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America the beautiful

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In spite of all the things wrong with the US (mostly caused by socialism and Islam) I want to know the members' opinions on what is still awesome about this great country. For starters, I'd say the fact that people can still make billions and million of $$$ by being honest businessmen :pimp: .

I don't want to undercut your question about finding the things that are still great about America. But as a sidebar, I just want to point out that there's something bizarre about saying that most of our problems are caused by "socialism and Islam." If you're looking for religions to blame, Christianity has wrought far more damage, including but not limited to motivating the moral argument for socialism, and underpinning pacifism in response to Islamic terrorists.

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Anyway, the problems are caused by various forms of mysticism. I agree it's great that you can still make millions by being an honest businessman, although I wouldn't be sure about the billions part. It's a lot more difficult than it ought to be, anyway.

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In spite of all the things wrong with the US (mostly caused by socialism and Islam) I want to know the members' opinions on what is still awesome about this great country. For starters, I'd say the fact that people can still make billions and million of $$$ by being honest businessmen :pimp: .

In spite of everything, technical innovation lives in America. There is a kind of free spirited adventure that goes on in spite of the many actions that government takes to squash it. How long it can last, I do not know. Americans, unlike the Russian people, do not have built in spirit of doom and gloom. Hand an American a lemon and he will try to open a lemonade stand.

Bob Kolker

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For starters, I'd say the fact that people can still make billions and million of $$$ by being honest businessmen :pimp: .

Unfortunately, under the current mixed economic system many of those making large sums benefit from favors and deals being passed out by politicians. That is the inevitable result of combining economics with politics.

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Unfortunately, under the current mixed economic system many of those making large sums benefit from favors and deals being passed out by politicians. That is the inevitable result of combining economics with politics.

True that. It has long been in the politicians best interest to make it so. The favors they give they can take away.

As to what is still great about this country... well... I'm in a pessimistic mood lately.

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Honestly I don't think religion is the problem. I think the attempts to stiff-arm people into your religion are the problem. I look at the current state of mainstream Christianity and I think it's actually an okay balance. Even the most Evangelical Christians in this country are pretty mild, the "worst" I've seen an Evangelical Christian do in this country was street-preach. The problem, in my opinion, comes from when people try to use their religion to limit the personal freedoms of others, which sadly is happening in the middle east right now.

And that's one of the reasons I find this country so magnificent, you have the freedom to choose what you listen too. If a Muslim came to my door to tell me about the Koran, I could choose to listen or not; he has his freedom to do what he thinks is right and I have freedom to do what I think is right.

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Honestly I don't think religion is the problem. I think the attempts to stiff-arm people into your religion are the problem. I look at the current state of mainstream Christianity and I think it's actually an okay balance. Even the most Evangelical Christians in this country are pretty mild, the "worst" I've seen an Evangelical Christian do in this country was street-preach. The problem, in my opinion, comes from when people try to use their religion to limit the personal freedoms of others, which sadly is happening in the middle east right now.

On the contrary, millions of Christians do precisely that as well. Are you forgetting the abortion issue?

Granted only a small minority of Christians today appear to be trying to ban homosexuality, or "living together in sin" or the like, but it wasn't that long ago that they were doing so in larger numbers.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So sorry I forgot about this topic. I agree that Islam qua Islam is not the problem in the US, per se, but it is the biggest evil after communism out there today. I do think Islam, communism and socialism should be totally eradicated from the world if Americans are to enjoy peace and freedom. Islam also is the biggest threat to our freedom today. As far as Christians are concerned, they're mostly good people, only misguided by mysticism. I'd say many, if not most, Christians in America are firm believers in free market economics, but for the wrong reasons. :rolleyes:

Still, I firmly believe that America is the best and only hope for freedom in the world today and I don't see the socialists or Muslims winning any day soon.

Unfortunately, under the current mixed economic system many of those making large sums benefit from favors and deals being passed out by politicians. That is the inevitable result of combining economics with politics.
I couldn't agree more with you. The only reason why we see the state of our economy today as it is today is because of government siding with the collective interests, instead of siding with the capitalist interests. But I think still that the only thing that stops "the average Joe" from becoming a billionaire today is just plain stupidity and lack of virtue. America is much freeer after the Reagan revolution, although there are many criticisms that can be made of him.
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So sorry I forgot about this topic. I agree that Islam qua Islam is not the problem in the US, per se, but it is the biggest evil after communism out there today. I do think Islam, communism and socialism should be totally eradicated from the world if Americans are to enjoy peace and freedom. Islam also is the biggest threat to our freedom today. As far as Christians are concerned, they're mostly good people, only misguided by mysticism. I'd say many, if not most, Christians in America are firm believers in free market economics, but for the wrong reasons. :rolleyes:

I disagree. Many Christians are good people, or at least not evil. Sure. The same is true of many Muslims (though perhaps not as many). But the ideas of both Christianity and Islam are fundamentally the same: fundamentally mystical, anti-happiness, and anti-freedom. The extent to which many Christians fail to embrace these ideas is a consequence of the fact that they live in a culture that has been influenced by the Enlightenment and has caused the separation of religion from secular affairs. Muslims who have lived in a America for a generation or two are the same way. Had history been different, and had an Enlightenment occurred and been sustained in the Muslim world instead of in the West, Christians would be the ones launching terrorist attacks against the Middle East.

Islam and the other threats you mention are indeed great threats to freedom today. But what is the greater threat: a threat we're faced with immediately, or the threat that makes a whole series of threats possible? If the good Christians you mention were to abandon Christianity and embrace reason, they would immediately deprive our enemies of their greatest weapons: the Christian altruist code of morality. It's this code that makes possible the pacifism that weakens us against Islam and emboldens the terrorists. It's this code that makes Republicans weak-kneed in their opposition against socialism.

This, after all, is the lesson of Atlas Shrugged. The greatest threat is the man who sanctions his own destroyers. Evil by its nature is impotent, and cannot challenge the good unless the good gives over to the evil its own power. Think of Islam 100 years ago. The Ottoman Empire was in decline, it was the "sick man of Europe." No one would have thought that pathetic Muslim kingdoms could ever pose a threat to the civilized, industrialized Western superpowers. It was not until the 20th century, when Western powers abdicated their moral certainty and declared that they bore the guilt for the problems of the third world that Islamic totalitarianism became a live political option, and its terrorists became genuine threats. Had Western powers refused to permit the nationalization of their oil fields, the long, drawn-out hostage crises involving their citizens, and the long trains of terrorist attacks without retaliation, the likes of bin Laden would never have dared to take us on.

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I couldn't agree more with you. The only reason why we see the state of our economy today as it is today is because of government siding with the collective interests, instead of siding with the capitalist interests.
Actually, we appear to agree on very little. Government shouldn't side with anyone. In fact, it should butt out and create an environment where men are free to pursue their own rational self interest. The proper role of government is to protect individual rights, not to pick winners and losers.

But I think still that the only thing that stops "the average Joe" from becoming a billionaire today is just plain stupidity and lack of virtue.
There are many reasons why "the average Joe" doesn't become a billionaire (although some certainly have) and I tend to doubt that what stops them is "plain stupidity and lack of virtue".

America is much freeer after the Reagan revolution, although there are many criticisms that can be made of him.
As with all presidents, some of what Reagan did was good and some of it was very bad. In this country, the general trend has been toward less personal freedom and bigger, more intrusive government since at least the New Deal. In some limited areas Reagan might have been a small speed bump in front of government, but the overall trend has continued. Edited by gags
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