The nature of sexual fantasies

[Eudaimonia]

Recently, I have come to discover a few things about the sexuality of both men and women that have showed me things under a whole new light. You'll have to excuse my ignorance here and not ask me to go play with my barbies since I seem to be the last one to realise these differences, and, if you'd be so kind, contribute with your personal opinion.

I have made the following realisations:

1-It is a known fact that (heterosexual) men and women have different kinds of sexual fantasies. Women often fantasize about romance and 'romantic scenarios', whereas men get their kicks from thinking about the physical act itself, and focus more on female body parts. This seems to be generally accepted.

2-Also, when in love, women reach that 'cloud nine' state in which they might feel they're being unrespectful if they think about other men and might even regard it as some form of cheating. For men it seems to be a completely different matter, since they frequently and guiltlessly masturbate while thinking about other women (porn films, magazines, acquaintances, etc) and it's totally separate from their love lives. They don't think there's anything wrong with such behaviour.

3-A lot of men won't act on these impulses out of love and commitment, they might not even flirt with other girls, but they do think about sex and engaging in sexual activities with different women frequently throughout the day. Some men wouldn't even want to have sex with the object of their fantasies if given the chance.

4-Women are more likely to have an affair out of emotional disatisfaction with their current relationship, hence they look forward to fulfill their emotional needs, but men are more hormone-driven and might cheat out of lust.

My personal experience as a woman tells me that women don't only have romantic fantasies. I rarely do, and I do think about male bodies and functional sex often. But when I'm in love, these thoughts are fleeting and scarce. My object of desire is my partner. This doesn't mean that I don't notice when someone attractive passes by or whatever, but I hold my respect for my partner above all. I subconsciously think it's an important element of cohesion that he's the one and only, even in my fantasies. In this aspect I do think that a lot of women will agree with me.

So, I wonder. Are men really made for commitment? How do you find being in a relationship satisfying when you feel the need to have sex with random people all the time? It must feel like fighting instinct all day every day. Yet a lot of men seem to seek a stable, monogamous relationship. I mean, if love is some sort of erotic friendship, the erotism is a very important part of it, and having erotic feelings towards different people all the time does not make the erotic relationship with your partner all that exclusive.

Maybe I am trivializing the human psyche, or I might fail to grasp the meaning and importance of masturbation and sexual fantasies. Maybe they just complement the 'real thing'. Maybe I am getting a distorted image of both men and women. What do you think?

[Gramlich]

I think you're getting a distorted image of men. Not all men are as you describe them, I'm certainly not. In fact, your description of your personal experience with fantasies is more consistent with my own (I'm a man). There are a lot of other things that I would disagree with in your assessment of men, but I think it's sufficient to say that you should check your premises on the matter.

[Eudaimonia]

I think you're getting a distorted image of men. Not all men are as you describe them, I'm certainly not. In fact, your description of your personal experience with fantasies is more consistent with my own (I'm a man). There are a lot of other things that I would disagree with in your assessment of men, but I think it's sufficient to say that you should check your premises on the matter.

I do not want to be prejudiced. That's the reason I asked posted this topic. I would like to have an impartial view on this subject, but I don't know which of my premises are wrong, or why. I made these assumptions based on what most men told me about their fantasy life, but that doesn't mean it's not fallacious. Also, I don't mean to offend anyone in my attempt to understand the motivational forces behind men's behaviour.

Any insight is indeed very welcome. Thanks for yours.

[Eiuol]

I made these assumptions based on what most men told me about their fantasy life, but that doesn't mean it's not fallacious. Also, I don't mean to offend anyone in my attempt to understand the motivational forces behind men's behaviour.

While it may be true that that is what most men have told you about their fantasy life, it may also be true that this is a result of it being a cultural phenomenon or cultural norm for men to adopt. Since you are speaking of men and women in general, you should consider if a distinction between behavior of the sexes really ought to be made. It may matter to the extent you are figuring out cultural norms of some place or time. All people have volition and have no instincts, so there is no reason to suggest that a tendency towards certain behaviors is a biological characteristic of a particular sex. What you mentioned about men being physically oriented and women being emotionally oriented is something I've heard many times, but it isn't too hard to figure out why many people think in this way. Plenty of popular movies portray that (what I think is) false distinction, and many people adopt that viewpoint because it's popular or whatever other second-handed reason they may have. You may be right in observing the implications of holding such a distinction, but those differences aren't inherent in men or women and can be otherwise.

[Iudicious]

My personal experience as a woman tells me that women don't only have romantic fantasies. I rarely do, and I do think about male bodies and functional sex often. But when I'm in love, these thoughts are fleeting and scarce. My object of desire is my partner. This doesn't mean that I don't notice when someone attractive passes by or whatever, but I hold my respect for my partner above all. I subconsciously think it's an important element of cohesion that he's the one and only, even in my fantasies. In this aspect I do think that a lot of women will agree with me.

So, I wonder. Are men really made for commitment? How do you find being in a relationship satisfying when you feel the need to have sex with random people all the time? It must feel like fighting instinct all day every day. Yet a lot of men seem to seek a stable, monogamous relationship. I mean, if love is some sort of erotic friendship, the erotism is a very important part of it, and having erotic feelings towards different people all the time does not make the erotic relationship with your partner all that exclusive.

As I think another poster said, I think you are mischaracterizing men and women. Though what you described can be and sometimes is the way many men act, it is not a universal rule.

Personally, my sexual fantasies are often much like what you described. The thing is, so are my girlfriend's. But we both make a distinction between masturbation/fantasy and actual, romantic/erotic actions. Just because I can bring myself to an orgasm to the thought of having sex with a physically attractive woman, does not mean I'd want or even -enjoy- having sex with that woman. Enjoying something in fantasy does not suddenly translate to an intense "need to have sex with random people all the time."

For me, it really isn't a matter of fighting instinct every day. I mean, sure, I think other women are attractive. But I've come to the realization that I would never enjoy sex with other women. I have a long distance relationship with the girl I love, and not very many people I associate with know about it (it's just something that I see no reason to talk about a whole lot around the kinds of friends I hang out with.) As such, there have been a few times where I've had the opportunity to be in another relationship, and even to have sex before. I almost acted upon an opportunity once, but every action I took thereafter made me feel dirty, miserable, and overall like a bad person. I was acting in a way that I knew to be unrue and dishonest to my partner, and, instead of being the way you seem to project it, acting in such a way made me feel, frankly, like shit. I cut it off with the other girl and I promptly told my partner what I had done, and she and I are still on good terms - and I know I'd never do it again, because I know how horrible of a thing it is to do and as such it makes me feel horrible to do it.

The point is, I don't have to fight my instincts to keep from breaking my commitment. I'm not in some constant battle with my "nature" or something of the like. I have principles and values, and one of the highest among those values is the woman I love, and to cheat on her would make me feel bad, not good. Is it instinctual for one to seek to harm one's own mental state? Tell me, does everything I've just said make me sound "physically oriented" over "emotionally oriented"?

[TheEgoist]

As much a horn-ball as I am, the generalization that men are more interested in the nitty-gritty of sex doesn't apply to me either. I think this is something propagated by popular culture that very rarely is the case. Perhaps men are more apt to have an increased number of partners, but I don't think it is because they are by nature more interested in sex.

[Hairnet]

Those estimations do not apply to me. There are probably more differences within the sexes as far as sexuality than between.

Looking at how people approach sexuality as individuals might be a better first step. "Sado-Masochistic women have x fantasy compared to sado-masochistic men". Even then I am not sure there are any common denominators.

Ultimately femininity and masculinity are attributes that are going to be heavily influenced by the nature of the individual. I have known girls of all sorts of different sexual characteristics, and guys as well.

Many guys are as you describe them, I was like that when I was 15. Many girls are as you describe them as well, but I have met just as many who are not.

[aequalsa]

so there is no reason to suggest that a tendency towards certain behaviors is a biological characteristic of a particular sex.

....

many people adopt that viewpoint because it's popular or whatever other second-handed reason they may have. You may be right in observing the implications of holding such a distinction, but those differences aren't inherent in men or women and can be otherwise.

None of this is true. Even a cursory look at the last 40 years of neuroscience regarding sex based differences in brain structures should convince you that the mythological view you present above is a fabrication straight out of third wave feminism. It is in complete contradiction to all known science on the matter. I have no desire to get into a protracted debate on the issue again, since I have extensively written on it in other threads, but I would encourage anyone who holds this view to do some research on it before continuing to advance this erroneous view of the nature of man(and woman for that matter).

To say that we are tabula rasa at birth does not carry with it the implication that we have no nature. For experience to write anything at all, it has to have a tablet to write on and it turns that that tablet is a quite complex organ with particular parts that are different in size, as well as density and the prevalence of particular receptors for particular neurotransmitters. These differences vary a bit individually, but vary a great deal with regard to sex as the result of differential prenatal exposure to androgens. The differences strongly affect behavior in the sense that a man with a missing (or more accurately, malformed) right hand would tend to perform things left-handedly.

That said, this epigenetic view is somewhat reversible and able to be affected by the environment. If a mad scientist were to take a male infant and put it in a room with no objects to interact with and then put a female infant in a room with legos and building blocks for some number of years, undoubtedly, the female would end haveing greater abilities at spatial rotation than the male. Likewise, a male child who was read and spoken to throughout early childhood would perform better in verbal tasks than a female who was raised in silence. However this hypothetical(and highly unethical) experiment would be like taking a person with two functioning hands and cutting them off to show how the man with the deformed hand in the above paragraph "performs just as well." Which is fine and meaningful so long as your a fan of dropping all context in order to add credence to your political views.

So to answer the OP directly, there probably is some innate and/or early developing differences in brain structure that relate to sexual fantasy and the degree to which the proportion of visual stimulation(as compared to tactile or olfactory) is exhitatorily different in males and females. However, that difference in sensory perception does not exist in a vacuum, but rather, against the backdrop of a myriad of higher order emotions such as self-esteem, pride, and integrity, which could cause unimaginable discomfort were they to be breached for the sake of satisfying a slightly more exciting sexual experience, which is tied directly to novelty rather then any deeper interest or rational regard.

[Myself]

Well, we have many male posters here denying the OP's characterization of male fantasies, but I'm going to take the opposite tack and confirm them, at least partially.

When I fantasize sexually (during masturbation or otherwise) it's strictly an esthetic, physical focus. I don't fantasize about personalities and I don't fantasize about imagined scenarios or act out scenes in my head. My fantasy is strictly about the sexual act itself, because to me, every other aspect that other posters fantasize about I take as a given.

I'll explain.

For me, the idea of having sex with somone I didn't find arousing -- in intellect and personality -- is totally repugnant to me. Therefore when I fantasize about sex I take it for granted that the woman I'm imagining or the picture or video I'm projecting on is my ideal mate. With that psychological need fulfilled I can focus purely on the physical act and experience pleasure without the distraction of conjuring personality. The fact is that every person can be so uniquely different and attractive in such a startlingly large number of individual ways, that I would find it very limiting to fantasize about the same personality over and over and again and intellectually draining to keep trying to invent new ones. It's also dangerous in my opinion to become too attached to an imagined personality because it may interfere with meeting and appreciating real women.

So as far as I'm concerned, give me a beautiful, voluptuous body and a face to match and when it comes to sexual fantasies I have all I could ever want or need.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Myself

[TheEgoist]

I suppose in terms of mere masturbation, I'm just concerned with the physical. I don't think women are different, except the old "setting the mood" stereotype of bubble baths, candles and all that hooplah...Which is probably false.

[JASKN]

Therefore when I fantasize about sex I take it for granted that the woman I'm imagining or the picture or video I'm projecting on is my ideal mate. With that psychological need fulfilled I can focus purely on the physical act and experience pleasure without the distraction of conjuring personality.

I have a theory that this is what all people do in all sexual encounters. They are either with personalities that suit them (or suit them "enough,") or they take for granted that the personality is there, as with sexual fantasies, or, they blank out the personality altogether, to as great a degree they can.

I have spoken to highly sexually active people, and I can always question them down to a point where they cannot have sex with someone who totally repulses them personally, or at least could not imagine having any kind of relationship with them, romantic or not.

[Eudaimonia]

As I think another poster said, I think you are mischaracterizing men and women. Though what you described can be and sometimes is the way many men act, it is not a universal rule.

Personally, my sexual fantasies are often much like what you described. The thing is, so are my girlfriend's. But we both make a distinction between masturbation/fantasy and actual, romantic/erotic actions. Just because I can bring myself to an orgasm to the thought of having sex with a physically attractive woman, does not mean I'd want or even -enjoy- having sex with that woman. Enjoying something in fantasy does not suddenly translate to an intense "need to have sex with random people all the time."

For me, it really isn't a matter of fighting instinct every day. I mean, sure, I think other women are attractive. But I've come to the realization that I would never enjoy sex with other women. I have a long distance relationship with the girl I love, and not very many people I associate with know about it (it's just something that I see no reason to talk about a whole lot around the kinds of friends I hang out with.) As such, there have been a few times where I've had the opportunity to be in another relationship, and even to have sex before. I almost acted upon an opportunity once, but every action I took thereafter made me feel dirty, miserable, and overall like a bad person. I was acting in a way that I knew to be unrue and dishonest to my partner, and, instead of being the way you seem to project it, acting in such a way made me feel, frankly, like shit. I cut it off with the other girl and I promptly told my partner what I had done, and she and I are still on good terms - and I know I'd never do it again, because I know how horrible of a thing it is to do and as such it makes me feel horrible to do it.

The point is, I don't have to fight my instincts to keep from breaking my commitment. I'm not in some constant battle with my "nature" or something of the like. I have principles and values, and one of the highest among those values is the woman I love, and to cheat on her would make me feel bad, not good. Is it instinctual for one to seek to harm one's own mental state? Tell me, does everything I've just said make me sound "physically oriented" over "emotionally oriented"?

Okay, I do see your point. I guess that I assume that, when you masturbate to the thought of someone, when you fantasize about them, you really are expressing your desire to engage in a sexual act with them. After all, it does excite you to imagine such a situation, such a desire must come from within. The way you put it is that knowing that it's such a dishonest and hurtful behaviour is what stops you from actually pursuing these encounters.

But still, I wonder if your partner told you that she was totally 'okay' about you having other sexual partners if you'd still not act on those desires, knowing that it wouldn't hurt her feelings. Maybe you would find such a relationship more satisfying. What I mean is, it seems as if the only thing that stops people from being unfaithful is the feeling of guilt that will follow, not the actual rational and emotional conviction that the person they're with is the only one they want and need.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Eudaimonia

[VcatoV]

So, I wonder. Are men really made for commitment? How do you find being in a relationship satisfying when you feel the need to have sex with random people all the time? It must feel like fighting instinct all day every day. Yet a lot of men seem to seek a stable, monogamous relationship. I mean, if love is some sort of erotic friendship, the erotism is a very important part of it, and having erotic feelings towards different people all the time does not make the erotic relationship with your partner all that exclusive.

Maybe I am trivializing the human psyche, or I might fail to grasp the meaning and importance of masturbation and sexual fantasies. Maybe they just complement the 'real thing'. Maybe I am getting a distorted image of both men and women. What do you think?

Wow-well I realize that I am taking a different view of most of the men on here (but to be fair, I am gay-so that might change things a bit).

I am constantly thinking about sex throughout the day. Not as an addict, but naturally. I work in a store that services two Universities, and attractive men walk in all the time. I certainly check them out and fantasize about them. My partner of four years does the same exact thing. We have always been honest with each other, and have even had threesomes to see if that would fulfill our natural desires while maintaining the stability of our relationship. What did we find? We had fun. It did not destabilize anything. But we really do not have much of a desire to do it again. And I think that is the key to your question.

At least for us, sexual attraction for others is purely physical. The emotional and mental aspects are solely reserved for one another. Even in our threesome, in which we established the rule that full honesty was expected, and any act that felt natural ought to be pursued, neither of us kissed the third person-only one another. That was the natural draw for us.

Ultimately, we never have to fight our instincts. Once we were honest and open about them, and explored around a little, we now have hit a balance where we are true to our bodies and our emotions. My partner now realizes that I love him precisely because I think of others in sexual fantasies-that means that I have an open, honest, and healthy sexuality.