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The Critics of Objectivism (are a funny type)

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I just wanted to share something interesting about an example of a common type of Ayn Rand critics.

This Australian mate posted a rare gem of smearing:

This is our conversation:

Me:

You haven't really said much in these 8 and a half minutes Aussie.

And no one said you aren't allowed to say what you "think". You never really explain how that's a contradiction. Other than that your video is just about throwing random insults around. And If you actully took some time out of yelling at your camera you would know that Ayn Rand also wrote non-fiction.

Him:

Nobody gives a fuck about you or your pathetic fantasies, little boy. You're a fucking joke.

Me:

(This comment was removed so I forgot what exacly I said. Something along the lines "Your the one that screams at the camera and tries to reject reality by waving your hands manicly," nothing special really... then again nothing special could be said to a rant of this type.

Him:

Seriously, you pathetic little cunt, what part of "everyone knows you're a worthles fucking loser" are you too fucking stupid to get? You're a worthless, self-entitled little cunt and you been called out. You can't deal with that. I couldn't give a fuck if you live or die, but if you're going to choose: kill yourself. You're worthless and you always will be so get it over with and just fucking die.

Cunt. (this last post was also deleted but I still had it on my mail since youtube sent me a notification)

It really shows how helpless they really are. He deleted my post that didn't really explain much but only showed that he said nothing important in his 8.30 minutes. The only good channel on there is Mr.Cropper as far as I can see.

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Mind if I stopped listening after a minute? I tried turning down the volume, but it didn't help against the hysteria.

Anyway, ignore these sort of people, reality will deal with them.

I stopped after about 20 seconds. It didn't look like it was going to be constructive or interesting, especially given the interaction you mentioned.

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Wow. I watched it and then clicked on a link from that window, to the video "Is this normal? Ask the Profile Police" where he and a female partner go through a person's profile and help with a question regarding online dating.

After seeing him rant like that for so long, it almost completely weirded me out to see him discussing something else in a calm manner, with a female cohost to boot. The contrast was startling. It reminded me of an old Will Ferrell sketch, heh.

Actually it made me wonder if that's an Australian thing--guys are hella angry by temperment, but "in the presence of a lady" they hold it in? I dunno.

Though to OP, he did note in the video that she wrote some essays and political tract, which qualifies as acknowledging her non-fiction. Still though, unbelievable rant. I don't know if I'd categorize him as a "common" type of Rand critic. ;-)

Love the second poster, Bond. :D

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A head's up: There's a new smear going 'round today, that Ayn Rand is a hypocrite because she accepted government funds for her cancer under the assumed name "Ann O'Conner," and that the tea party should dump her. Nasty stuff.

Edited by spaceplayer

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A head's up: There's a new smear going 'round today, that Ayn Rand is a hypocrite because she accepted government funds for her cancer under the assumed name "Ann O'Conner," and that the tea party should dump her. Nasty stuff.

FWIW, I had a bit of a "debate" with a friend when he posted a story on this. It basically came down to he had no real idea what her position was on the matter to which he was declaring hypocrisy. We went round a bit, then he admitted he was just trolling. The story itself was along the same vein, but it gave all the asshats a chance to smear her in the comment section. Here is the link to the original story.

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The worst type, in my opinion, are the ones who will say things to the degree of, “stop trying to sound smart” periodically throughout an argument, because I speak with proper English, or the incessant use of “pretentious” as an accusation. If I had to make a list of the most aggravating words I hear thrown at me on a regular basis, they would be 1) Pretentious, 2) Lucky and 3) Entitlement. Last weekend, I was called “pretentious and arrogant” for holding myself above a party full of intoxicated teenagers, by a man who had had only one drink, but who was acting like a complete child – deliberately closing off his mind to stagger about blindly without reprimand. He told me my view on life was too mathematical, and that I needed to just chill. “I am chill,” “have some fun”. I left – sometimes, you need to know when to stop, and this applies to conversations as well.

A few months ago, I was trying to talk to a girl, and every other sentence she uttered consisted of some variant of “here you go again, Summer, always making yourself sound smarter than everyone else…” because I was defending my position – while she was, of course, also defending her position. When I called her attention to this, it was disregarded. And don't you love the constant “you’re inhuman!” and “you’re cruel!”s?

My advice is not to respond in the way that you did, however. Never resort to, “I’m not the one who…”, “at least I’m not…!” If a person hides behind ad hominem or just generally unintelligent remarks, tell them that you aren’t interested. Sticking around intentionally is trying to be a victim, unless the situation demands their understanding. I had to do the same thing last night with a man whom I have engaged in discussion with prior, and who is accustom to utilizing straw-men fallacies. I told him I would not dispute again, then sourced him to and quoted from our last debate. He continued bothering me, so I deleted him from my friends list and ignored his private messages.

Your time is precious – why waste it?

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The worst type, in my opinion, are the ones who will say things to the degree of, “stop trying to sound smart” periodically throughout an argument, because I speak with proper English, or the incessant use of “pretentious” as an accusation. If I had to make a list of the most aggravating words I hear thrown at me on a regular basis, they would be 1) Pretentious, 2) Lucky and 3) Entitlement. Last weekend, I was called “pretentious and arrogant” for holding myself above a party full of intoxicated teenagers, by a man who had had only one drink, but who was acting like a complete child – deliberately closing off his mind to stagger about blindly without reprimand. He told me my view on life was too mathematical, and that I needed to just chill. “I am chill,” “have some fun”. I left – sometimes, you need to know when to stop, and this applies to conversations as well.

A few months ago, I was trying to talk to a girl, and every other sentence she uttered consisted of some variant of “here you go again, Summer, always making yourself sound smarter than everyone else…” because I was defending my position – while she was, of course, also defending her position. When I called her attention to this, it was disregarded. And don't you love the constant “you’re inhuman!” and “you’re cruel!”s?

Hm... did I accuse him of any of the above? I found more of those kind of remarks in he's video.

My advice is not to respond in the way that you did, however. Never resort to, “I’m not the one who…”, “at least I’m not…!” If a person hides behind ad hominem or just generally unintelligent remarks, tell them that you aren’t interested. Sticking around intentionally is trying to be a victim, unless the situation demands their understanding. I had to do the same thing last night with a man whom I have engaged in discussion with prior, and who is accustom to utilizing straw-men fallacies. I told him I would not dispute again, then sourced him to and quoted from our last debate. He continued bothering me, so I deleted him from my friends list and ignored his private messages.

Your time is precious – why waste it?

Well I respond to these people for fun... and it doesn't take me that long. ;P

And I don't really think I'm being unfair to him. He did after all throw random insults around even in the video which was the start of the conversation. He called me a "pathetic little boy" and I merely pointed out that he was acting like one.

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I just wanted to share something interesting about an example of a common type of Ayn Rand critics.

This Australian mate posted a rare gem of smearing:

This is our conversation:

Me:

You haven't really said much in these 8 and a half minutes Aussie.

And no one said you aren't allowed to say what you "think". You never really explain how that's a contradiction. Other than that your video is just about throwing random insults around. And If you actully took some time out of yelling at your camera you would know that Ayn Rand also wrote non-fiction.

Him:

Nobody gives a fuck about you or your pathetic fantasies, little boy. You're a fucking joke.

Me:

(This comment was removed so I forgot what exacly I said. Something along the lines "Your the one that screams at the camera and tries to reject reality by waving your hands manicly," nothing special really... then again nothing special could be said to a rant of this type.

Him:

Seriously, you pathetic little cunt, what part of "everyone knows you're a worthles fucking loser" are you too fucking stupid to get? You're a worthless, self-entitled little cunt and you been called out. You can't deal with that. I couldn't give a fuck if you live or die, but if you're going to choose: kill yourself. You're worthless and you always will be so get it over with and just fucking die.

Cunt. (this last post was also deleted but I still had it on my mail since youtube sent me a notification)

It really shows how helpless they really are. He deleted my post that didn't really explain much but only showed that he said nothing important in his 8.30 minutes. The only good channel on there is Mr.Cropper as far as I can see.

Me :

In fact I do see the value of this type of confession of impotence. Is the world so large and man so neurotic a being that men of this character cannot escape bar room brawls or the type of associates that loiter on corners of impoverished neighborhoods. Apparently the main thrust of this disgruntled animals disquietude is that he cannot seem to melt insignificantly into his background. The value here being one of an opportunity to cast moral judgment on this type of character and that presupposes that one love and desire the embodiment of morality that is an Objectivist. This in itself is a lesson to be learned. From my perspective the acolytes of the crusade for laissez-faire capitalism ought to take heed to the actual value of moral ambition in the character of the conductors of Ayn Rands' legacy and have an eye toward posterity because a cult mentality cannot thrive on facts and logic but the perception exists that it can in a world of fiction.

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Forgive me for the 2nd post, I felt the need to add this because he may soon block me as he has done to others, but can't seem to find a way to edit the previous post.

• I wish to live my life as I see fit, neither sacrificing others to me, nor sacrificing myself others. Is this a problem?

TheMrSeagull9 hours ago

• @TheMrSeagull Apart from the fact you're a hypocritical leech who feeds on the works of others, no. Either stop being a lying cunt or stop using EVERYTHING paid for with taxes - footpaths, roads, hospital, schools, energy to name a few.

AngryAussie

• @AngryAussie Not suprised, higly irrational strawman argument. Instead of attacking me, attack my logic. I will not allow others to sacrifice for me, nor sacrifice myself for others. Refute that, or continue to evade it, your choice.

TheMrSeagull3 minutes ago

It seems the best way to argue with these types is to provide a single form of logic. They will stumble over themselves to prove how illogical and unreasonable they are.

Edited by MrSeagull

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To me, the most frustrating people to try to reason with are siblings and relatives.

I have four siblings that are all Christians to some degree or another. I have learned over the years that arguing with them on that topic is useless. When I get them in a logic trap they make a joke about it and change the subject. But lately with the economy in such critical state I have tried talking about the economy and such, which, of course leads to metaphysics, logic traps, jokes and change of subject. I'm thinking toleration can only go so far.

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That wasn't anything I hadn't heard 1000 times.

Most of that was stuff he probably read off of another anti-objectivist tract posted by various left wing blogs.

The most insane thing was that he thought we didn't have the right to criticize him because he gets gratification from his rants, and us telling him that he is wrong would be an assault on individualism.

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Guest InquisitMind   
Guest InquisitMind

Dealing with irrational people can be a real pain in the b***. When somebody is closed to actually talk about ideas, the conversation usually evolves around personal attacks. The underlying technique is to make the other person "feel small", so that the other person feels wrong, and gives up in shame. People do this unconsciously all the time. It is really hard to actually have a good philosophical conversation with majority face to face. As much as I would prefer it face to face, many people find it easier to debate online.

But the guy in the video is like a counterfeit individual. Swearing at people and just telling them to go away, harshly, does no justice.

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Guest InquisitMind   
Guest InquisitMind
.

He continued bothering me, so I deleted him from my friends list and ignored his private messages.

Your time is precious – why waste it?

I think that is really the best strategy. Why waste valuable time, each moment that is gone, is gone forever. I have had somebody tell me a few times that "he is smarter, more competent, and brighter" than me, and an "overall better person". Somehow I did not feel tempted to delete that person though, I just kind of let it go. But that was on Facebook. I guess in real life, I would handle it differently.

:worry:

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