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I bought the CD-box The Best of Queen. There are some songs that could be qualified Objectivist. We Are the Champions reminded me of Dagny and Rearden at their moment of glory. Especially the words :

"I consider it a challenge before the whole human race

And I ain't gonna lose". This characterizes Rearden's mindset while working on his metal.

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I bought the CD-box The Best of Queen.

Oh, yeah! Queen had some wonderful material. Freddie Mercury was by far the best male vocalist the genre of rock has ever seen. I also like some of their lighter moments: "Millionaires Waltz", "Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon" & the amazing "Seaside Rendezvous".

A friend told me they were going to tour again...with Paul Rogers (from "Bad Company") as the singer...I have no idea what they are thinking. First, how do you replace Freddie? Next, couldn't they have gotten someone that could at least actually sing?

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Oh, yeah!  Queen had some wonderful material.  Freddie Mercury was by far the best male vocalist the genre of rock has ever seen.  I also like some of their lighter moments: "Millionaires Waltz", "Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon" & the amazing "Seaside Rendezvous".

A friend told me they were going to tour again...with Paul Rogers (from "Bad Company") as the singer...I have no idea what they are thinking.  First, how do you replace Freddie?  Next, couldn't they have gotten someone that could at least actually sing?

I bought the CD box because Queen is already part of the great legends of music. It seems strange they would start again without Freddie. How would they call it? Diet Queen? Queen light? I don't know if there is a market for this now. A lot of music now seems like average price wine: it appeals to everyones taste, without hights or lows. You don't dislike it but it's not extraordinary either.

I intend to make some playlists for different purposes, working out, relaxing, positive affirmations. Some song of Queen will definitly be used for work-outs.

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I don't know if he qualifies as an Objectivist composer, but I absolutely love Hans Zimmer's composures. His themes to THE ROCK, CRIMSON TIDE, and HUNT FOR THE RED OCTOBER are among my favorite pieces of music ever. So lifelike, so filled with power, such raw emotion. How about his work in THE LION KING? That was the crown jewel of all Disney Animated movies, and one of it's top features was it's amazing, memorable soundtrack... if you can get past Jeremy Irons attempting to sing.

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I love Hans Zimmer's music.

The field of film soundtrack/composition does seem one of the last places to find genuinely heroic music. John Williams is, of course, also quite capable in this regard when he chooses to be (not always though...). And some of Danny Elfman's work is also good. Occasionally Jerry Goldsmith is OK...not usually though.

Ennio Morricone was very good also ("Good, Bad, Ugly" & other spaghetti westerns). Some the oldies are great also. Max Steiner did some amazing work: among the hundreds he did are "Casablanca", "Arsenic and Old Lace" & of course "The Fountainhead".

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I don't know if he qualifies as an Objectivist composer, but I absolutely love Hans Zimmer's composures. His themes to THE ROCK, CRIMSON TIDE, and HUNT FOR THE RED OCTOBER are among my favorite pieces of music ever. So lifelike, so filled with power, such raw emotion. How about his work in THE LION KING? That was the crown jewel of all Disney Animated movies, and one of it's top features was it's amazing, memorable soundtrack... if you can get past Jeremy Irons attempting to sing.

Yeah, those are all of my favorite soundtracks (except I've never seen/heard Crimson Tide). The Rock has to be my favorite movie (or one of) and soundtrack. I also enjoyed the theme to Lord of the Rings. Did anybody else?

Thanks: I didn't even know the name of the composer to those pieces! :thumbsup:

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1. Super Furry Animals:

2. The Postal Service:

3. Ed Harcourt:

4. The Flaming Lips:

You have EXCELLENT taste! :nuke:

I listen to The Postal Service almost every day. I've called "Such Great Heights" as happiness on tap. Another favorite is "Brand New Colony," which sometimes seems as if it were taken straight from the pages of Anthem. The lead singer of The Postal Service is also the lead singer of Deathcab for Cutie, who are also excellent. I recommend you check them out, if you haven't already.

(It is intersting to not the COMPLETELY different meanings which differing performances can bring to a song. Compare The Postal Service to Iron & Wine in their performances of "Such Great Heights." While The Postal Service praises love, while Iron & Wine laments, as thought love were hopeless & sad.)

The Flaming Lips are also very good, but they have never made it to the ranks of one of my top favorites.

My most eager recommendations are The Shins, Hot Hot Heat & The Hives. The Shins' lead singer is phenomenal. Their songs can get a little down-home folsky at times (reminiscent of The Beatles, of whom I am not a fan), but much of there stuff is very upbeat and playful. It's near impossible for the to listen to Know Your Onion! without my head bopping back & forth and a smile on my face. :D Hot Hot Heat is a new discovery of mine. Although they have a rocky sound, they're able to incorporate many latin rythms, and are just generally a fun band to listen to. One of they're songs that I'm sure many of us can particulary relate to is: You Are My Only Girl (But You're Not My Owner, Girl). The Hives are beyond praise. Never have I seen a band with this much energy. They have pretty hard sound, but have never sounded like noise. Crisp, clean, dancable... Honestly, I can't even comment on the lyrics, because the music is so good, I've never even noticed them.

I could go on here for hours, but I won't. Music is one of my favorite things in the world, and if I let myself, I'd be sitting here typing all night.

P.S. About whether or not lyrics are important... You mean that song had lyrics? :P

Edit: I just went back and read the rest of the thread.

Thoyd Loki: OMG, you are a riot! 90% lollium

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After having borrowed it in cassette form from a friend many moons ago, I purchased a CD off of eBay titled "Voice of Reason" by a band called "The Fountainhead'. Somehow, I doubt that the names are coincidental although nothing in the lyrics explicitly makes reference to Ayn Rand or Objectivism. It is fairly mellow, pleasant rock music and I enjoy it. I have not listened to it for two or three months and I do not remember enough about the lyrics to say whether or not they have Objectivist themes. The one aspect that I do remember is that the lyrics seemed to convey the impression that values should be taken seriously and pursued, or that at least certain things in life are very important.

Out of curiousity, I just checked eBay and found a CD currently available for a buy it now price of $4.99. (Just search for "Voice of Reason Fountainhead" and it should pop right up.)

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After having borrowed it in cassette form from a friend many moons ago, I purchased a CD off of eBay titled "Voice of Reason" by a band called "The Fountainhead'.  Somehow, I doubt that the names are coincidental although nothing in the lyrics explicitly makes reference to Ayn Rand or Objectivism.  It is fairly mellow, pleasant rock music and I enjoy it.  I have not listened to it for two or three months and I do not remember enough about the lyrics to say whether or not they have Objectivist themes.  The one aspect that I do remember is that the lyrics seemed to convey the impression that values should be taken seriously and pursued, or that at least certain things in life are very important.

Out of curiousity, I just checked eBay and found a CD currently available for a buy it now price of $4.99.  (Just search for "Voice of Reason Fountainhead" and it should pop right up.)

I think Leonard Peikoff sued that band a long time ago for copyright infringement (and rightfully so).

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Sum 41, a Canadian punk-rock band, is great. Sometimes their songs are just so able to be interpreted as being supported by an Objectivist philosophy that I have to wonder. Of course, some of their other songs are quite the opposite. Here's the lyrics to a song I see as praising individualism, lamenting the loss of reason, and condemning society as blind and irrational... whaddayathink?

NO REASON

All of us believe that this is not up to you

The fact of the matter is that it's up to me

How can we fake this anymore

Turn our backs away, and choose to just ignore

Some say it's ignorance

It makes me feel some innocence

It takes away a part of me

But I won't let go

Tell me why can't you see, it's not the way

When we all fall down, it will be too late

Why is there no reason

We can't change

When we all fall down, who will take the blame

What will it take

Nothing could ever be this real

A life unsatisfied that I could never feel

(Some say) This future's not so bright

Some can't make the sacrifice

(Some say) It's much more than just black and white

And I won't follow

(CH)

Times like these I've come to see how,

Everything but time is running out

All of us believe in what we need

What we have's what we don't see

(CH)

Tell me why can't you see, it's not the way

(so how long, has this gone on, i don't see this ending)

When we all fall down, it will be too late

(it's too late, we can't change, what has now begun)

Why is there no reason we can't change

(we act like, its not right, why are we pretending)

When we all fall down, who will take the blame

(we've been wrong, for so long)

What will it take

(WE'VE KNOWN THIS ALL ALONG)

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It looks pretty good; what CD is it off of? I think I saw a new music video for them when I was in Canada last week, which means they have a new cd. I'll have to get it.

I have started looking more for songs, rather than bands that have good lyrics. (I didn't have very much luck finding bands that always have lyrics consistent with Objectivism). Some of my favorite songs (that have good lyrics):

"Given the Chance"-The Starting Line : A song about loving life and the potenial everyone has, if given the chance.

"Asleep in the Chapel"- Thusday : A song about questioning faith, not just in the church, but everywhere. It links faith to force and the irrationality people could do in the name of faith. They probably want it replaced with nihilism, but it doesn't say that in the song.)

"Okay I Believe You, But My Tommy Gun Don't" - Brand New : Besides the title and the first line ("I am heaven sent), it's a good song. Its about a guy who is good at everything, but his relationship with his girlfriend suffers because she hates his goodness.

"Walk of Life"- Dire Straits : Need I say more?

If anyone else knows good songs, perhaps this thread should turn that way.

Zak

[Edit to add "Walk of Life"]

Edited by realitycheck44

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My god you people write novels for responses. Ugh.

Anyways, There are some fantastic rock bands out there that really push the limit.

Rush (even there new stuff is good, even if not objectavist)

King Crimson

Mahavishnu Orchestra

ELP

And there's more.

I agree to the value assigned idea for music. Someone was mentioning Bach over Beethoven. I completely disagree, but see exactly where you're coming from. My two favorite composers are Vivaldi and Beethoven. Vivaldi for his clear representations of his visions and pictoral scenes, and Beethoven for his complex emotional outburst. To me, while Bach was good, and set the standard, he was boring as all hell.

Jazz is an interesting idiom since most jazz is simply a copy of the music before it. Most jazz that you actually hear is just a new interpretation of an older tune. Jazz is rarely "pushing the limits" anymore and fusion sounds the same in just about everysong. Miles Davis is probably the pinnacle of jazz. (He's one of my absolute favorites) There is something to be said for crazy improv stuff, but it is equal (not greater) than to be said about great rock composition and orchestrating.

Christopher, I'd be interested in talking to you more about music. I really liked what you had to say (as a composer, myself)

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"Know your place in life is where you want to be

Don't let them tell you that you owe it all to me

Keep on looking forward; no use in looking 'round

Hold your head above the ground and they won't bring you down

Anthem of the heart and anthem of the mind

A funeral dirge for eyes gone blind

We marvel after those who sought

New wonders in the world, wonders in the world,

Wonders in the world they wrought.

Live for yourself -- there's no one else

More worth living for

Begging hands and bleeding hearts will

Only cry out for more

Well, I know they've always told you

Selfishness was wrong

Yet it was for me, not you, I

Came to write this song"

-Neil Peart, Anthem, Fly By Night (Rush)

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That is exactly the way I feel about Beethoven's 9th too.

The emotion it essentially provokes in me is of unlimited passion and integrity with titanic struggles and victory.

Beethoven's music, IMO, does not reflect the correct ideas. What it does reflect to me is the perfect "sense of life".

Which is kind of funny coming from Objectivists, since Beethoven, by all accounts was a passionate Christian.

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My god you people write novels for responses.  Ugh.

Is that really a problem for you?

Christopher, I'd be interested in talking to you more about music.  I really liked what you had to say (as a composer, myself)

Is this addressed to me? You can post any Q's or comments to me here or on the music theory thread. Alternately, you are welcome to email me or send me a private message.

Most jazz that you actually hear is just a new interpretation of an older tune...

Miles Davis is probably the pinnacle of jazz.

That is a good observation & true in many cases. I have always thought of Art Tatum as the pinnacle of re-interpretation of the jazz standard.

Which is kind of funny coming from Objectivists, since Beethoven, by all accounts was a passionate Christian.

Beethoven is my absolute favorite...in spite of his professed Christianity. Was this just an amused side note? Or do you think there is some larger issue involved here?

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Is that really a problem for you?

Haha...Not when I'm trying to do a quick read while I'm at work. :P

Is this addressed to me?  You can post any Q's or comments to me here or on the music theory thread.  Alternately, you are welcome to email me or send me a private message.

Yes, it was. I might sometime, when I have a good question.

That is a good observation & true in many cases.  I have always thought of Art Tatum as the pinnacle of re-interpretation of the jazz standard.

I haven't listened to him. I'll have to check him out. I haven't listened to NEARLY enough jazz, but I'm very selective about the stuff I listen to. I have a friend who's a fantastic jazz drummer, and he's always recommending stuff to me. As a drummer (percussionist) I'm more interested in the drum driven jazz.

Beethoven is my absolute favorite...in spite of his professed Christianity.  Was this just an amused side note?  Or do you think there is some larger issue involved here?

Just an amused side note. I love Beethoven. I love his use of terrorist dynamics, and sweeping motions. If I could only write rock music (or ANY music for that matter) with that kind of emotion and power, well, I'd be a happy guy. Oh, well, I notice my writing progress more and more anyways.

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I might sometime, when I have a good question.

If you are a serious student of composition & value Beethoven I will gladly interact with you.

I haven't listened to him.  I'll have to check him out.

Tatum has recordings in a band setting:

First of Tatum Group Masterpieces at TowerRecords

My faves are the solo masterpieces done on Pablo:

First of 8 Tatum Solo Masterpiece CDs at TowerRecords

Warning, though! Since they are solo piano, there are no drums. But, you might find value in them simply because of Tatum's amazing sense of rhythmic variation.

If I could only write rock music (or ANY music for that matter) with that kind of emotion and power, well, I'd be a happy guy.  Oh, well, I notice my writing progress more and more anyways.

Ha! Good stuff...I'll spend the rest of my life trying to live up to the titan standards of excellence provided by the master craftsman. If you are able to see continual improvment & progress, though, that's all you can really ask for, huh?

You can hear one of my symphonic works here:

Schlegel Sym 6

Also, I have tons of other stuff posted if you are interested.

Do you have any of your compositions posted on the web?

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If you are a serious student of composition & value Beethoven I will gladly interact with you.

Tatum has recordings in a band setting:

First of Tatum Group Masterpieces at TowerRecords

My faves are the solo masterpieces done on Pablo:

First of 8 Tatum Solo Masterpiece CDs at TowerRecords

Warning, though!  Since they are solo piano, there are no drums.  But, you might find value in them simply because of Tatum's amazing sense of rhythmic variation.

Ha!  Good stuff...I'll spend the rest of my life trying to live up to the titan standards of excellence provided by the master craftsman.  If you are able to see continual improvment & progress, though, that's all you can really ask for, huh?

You can hear one of my symphonic works here:

Schlegel Sym 6

Also, I have tons of other stuff posted if you are interested.

Do you have any of your compositions posted on the web?

I'll check out that stuff (probably in a couple months when my finicial burden is not so hard.) I can, very much, appreciate good piano work (haha...unless it's Liszt, in which case it just makes me sick B) ). I'm gonna have to pull out my Beethoven and start listening to it again. I don't have any of my stuff posted on the web, but if you're interested, I could email you some compositions (which are essentially, in my mind, a bunch of good musical ideas with no connective flow), however, they are in midi format.

Edited by Styles2112

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I'll check out that stuff (probably in a couple months when my finicial burden is not so hard.)  I can, very much, appreciate good piano work (haha...unless it's Liszt, in which case it just makes me sick  B) ).

At least listen to the samples. But watch out, man! Tatum's technique does in fact approach Lisztian proportions. Yikes.

I'm gonna have to pull out my Beethoven and start listening to it again.

Now THAT is always a good idea for an aspiring composer. I listen to some Beethoven every day; even if just a piano sonata movement on the ride to work. & I make sure to study some Beethoven at least every week; pull out the scores to syms or anything else.

I don't have any of my stuff posted on the web, but if you're interested, I could email you some compositions (which are essentially, in my mind, a bunch of good musical ideas with no connective flow), however, they are in midi format.

Email away any time. I work with MIDI all the time; it's a great tool.

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At least listen to the samples.  But watch out, man!  Tatum's technique does in fact approach Lisztian proportions.  Yikes.

Now THAT is always a good idea for an aspiring composer.  I listen to some Beethoven every day; even if just a piano sonata movement on the ride to work.  & I make sure to study some Beethoven at least every week; pull out the scores to syms or anything else.

Email away any time.  I work with MIDI all the time; it's a great tool.

Yeah, I use Finale 2004 to do most of my composing. And it's a fantastic tool (seeing as I can't play most of the instruments I write for, other than percussion), but it is devoid of most emotion. I'm a big advocate of ebb and flow in music. It should be able to hit you like waves (orgasmic in a way). It's one of the reasons I like Rush's "La Villa Strangiato" so much. I did an orchestration of it for my orchestration class in college.

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So, To not add another thread this this area, I'd like to ask a question here. I was doing some thinking about the music business of late and I was curious about your views on it. It would seem like a good thing in the Objectivist view, however, I would view it much like James Taggart trying to force all the great people/artists to be like one another and share everything equally. (Which I suppose, that argument would lend itself more to Internet sharing). Anyways, I've been having conversations about the lack of creativity, and real ART in music, and how the record company is more interested in selling image than music. So, is it still good for the music industry to do this (seeing as they make money), or should the musicians go on strike (i.e. Atlas Shrugged)?

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It would seem like a good thing in the Objectivist view, however, I would view it much like James Taggart trying to force all the great people/artists to be like one another and share everything equally.

What do you mean when you use the word "force"? Who is initiating the force, and who's rights are being violated?

Supply follows demand. If you want to blame a group of people for the mediocrity of pop culture, blame the demand side of the market- not the supply side. The market is functioning as it should.

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Anyways, I've been having conversations about the lack of creativity, and real ART in music, and how the record company is more interested in selling image than music.  So, is it still good for the music industry to do this (seeing as they make money), or should the musicians go on strike (i.e. Atlas Shrugged)?

1) Many artists happily confine themselves to a genre, stereotype, image, or whatever you want to call it.

2) Profits associated with images send a signal out to other businessmen indicating that there is a market. That is why you get trends and fads which ultimately flood the supply side of things and overall quality goes down.

That is why people that start the trends are often the only ones who really have a shot at long term success.

For example, look at the nu-metal movement. I can think of tons of bands that have been dropped such as: Adema, Crazy Town, (Papa Roach nearly was dropped), Dope, etc.

Even the people who initiated the nu-metal movement haven't been able to maintain their success levels that they faced initially when they started (read = Korn and The Deftones). The only way to keep up in a homogenous market is product differentiation.

3) To answer your question, I think it is a good thing that the music industry sells what is being bought because it helps keep them in business and maintain profits. Doing so lets them expand into more risky ventures and invest in other projects that are more "out of the box." A lot of funding for sub-labels comes from either private individuals in the business who want to own a chunk or from the label's revenue.

Like any forms of corruption, artistic corruption eats itself alive and wears itself out. It cannot last forever if for no other reason than fads desensitize everyone to the novelty of what someone had the balls to step up and do to begin with which means that the market moves on and music evolves just like any other market.

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