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Massachusetts Senate Race (Ted Kennedy's old seat)

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You're right Freestyle, they certainly won't go away and they still may be able to ram it through. That is now quite a bit more difficult.

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This made my day! I'm watching Coakley's concession speech right now. :thumbsup:

Oh the irony...Ted Kenedy's old seat is the deciding vote that stops Obamacare!

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I cannot express how jubilant I am over this. Cannot wait to see the look on all the liberal faces tomorrow. Keep hopes high that this kills "It".

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Some of the Democrats on the talking head shows are saying that now Obama needs to "double down". In other words, he should take a hard left turn. Apparently the American people rejected Democrat candidates in New Jersey, Virginia and Mass because they weren't left-wing enough. Can they really be serious?

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Some of the Democrats on the talking head shows are saying that now Obama needs to "double down". In other words, he should take a hard left turn. Apparently the American people rejected Democrat candidates in New Jersey, Virginia and Mass because they weren't left-wing enough. Can they really be serious?

A lot of people are saying that he should double down on the idea that he needs to go balls to the wall and get this health care bill passed before Brown takes his seat, though most people would admit this would be political suicide for everyone involved.

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Of course, the Senate healthcare bill may still go through as law, and of course in many ways Brown seems more left-wing than Blue-dog Dems, and so on... but...for today I'll copy what Old Toad said (FB status):

"Ich bin ein Massachusettser!"

Edited by softwareNerd

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Olbermann stated that Scott Brown was a racist teabagging redneck homopohobic misogynist ex-nude model that likes to beat women. (Or something equivalent to that.) This was based on what he considered "racist elements" and "racist codes" in his campaign. These "racist codes?" The fact that he drives a pick-up truck. Pick-up truck = liberal code for racist. Wow, I am reminded of the Ayn Rand's description of the environmental movement, "...one may justifiably conclude that, as an intellectual power, the collectivist movement is through."

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Just for fun, I decided to switch to MSNBC and see how they would try to spin this. It was HILLARIOUS!!!! Chris Mathews talking about how "dems didn't lose because people don't like healthcare. The Dems lost because they weren't liberal enough." He actually said that the only way they can turn things around is if they just ram healthcare through reconciliation. And that it would convince people to vote Democrat in November.

He actually thinks the way to fix this is to get EVEN MORE extreme! How out of touch can these people get?!?!

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Just for fun, I decided to switch to MSNBC and see how they would try to spin this. It was HILLARIOUS!!!! Chris Mathews talking about how "dems didn't lose because people don't like healthcare. The Dems lost because they weren't liberal enough." He actually said that the only way they can turn things around is if they just ram healthcare through reconciliation. And that it would convince people to vote Democrat in November.

He actually thinks the way to fix this is to get EVEN MORE extreme! How out of touch can these people get?!?!

Oh my..... wouldn't that make them Communists? lol

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Olbermann stated that Scott Brown was a racist teabagging redneck homopohobic misogynist ex-nude model that likes to beat women. (Or something equivalent to that.) This was based on what he considered "racist elements" and "racist codes" in his campaign. These "racist codes?" The fact that he drives a pick-up truck. Pick-up truck = liberal code for racist. Wow, I am reminded of the Ayn Rand's description of the environmental movement, "...one may justifiably conclude that, as an intellectual power, the collectivist movement is through."

The fact that Obama made a stupid crack about the guy's pick-up truck is comical. I thought he was the working man's President. :thumbsup:

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Olbermann stated that Scott Brown was a racist teabagging redneck homopohobic misogynist ex-nude model that likes to beat women. (Or something equivalent to that.) This was based on what he considered "racist elements" and "racist codes" in his campaign. These "racist codes?" The fact that he drives a pick-up truck. Pick-up truck = liberal code for racist. Wow, I am reminded of the Ayn Rand's description of the environmental movement, "...one may justifiably conclude that, as an intellectual power, the collectivist movement is through."

Are you telling me that everyone one who drives a pickup truck is a racist according to Olbermann? Oh my god, that's out there, waaaaaaaaay out there.

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Are you telling me that everyone one who drives a pickup truck is a racist according to Olbermann? Oh my god, that's out there, waaaaaaaaay out there.

But clearly because it came from the mouth of a liberal, it must be true?

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Are you telling me that everyone one who drives a pickup truck is a racist according to Olbermann? Oh my god, that's out there, waaaaaaaaay out there.

He and his guest apparently thought it was comparable to "state's rights" being a racist code in the '60s. But of course it still is, and actually anyone who dissents from Obama has a "racist element." Duh.

The fact that Obama made a stupid crack about the guy's pick-up truck is comical. I thought he was the working man's President.

Uh oh.... What does THIS mean then???

pickup-obama.jpg

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Just for fun, I decided to switch to MSNBC and see how they would try to spin this. It was HILLARIOUS!!!! Chris Mathews talking about how "dems didn't lose because people don't like healthcare. The Dems lost because they weren't liberal enough." He actually said that the only way they can turn things around is if they just ram healthcare through reconciliation. And that it would convince people to vote Democrat in November.

He actually thinks the way to fix this is to get EVEN MORE extreme! How out of touch can these people get?!?!

Matthews desperately wants healthcare, for your own good! Still, even for a pragmatic Democrat politician, accepting the Senate bill might be an appealing route. He could reason this way: without a healthcare bill, you'll be lambasted for wasting a whole year, and you'll lose anyway; OTOH, with such a bill, come this election, there will be almost no obvious negatives, and one can claim that the GOP was making a fuss about a bill that has kept most people's healthcare intact while expanding coverage to others. Edited by softwareNerd

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Can they really be serious?

Yes, they are serious. The real deal collectivist-statists are in charge of the US government now. These aren't the usual pragmatist politicians we've seen in the past.

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OTOH, with such a bill, come this election, there will be almost no obvious negatives, and one can claim that the GOP was making a fuss about a bill that has kept most people's healthcare intact while expanding coverage to others.

I'm considering this the inevitable result - especially considering that all the damaging effects of the bill purposely do not go into effect for a few years. That will make it easy for Dems to maintain power - as you said - and ultimately make more decisions to destroy the economy. Is there *any* hope left? Should we be hoping for *major* short-term economic ruin in order to oust many of the Dems and bring some hope for a return to free-market principles? Even though the Republicans are more opportunists than champions of the free market.

:thumbsup:

Edited by brian0918

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He actually thinks the way to fix this is to get EVEN MORE extreme! How out of touch can these people get?!?!

Hey, when the Kool-Aid is that tasty, who cares whether it's poisoned as well?

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Is there *any* hope left? Should we be hoping for *major* short-term economic ruin in order to oust many of the Dems and bring some hope for a return to free-market principles?

No. Because,

(1) the Republicans won't fix it, and then we'll just have the short-term economic ruin to contend with;

(2) historically, mere events don't change people's views except for the very short-term, and

(3) the American people are being exposed to the rapid spread of Objectivism and are becoming more likely to adopt free-market views based on the appeal of the ideas, rather than only as a response to economic problems (though the latter is providing a short-term acceleration to the spread of these ideas, the spread of Objectivism has been growing quietly for some time, particularly with the spread of web sites, blogs and forums on the Internet).

Until we have candidates for office willing to advocate and vote for individual rights, electing Republicans, or keeping gridlock, is an effort at buying time while the culture moves to embrace capitalism.

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He actually thinks the way to fix this is to get EVEN MORE extreme! How out of touch can these people get?!?!

It is true that Obama has lost support on the left because of what they perceive as compromises on the health care bill. The removal of single-payer, which is what they really lust after, was a blow. Many leftists view the current version of the health-care bill as a sellout to corporate interests in the insurance industry. Tacking left would bring these people back into the fold. And don't make the mistake of thinking that the independents who are abandoning the Democrats are doing so for principled reasons. Their concerns are often very concrete-bound, based on what we would consider non-essentials such as cost, or the specter of cuts in Medicare payments. A revised version of the plan that gives the left what it wants while assuaging the concrete-bound concerns of the middle could gain support if presented properly. The Democrats were arrogant in their victory and thought they didn't have to persuade the voting public to support their plans; tonight they were shown otherwise. That doesn't mean they can't retailer their message.

Tonight the voters in Massachusetts threw a spanner into the works, but the machine is still running. Tonight, celebrate. Tomorrow, get back to activism.

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It is true that Obama has lost support on the left because of what they perceive as compromises on the health care bill. The removal of single-payer, which is what they really lust after, was a blow. Many leftists view the current version of the health-care bill as a sellout to corporate interests in the insurance industry. Tacking left would bring these people back into the fold. And don't make the mistake of thinking that the independents who are abandoning the Democrats are doing so for principled reasons. Their concerns are often very concrete-bound, based on what we would consider non-essentials such as cost, or the specter of cuts in Medicare payments. A revised version of the plan that gives the left what it wants while assuaging the concrete-bound concerns of the middle could gain support if presented properly. The Democrats were arrogant in their victory and thought they didn't have to persuade the voting public to support their plans; tonight they were shown otherwise. That doesn't mean they can't retailer their message.

Tonight the voters in Massachusetts threw a spanner into the works, but the machine is still running. Tonight, celebrate. Tomorrow, get back to activism.

Quote for emphasis.

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It is true that Obama has lost support on the left because of what they perceive as compromises on the health care bill. The removal of single-payer, which is what they really lust after, was a blow. Many leftists view the current version of the health-care bill as a sellout to corporate interests in the insurance industry. Tacking left would bring these people back into the fold.
Most of those who strongly want government-run healthcare are strongly Democratic and anecdotal evidence shows that they did not stay home pouting but were trying to get other less committed Democrat-leaning voters to go out and vote.

And don't make the mistake of thinking that the independents who are abandoning the Democrats are doing so for principled reasons. Their concerns are often very concrete-bound, based on what we would consider non-essentials such as cost, or the specter of cuts in Medicare payments.
True, this is a revolt by the "independent" and the mildly-Democratic voter.

A revised version of the plan that gives the left what it wants while assuaging the concrete-bound concerns of the middle could gain support if presented properly. The Democrats were arrogant in their victory and thought they didn't have to persuade the voting public to support their plans; tonight they were shown otherwise. That doesn't mean they can't retailer their message.
Even though the folks on "Daily Kos" and "Naked Capitalism" speak of Obama as a right-leaning president, when push comes to shove, they will go along with whatever they can get.

Tonight the voters in Massachusetts threw a spanner into the works, but the machine is still running. Tonight, celebrate. Tomorrow, get back to activism.
Too true.

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Tonight the voters in Massachusetts threw a spanner into the works, but the machine is still running. Tonight, celebrate. Tomorrow, get back to activism.

Yes, if the Republicans have demonstrated anything in recent years, it's that they have an amazing ability to choose political expediency over principal. People need to keep constant pressure on the Republicans to do the right thing and to make it clear that they will not get our support when they vote in favor of bad policies.

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