because those two positions are very similar.

This paradigm was introduced by communists who correctly thought that if people had to choose between Nazis and Communists, that they would pick communists.

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I consider myself extreme right-wing and I am prod of it! I'd pick a so-called far right/extreme right government over a left-wing totalitarian one any day since only the right-wing respects individual and human rights. Like Miss Rand said, its time Hitler was understood to be a leftist rather than a rightist because communism and nazism are just two forms of lef-wing socialist ideology.

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only the right-wing respects individual and human rights.

You make it sound like human rights are something different from individual rights. This is not the case according to Objectivism; all humans are individuals, and the only fundamental rights that exist are individual rights. The term "human rights" is mostly used by UN types and other socialists as an attempt to introduce new "rights" (such as "a right to a home"), and perhaps as a way to evade the fact that rights pertain to individuals.

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The term "human rights" is mostly used by UN types and other socialists as an attempt to introduce new "rights" (such as "a right to a home"), and perhaps as a way to evade the fact that rights pertain to individuals.
That's true. In fact, I'd say property rights is the only true right. All other rights like "right to jobs", "right to a home" are socialist measures that lead to totalitarianism.
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That's true. In fact, I'd say property rights is the only true right. All other rights like "right to jobs", "right to a home" are socialist measures that lead to totalitarianism.

A right is a freedom of action in a social context and the most fundamental of those rights is man's right to his own life. One doesn't have a "right" to property owned and/or produced by others. Thus there is no right to healthcare, food, a home, or a job.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Both the right and left wings have become ultra-statist over the past decade and a half, it's just a matter of where they want more government control. Rather than two separate parties, it's more like two heads of some fearsome dragon, connected to the same body. The "far right" isn't about free-market capitalism at all. Radical conservatives (in the political sense of the word) want less controls on the private sector and more on drug use, religious practice and schools. Radical liberals (again, only in the political sense) want more freedom for religion and drug use, and want to clamp down on the private sector and have it under complete government control. Neither side actually is going to accomplish anything in the end. The radicals at both ends of the spectrum will only cause this country to deteriorate.

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Both the right and left wings have become ultra-statist over the past decade and a half...

If they are statist then they cannot be considered on the "right" (whether they claim they are or not). See Thales post #7

Better yet, watch this:

(Specifically at the :40 mark)

The radicals at both ends of the spectrum will only cause this country to deteriorate.

What if you're a radical for "good", should you moderate with a touch of evil?

If you can, you should check out the Ayn Rand essay called, “'Extremism,' or The Art of Smearing,” - It can be found in her book, "Capitalism, The Unknown Ideal"

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If they are statist then they cannot be considered on the "right" (whether they claim they are or not). See Thales post #7

Better yet, watch this:

(Specifically at the :40 mark)

What if you're a radical for "good", should you moderate with a touch of evil?

If you can, you should check out the Ayn Rand essay called, “'Extremism,' or The Art of Smearing,” - It can be found in her book, "Capitalism, The Unknown Ideal"

I think he is saying that those on the rights are mostly campaigning for the most statist aspects of right-wing philosophy.

I don't think he's saying that being radical is a bad thing, except in this case, the left and the right are middle-of-the-road philosophies in their own right.

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