New here, on planet Earth.

[LNeikirk]

Hello everyone.

I'm brand new here, and sort of new to Objectivism as a practice.

... alright, hell. I can't hold up formality and make a nice little message. I am terrified of the freedom I feel having adopted Ayn Rand's ideas to some degree. I feel like I need someone to tell me it's okay to feel it, even though I know that's morally against what I understand to be rational.

Worst of all, I feel desperately lonely. I almost want someone to come along and shut me down, intellectually.

Let me try again.

The first time I read Atlas Shrugged, I was horrified. I was like the Washington men she writes about; I knew what the truth was, and I was terrified to accept it. I struggled through Galt's speech and at the end of the book, I felt confused and hurt.

But somehow I maintained the air I had been maintaining for the last five or six years, and kept on living like I didn't matter, like only the public mattered, like only spiritual ideals mattered.

And all of a sudden, after bouts of depression, thoughts of suicide, and feeling literally psychopathic, I just snapped out of it.

And waking up in this new world, where I will never permit myself to lie about my intentions or feelings again, I am afraid. I am so afraid and I need just a bit of support while I'm learning to walk.

I look back on who I was, and feel revulsion. Literal disgust. I told myself that my morality was the highest and best (a regular Jim Taggart), but underscoring it all was a need to make all achievements lesser than mine by making achievement unimportant, by making the "self" non-existent.

I may write more later. It's helping me, to write. Whether anyone responds or not, reads or not.

I feel like a child, who has only dreamt of the purity of water, now finding myself in an ocean. I realize, quietly, that I have never know what it felt like to be on the proper side of truth.

Can anyone relate to me? I need human relation to this.

[khaight]

Can anyone relate to me? I need human relation to this.

Welcome.

It sounds like you've come to an inflection point in your life. You've decided that you don't want to live the way you did, but you don't have a sense of what it means to live the way you now want to intellectually. You're right, that's scary. My main piece of advice is simple: focus on what you can control in your own life and try not to obsess over what you can't control. Trust your own first-hand judgment of the truth; don't accept things just because Rand wrote them or because some other knowledgeable Objectivist says them. And check your premises. After living so long on a set of antithetical ideas, you will have automated emotional reactions that run contrary to the new ideas you have accepted consciously. Don't repress, but ask yourself why you are feeling what you are feeling and whether the reasons behind your emotions make sense. Know that you aren't alone.

It takes courage and integrity to accept the need to make fundamental changes to your life. Good luck.

[LNeikirk]

Welcome.

It sounds like you've come to an inflection point in your life. You've decided that you don't want to live the way you did, but you don't have a sense of what it means to live the way you now want to intellectually. You're right, that's scary. My main piece of advice is simple: focus on what you can control in your own life and try not to obsess over what you can't control. Trust your own first-hand judgment of the truth; don't accept things just because Rand wrote them or because some other knowledgeable Objectivist says them. And check your premises. After living so long on a set of antithetical ideas, you will have automated emotional reactions that run contrary to the new ideas you have accepted consciously. Don't repress, but ask yourself why you are feeling what you are feeling and whether the reasons behind your emotions make sense. Know that you aren't alone.

It takes courage and integrity to accept the need to make fundamental changes to your life. Good luck.

Thank you very much.

The strangest thing is that it doesn't feel as alien as it ought to. I think if it did, I wouldn't be able to comprehend it at all.

What bothers me the most, is realizing now just how incredibly strong the sway of self-sacrifice is, here in America, in the 21st Century. Why did this take so long? And how many people feel as helpless and worthless as I did? It's harrowing to conceive.

[Robert J. Kolker]

To Original Poster of post #1 of this thread: Are you a young person?

If you consider this an improper question, then by all means, do not answer it.

Let me leave you with a thought: In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is a Stranger.

Bob Kolker

Edited February 19, 2010 by Robert J. Kolker

[Robert J. Kolker]

What bothers me the most, is realizing now just how incredibly strong the sway of self-sacrifice is, here in America, in the 21st Century. Why did this take so long? And how many people feel as helpless and worthless as I did? It's harrowing to conceive.

What is really important is that you (yes you!) do not feel helpless and worthless. The reason it took you so long to get where you are is that you have been systematically misled and mis-taught through both malice (in some cases) and error (in other cases). You can now see. That is both your reward and good fortune. If others can not see, that is either their own doing to themselves or their misfortune. Do not let either their misfortune or error taint what you do and how you do it.

If you can see, then rejoice in your sight.

Bob Kolker

Edited February 19, 2010 by Robert J. Kolker

[JMeganSnow]

Welcome, Lee. There's a really great quote in Atlas Shrugged that helps me when I'm feeling emotionally overwhelmed:

"I am happy that I have seen the truth--even if my power of sight is all that's left to me now. Were I to surrender to pain and give up in futile regret that my own error has wrecked my past--that would be the act of final treason, the ultimate failure toward that truth that I regret having failed. But if my love of truth is left as my only possession, then the greater the loss behind me, the greater the pride I may take in the price I have paid for that love. Then the wreckage will not become a funereal mount above me, but will serve as a height I have climbed to attain a wider field of vision. My pride and my power of vision were all that I owned when I started--and whatever I achieved, was achieved by means of them. Both are greater now. Now I have the knowledge of the superlative value I had missed: of my right to be proud of my vision. The rest is mine to reach."

It's easy to feel lost and adrift in a period of transition, and a lot of people seem to take away from reading Ayn Rand that there's something wrong in asking for and receiving help--in the very act of wanting something from other people. This is incredibly counter-productive, and you'll realize it if you just look around you. Look at all the things in your life that were improved and made possible by other people. Are those things bad because you didn't create them all yourself in your life on some desert island somewhere? No!

The idea is, rather, that you don't have the right to demand what you want out of other people--you must trade for it. You must bring something to the table. And a lot of the time people in your position suffer from self-esteem issues where they really, truly believe they have nothing to offer; they feel like beggars hoping for some scraps of attention.

But this forum doesn't exist because the forum members are gracious dispensers of charity. The more knowledgeable people around here are here because we enjoy discussing and observing other people's intellectual progress. Oh, not every thread is perfect and people do sometimes get snippy with each other, but ultimately we're happy to have you here and we get a lot of enjoyment (that is, payment) out of discussing with you.

So don't feel like you have to strain yourself through insane contortions in order to discuss here. If people don't want to talk with you, they won't, but you can be assured that there's no shame in asking for help (albeit, you may not GET much quality help here, so be aware) or enjoying company.

[LNeikirk]

To Original Poster of post #1 of this thread: Are you a young person?

If you consider this an improper question, then by all means, do not answer it.

Let me leave you with a thought: In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is a Stranger.

Bob Kolker

I'm 22. Not sure what the average age is here, but I'd say by human lifespans I'm a young person. Why do you ask?

[LNeikirk]

What is really important is that you (yes you!) do not feel helpless and worthless. The reason it took you so long to get where you are is that you have been systematically misled and mis-taught through both malice (in some cases) and error (in other cases). You can now see. That is both your reward and good fortune. If others can not see, that is either their own doing to themselves or their misfortune. Do not let either their misfortune or error taint what you do and how you do it.

If you can see, then rejoice in your sight.

Bob Kolker

I am. As pleading as that first post may have seemed, I meant it with undertones of celebration.

I've never felt worthless or helpless; rather, I often betrayed my own abilities and talents in order to smooth things over with people, make it easier for them, even if it were harder at my expense, telling myself it was my responsibility because I had the fortitude to suppress my own light in order to not outshine people around me.

[LNeikirk]

It's easy to feel lost and adrift in a period of transition, and a lot of people seem to take away from reading Ayn Rand that there's something wrong in asking for and receiving help--in the very act of wanting something from other people. This is incredibly counter-productive, and you'll realize it if you just look around you. Look at all the things in your life that were improved and made possible by other people. Are those things bad because you didn't create them all yourself in your life on some desert island somewhere? No!

The idea is, rather, that you don't have the right to demand what you want out of other people--you must trade for it. You must bring something to the table. And a lot of the time people in your position suffer from self-esteem issues where they really, truly believe they have nothing to offer; they feel like beggars hoping for some scraps of attention.

But this forum doesn't exist because the forum members are gracious dispensers of charity. The more knowledgeable people around here are here because we enjoy discussing and observing other people's intellectual progress. Oh, not every thread is perfect and people do sometimes get snippy with each other, but ultimately we're happy to have you here and we get a lot of enjoyment (that is, payment) out of discussing with you.

So don't feel like you have to strain yourself through insane contortions in order to discuss here. If people don't want to talk with you, they won't, but you can be assured that there's no shame in asking for help (albeit, you may not GET much quality help here, so be aware) or enjoying company.

Well, it's certainly been friendly enough so far. I'm not afraid of anyone, though, regardless of my experience or lack thereof with Objectivism as an applied philosophy. In the end, I'm as familiar with my mind as anyone else is with theirs.

You must understand, that I have always felt I had lots to offer. But I didn't feel like the world wanted it; I was under the impression that incompetence and social molasses were the norm, so I slowed and buckled here and there, trimming at my growth like a botanist, trying to fit myself into what I felt was a society that I had no understanding of and no control over.

Or at least, I felt that way for some time. I'm not sure when it first started, but somewhere along the line I got the impression that things would be easier for me if I didn't protest, didn't cry out about anything, didn't put any of "myself" on the table to be ridiculed or praised, whatever the result. I'm still trying to figure out why self-destruction was so seductive an idea for such a long time.

The depression/suicidal thoughts were the result of an inner rebellion. Every day, saying, "I could be doing more, learning more, challenging myself more," and then not finding the will to do it, expecting the will to act to come to me in some mystic form or revelation; not realizing that as long as I was listening to some disembodied voice, and not my own, I would always be praying or fretting or begging for help, and never get it.

Sorry if any of my sentences or thoughts are confusing. Hindsight may be 20/20, but I haven't used my eyes, truly, in a number of years.

[FrolicsomeQuipster]

I think I can relate a bit, when I came to the part where James Taggart snapped something in me cracked too.

But now I pretty much feel that Objectivism is all truism.

[Robert J. Kolker]

I'm 22. Not sure what the average age is here, but I'd say by human lifespans I'm a young person. Why do you ask?

22 is young. As Young Person you are not quite settled in with intellectual autonomy. It takes time and practice to feel comfortable in the saddle. Most male persons are just coming into there own in the middle of their third decade. (between 21-27). All good things take a while to get used to and to be used properly. Practice makes perfect.

Bob Kolker

[ZSorenson]

This will sound weird, but try reading The Lost Symbol by Dan Brown. Forget about the nonsense concerning 'Noetic science', and pay attention to the way the book presents the concept of Alchemy.

I had some feelings of a similar nature to what you have described, and this book helped me build an intellectual bridge between a spiritual narrative, and objective rational values. Try and pull rational values out of your old beliefs.

As you read in Atlas Shrugged, you know that the philosophy you've escaped from is very destructive. Until you take the time to really read more and think critically about everything you believe in, the effects of that former philosophy will weigh on you.

My personal experience was that the discovery of Objectivism was at first like fresh air, until uncertainty set in and it took an extended period of reflection before I felt consistently certain and happy. This was about a month or two, so you know, for me. I figured that's what you want to know.

In the end, I feel really great now, and don't have any trouble reconciling things in the world around me.

[LNeikirk]

22 is young. As Young Person you are not quite settled in with intellectual autonomy. It takes time and practice to feel comfortable in the saddle. Most male persons are just coming into there own in the middle of their third decade. (between 21-27). All good things take a while to get used to and to be used properly. Practice makes perfect.

Bob Kolker

I agree that 22 is young; however, I don't think experience or maturity can be calculated based on age alone. In my opinion, some people can age more in their time alive than others, simply from an excess or lack of particular experiences.

That being said, intellectual autonomy is very new to me; not simply because I'm young, but because I never grasped how many strange little rules I was obeying for no good reason until recently.

What's the average age of people whose interests are piqued by Ayn Rand's writing? Or is there one?

[Iudicious]

I agree that 22 is young; however, I don't think experience or maturity can be calculated based on age alone. In my opinion, some people can age more in their time alive than others, simply from an excess or lack of particular experiences.

That being said, intellectual autonomy is very new to me; not simply because I'm young, but because I never grasped how many strange little rules I was obeying for no good reason until recently.

What's the average age of people whose interests are piqued by Ayn Rand's writing? Or is there one?

There really isn't one. You get people who know of Objectivism from a young age, to people who discover her in their 60s or older. I personally first read her when I was 15, and was immediately enthralled.

[JMeganSnow]

From what I've seen, most people generally become interested in philosophy (that is, in forming some kind of integrated view of existence) starting around puberty and peaking in college. Some go downhill after that, some continue to work on ideas.

[Tenderlysharp]

Can anyone relate to me? I need human relation to this.

It is part of Objectivist principle to guide you back to yourself. It may give you strength to write a journal, or find a creative outlet to focus your energy into. You could possibly study the lives of some historical figures, artists, musicians, writers that you admire. Witness the strength of character that many innovators have had to develop in order to overcome obstacles and do their work. 'Ayn Rand: A sense of Life' http://www.aynrandbookstore2.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AR72DV is a moving powerful biography illustrating the struggles and triumphs of her life.