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JacobGalt

The Experience of Trying Marijuana

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I don't know if this is the correct subforum to be posting this, but here it goes anyway.

I want to know from Objectivists what do you feel when you smoke marijuana. I'm asking this to Objectivists because you are the only ones whom I can trust can and will give and objective and detailed description of the experience.

I await your replies. Thanks.

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What is the context of this question?

I'm sure you know that individuals will have, variously, different descriptions of their "feeling" about just about every subject one can think of.

Objectively, how oriented are *you* emotionally to addiction, indulgence, and/or wasting valuable time?

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I want to know from Objectivists what do you feel when you smoke marijuana. I'm asking this to Objectivists because you are the only ones whom I can trust can and will give and objective and detailed description of the experience.

How can a subjective drug-induced experience be described objectively, anyway?

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The few times I tried marijuana way back in the day, I felt nothing. Literally no change. I don't know if that means the drug doesn't affect me or I just didn't do it right, but it was as if nothing happened.

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Overall it provides a general relaxation and depending on the amount used, also affects concentration. In those ways it's similar to alcohol, but I find alcohol has worse side-effects: headache, stuffy sinuses, blurry vision, very decreased motor control, as well as the hangover symptoms the next day depending on the amount ingested (which marijuana does not have). My motor control is slightly affected by marijuana, but not as much as alcohol. About the only bad physical side-effect is the itchy, scratchy throat immediately after smoking. Also in contrast to alcohol, there isn't a decreased inhibition, so one isn't as likely to do stupid stuff, unless already prone to do stupid stuff anyway.

The other positive I think is the increased sexual sensitivity. I have a very bad spinal condition that(I assume)has caused decreased sensitivity from the norm, and marijuana gives this an extremely positive boost.

As mentioned above, the first few times may not have any effect, but this depends on frequency of use and quality of the plant.

Seeing as this is an ethics question, you'd have to ask yourself: what is the purpose of ingesting this drug? You would need to do some more research about marijuana, then see if that fits your purpose.

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I await your replies. Thanks.

I got mellow. More mellow that I generally already am is like being dead. After a couple times I stopped. It wasn't very worthwhile for me.

Edit: I should add that when I tried it "back in the day" (almost 30 years ago), the strains were very likely far less potent than the strains available today.

Edited by RationalBiker

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I'd say it's similar to alcohol, only a more dreamy relaxing "buzz", minus most of the negative side effects. You just get retarded in a more pot-headed way.

It should be noted though that there are many different plants, and different qualities. That's one reason why experiences may differ. And, just as with alcohol, not everyone reacts the same.

If you're asking about the dangers, I think the biggest danger is that it's so undramatic. Alcohol is much easier to moderate, because if you drink too much and too often you're soon going to regret it. With pot you just slowly become dumber and dumber, until you only have three words left in your vocabulary: "duh", "uh" and "duuude".

I don't regret having tried it, but i'm glad I never made a habit out of it. The whole idea of smoking, or drinking, yourself to retardation is not very alluring.

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I want to know from Objectivists what do you feel when you smoke marijuana.

I got high from it one time in my life, I was in high school sometime. I smoked up in my bedroom alone. My eyes felt like they had pressure on them, then you could see the blood vessels in my eyes. It didn't feel right at all, something was wrong I thought, and I didn't like it AT ALL. And wanted it to stop immediately. I became disoriented. I think I kept feeling like I was falling/floating or something, i kept jerking or twitching or something in order to try to combat that feeling. I don't think I was paranoid, just really disoriented. I had cottonmouth, too. After like two hours or so I got really hungry. This happened sometime in the early evening I think, then I went to bed after a few hours, when I woke up, I felt soooooooooo good. Never smoked up again. Fuck that. Only thing I took a liking to,well after I was 21, was vodka. But after reading The Thirsty Muse I haven't really touched the stuff. I haven't touched it at all, not a drop in like 2 years or so. Which is good. I find excercise to give me a much better feeling, like after a good jog.

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I want to know from Objectivists what do you feel when you smoke marijuana.

There’s a wide range of experiences different people report. You might want to look up Carl Sagan’s piece, just to get an intellectual’s take on it. Above all, it’s not a big deal, don’t expect something life changing. It feels good, but if you do too much it puts you in a stupor. Like alcohol does, but it's a different kind of stupor. So have some favorite music ready to go, food that won’t take a lot of effort/skill to prepare (consider pizza delivery), and plan to spend a few hours relaxing on the couch.

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It varies on how much I smoke and how fast I consume. If I smoke a joint over a couple hours, it puts me in a relaxed and meditative state. It helps my anxiety troubles. If I smoke it fast, just think about what it's like to drink really fast. I get dizzy, my emotions (Whatever emotional state I'm in) is usually amplified. Everything around me sets off.

As far as perception, things are usually blurred and slowed down no matter what, but that doesn't really stop me from reacting as I normally would. You just seem to have a more comprehensive experience of some situation, which is why stoners are often associated with blank stares. Some of em are just really stupid, but sometimes it's just nice to enjoy something beautiful more fully. I think weed helps me do that.

I don't smoke pot on a regular basis. Maybe once a month. Mostly it's because it's expensive and I don't associate with any drug dealers. If a friend brings me some, though, I look at it as a good opportunity to relax and get in a more introspective state. Oh...And things really DO taste way better high.

Note that if you haven't smoked before, you probably won't get high the first time or even the first couple of times. I've always wondered why that is. Don't succumb to the placebo effect, though. Don't just assume you're supposed to feel a certain way, cause then you will.

Edited by TheEgoist

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I only tried pot once and smoked a couple of cigarettes prior to get used to smoking (since I don't smoke). I was pretty much just relaxed and happy. That was fine for awhile but then got annoying. I wanted things to go back to normal and you just need to wait it out. I was very frustrated the next day when my head still seemed to be in a "fog" as though I wasn't thinking at 100%. That was the one and only time I smoked it. I felt retarded and I continued to feel so the next day. I did not like the feeling so I never did it again. If I want to take a recreational drug I stick to alcohol as I understand the effects better and the next day I might have a hang-over but I don't feel retarded.

If you try it, my advice would be to just know you've just got to sit back and let it run it's course. I think this lack of forethought can lead to a bad trip. A female friend of mine smoked pot for the first time that night. She became agitated and kept going on how she was dying and we had to call an ambulance. Luckily her boyfriend was able to convince her that everything was alright. I thought that if she wouldn't calm down we might need to tie her up and stick her in the closet until she snapped out of it. She was after all acting like a crazy woman. She was in fine health and was fine the next day BTW.

One thing I can say for sure is cigarettes are addictive! The next morning I decided I never wanted pot again because I felt retarded but I did have a gnawing desire to smoke a cigarette. This desire did not subside for several days.

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I have used MJ on a weekly basis for the last 3 years (though I don't dress with/actively associate with stoner culture, for some reason people like to believe use and that culture are inextricably and eternally connected)I had never drank (like party-level drinking) or smoke marijuana until my Freshman year at College. I had a few vomiting sessions as I adjusted to the college party life and built up tolerance. I would also like to mention that bad trips are VERY uncommon, usually only occur for newcomers, and it is usually because they don't have much experience with anything other than caffeine and alcohol and they don't realize how much mindset can effect the psychological experience.

Also, I have never ever had an "urge" to smoke. Sometimes I have felt it would be nice to smoke at the given time, or that I had marijuana that I could smoke when I didn't, but it was usually just a passing thought and I carried on with my day. It's addiction rating is lower than caffeine if I remember correctly. There have been weeks where I have smoked an hour or 3 before bed almost every day that week. There have been times where I took 2 months off cold turkey because I was either out, or because I wanted to rebuild my tolerance, or some other reason. I used all throughout Sophomore year of University, and then I decided to take summer classes there as well. That summer I just went cold turkey and didn't smoke the entire time. I had it pass by as a thought once in awhile when I felt it would be nice to get to relax extra, but that's about it.

What happens when you smoke too much?

99% of the time: you get really drowsy and you just fall asleep. No harm done. As tolerance builds this will happen less and less, for some people it just doesn't happen, and so on. I used to have this happen a lot when I first was smoking and was doing it in groups where we smoked a decent bit and I was still new to it so it happened every 1 times out of 10 where I would get pretty drowsy for a half hour and catch myself from nodding off, and once or twice I actually did. People don't mess with you however, like is often the case when ur drunk passed out, as they realize this just happens sometimes. It's probably been 2 years since that has happened to me. I have gotten drowsy sometimes but thats mostly because it was amplifying my already being tired.

In my experience those people will often just get paranoid/sketchy/uncomfortable feeling I have never had this "i am dying call an ambulance!" situation Drew refers to. Not that it can't happen, but it is very unlikely and I have introduced a lot of people to it, or friends I have smoked with have with me there. Best thing to do if that happens is to get them to lay down and calm down, hospital won't be able to do anything and that feeling will likely last an hour tops. One of two things usually happens when someone smokes first time and has a bad trip. 1) They swear off of it forever 2) They realize this can happen and will try it again, they never have a bad trip again or it was simply because they smoked too much and was essentially their own fault. Usually once you get that you just have to relax and let it do it's thing and not focus on it, you will be good to go, and you will essentially just get further relaxed by the effects of the marijuana.

I always though drinking was "alright". My first experience actually getting high off of Marijuana (wasn't until the 2nd time) one of the first thoughts that came into my mind was very much like what Gary Johnson has stated, "The government has been lying to us". I knew this was true beforehand, but I never understood fully how MUCH they were lying. The effects of marijuana are so light in comparison to so much else it's comical, and I would say that if you have good company or good entertainment of some sort it can easily be just as if not more enjoyable in the recreational sense in comparison to alcohol. I also have never had bad experiences being high. One of the first few times I got a bit nauseous for a minute but that subsided.

I have also gotten *too* high (as in, uncomfortably so, where my mind was unable to focus easily on specific thoughts and sometimes roamed about into unpleasant areas, etc.) but both instances were EASILY avoidable and it was because I had eaten edibles which take longer to react and so it's easier to take more (get more high) than you intend. When you smoke or vaporize marijuana you can get some of the effect pretty much immediately, and then it gears up to your full high over the course of about 30 mins on average but it doesn't gear up much so you can do a pretty good job getting an idea of how high you will be and stop when you want. With edibles, it can take up to 2 hours before the full effect hits you and you likely won't feel anything but placebo effects for the first half hour minimum. Now, what happened both of those times is I basically laid in my bed and went to sleep because it was around 8 or 9pm both times.

Felt good as new like nothing had happened the next day. There can be marijuana "hangovers" the next day but this is usually because you went to sleep high and it doesn't amount to anything more than perhaps forgetting where you put something like your cell phone and maybe a bit of a light haziness to your thinking/general feeling that wears off within the hour if not sooner. THC also acts against what induces vomiting so it is very unlikely you will vomit from marijuana and it is one reason why it's beneficial to cancer patients. If you have any specific questions I would be glad to answer them, since others seem to have given you a general idea. I do have to question why you would think Objectivists would be the only source for a reliable answer however.

I would also highly recommend a website called Erowid, this link will explain why it is a good site:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis.shtml

It explains everything from dosage levels to chemical components to common side-effects and dangers and the like. There are also, for many of them, short and also lengthy explanations/journals by people that have used these drugs themselves in an attempt to explain them to others.

I also took a Drugs, Psychology, and the Brain class at University this last semester. We went through all the major drugs and even some consumer drugs like caffeine etc. as well as many uncommon ones. This was primarily a science class that psychologist and neuroscientist/neurobiology inclined majors were taken, and it was taught by a Neuroscientist, so I am well aware of how many of these drugs effect your brain, serotonin levels, and all of that fun stuff as a result. I mostly took it because it would be interesting and because it fulfilled a credit requirement.

Now some fun stuff:

Carl Sagan once wrote a very lengthy report on his experiences using Marijuana, I will say however that his experiences do not match mine or well..normal experiences at all, but it is an interesting read:

http://forum.grasscity.com/general/479527-carl-sagan-talks-about-weed.html

I will say that the EXPERIENCE as well as the HEALTH effects of marijuana are noticeably less than that of Alcohol, and I, as well as the majority of people I know, would much rather use marijuana than drink alcohol if they have to choose between the two. A lot of ill-side effects often come, and almost are mandatory, with alcohol use.

This is not necessarily the case with marijuana, and besides memory, reaction time, etc. you can still operate pretty damn effectively while high, whilst this is usually not the case when properly drunk, and if you have smoked enough to not get the giggles in public on incident, it can be very hard to tell that someone is high when they are as long as they aren't being stupid about it. Notable effects can last anywhere from a half hour to several hours depending on tolerance and dosage. Average time it will stay in your system re: drug testing is 2 weeks for the average/light user. It can go all the way up to 4-6 weeks depending on how heavily ur using etc. There are things one can do to cut down the time a bit.

Also, I wrote a paper for that class I was speaking about earlier, on the medical side of things, which either you or others that come across this thread might want to read, I have no idea, but here it is:

The Effects of Cannabinoids on Cancerous Cells

https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Aa8pzZ_iwaTNZGZqZmQ5Z2JfMThmdDg1YmRkYw&hl=en

Edited by CapitalistSwine

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I got high from it one time in my life, I was in high school sometime. I smoked up in my bedroom alone. My eyes felt like they had pressure on them, then you could see the blood vessels in my eyes. It didn't feel right at all, something was wrong I thought, and I didn't like it AT ALL. And wanted it to stop immediately. I became disoriented. I think I kept feeling like I was falling/floating or something, i kept jerking or twitching or something in order to try to combat that feeling. I don't think I was paranoid, just really disoriented. I had cottonmouth, too.

This sounds like you simply weren't psychologically prepared for it, and the disorientation could be a result of that or both that and the fact it was the first time, as that happened to be to a slight degree a few times when I first was doing it. This is not a normal high by any means (especially the eyes part), besides the munchies and that resting/going to sleep whilst high is often quite relaxing and pleasant and I have noticed I am more likely to have dreams when doing so, and oddly enough, I am more likely to have dreams I can control.

As far as the floating/falling bit. There are some strains of marijuana that can give you the feeling you have a slight force, almost like the air is kind of lifting u an inch off your feet (it's a general body feeling, youd on't feel like your feet are actually off the ground, it's more like a "light pulling energy"). There is one I have used that I know does this consistently called Sour Deisel. It can feel very odd the first time or two, but after that you pretty much get used to it. Most marijuana does not do this however.

It is also important not to let people smoke you up too much if you are doing it the first few times. These people likely always smoke together or with groups of others and usually their tolerance has been built up so it takes them 2 or 3x's as much to get them feeling the same way you do. Sometimes this becomes a habit as far as consumption is concerned and they don't think about it when someone new comes to try it. As a result, some people get WAY too high or smoke high-quality (high thc content) bud one of the first few times they try it and it results in a bad high because they are not prepared for it and don't know what to expect to begin with so that can lead some people to never trying it again. When I have introduced people to it I have 3 rules:

1) Never ever push them to do it. Ask them if they want to, if they say no say that's fine and they are welcome to ask to try it any time in the future.

2) When they do smoke first time, keep yourself up to date on how they are feeling so they don't incidentally get too high

3) Don't let them smoke more than 1 bowl maximum their first time unless they say they want to smoke more. Though if they aren't feeling any different or much different after this point it is almost certain this will not change and this was just one of those "dud" first times, so try again another time, don't waste your resources.

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Not how I would have described it but good enough.

This is an important point. If you have watched some of those pro-marijuana documentaries you may have seen where in California the medical cannabis clubs have pretty much got it down to an art/science in many cases where there are many different strains and hybrid breeds and they were bred in this fashion to produce a certain result/high. They can differ quite a bit depending on the strain as well as the quality of the marijuana. (Most High Schoolers get shitty schwag stuff that is basically bottom barrel, lots of seeds, and likely sent over in huge amounts from the Mexican border. The majority of people that make a "habit" out of using it usually upgrade from this exclusively to mid-range or better exclusively unless they are strapped for cash or something.

I'm sorry but I have never experienced this myself or with others, and I have not seen an indication this could even happen from a scientific/medical standpoint. I am quite certain this conception is mostly from people that have only used it a few times at most and, mostly, from the Hollywood stereotypes of marijuana smokers. This just does not happen. If it does, I have found that it is usually because that is the person's normal vocabulary. (i.e. they are a pothead AND a loser/uneducated/what have you)

Certainly agree with you there.

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The few times I tried marijuana way back in the day, I felt nothing. Literally no change. I don't know if that means the drug doesn't affect me or I just didn't do it right, but it was as if nothing happened.

It can take people 2-4 times before they feel the effects, this isn't anything new. Though most people it works by the 2nd time if not the first. I would suspect this is what happened, as well as potentially getting less THC due to improper technique with the item you smoked out of, possibly. It is pretty unlikely it won't affect you at all considering you have naturally built-in cannabinoid receptors in your brain, as does everyone.

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I do it occasionaly. Like once a month, and only when I don't have anything else going on. The physical sensation is akin (to me) to that feeling you get when you just woke up from like the best sleep ever where you just want to lay around in bed.

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Depends on how much you take, or what strain it is. The mild effect would be feeling very chilled out, but at the same time giggly and overly talkative. And complete loss of short-term memory. But that can be followed by borderline hallucinogenic effects and withdrawal from the world around you into a sort of trance.

I only tried i a few times, but I stopped because I decided altering my mindstate was just not something I wanted to pursue. I was also worried about long-term effects on the brain. And it's a bit of a waste of money and not very productive, as I could see from the lives of people who kept using it. 'Getting high' is not one of my goals, I don't want to escape from my mind/self. I do drink alcohol but only in moderation - when you're talking to people it relaxes you slightly, just enough to let conversation flow more freely. Take too much of it and, instead of feeling more relaxed, you just feel sick and/or do stupid things.

Even the 'chill out' stage of cannibis is pretty drastic IMO, and I would feel kind of pathetic about wanting to just sit there and do nothing but chill. Maybe to escape from severe stress I would consider it though... but not as a solution or a way of life, just a temporary aid.

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And complete loss of short-term memory. But that can be followed by borderline hallucinogenic effects

This would require smoking A LOT. Like, more than I ever have, and more than anyone I know.

Anyways, the main reason I have used it at such a frequency as previously mentioned, since I realized I did not explain this, is because of both health and stress issues that it helps greatly with. So far it has only effected my life in a net positive fashion, and since I know when and at what time it is best to do it (i.e. at night, after work, after schoolwork, etc.) has both increased the number of people I know through social networking doing this, as well as has been able to benefit me both with respect to my health issues and stress without feeling like a bum "chilling" since that is exactly what I would be doing at those hours anyways, the only difference being that it is now more enjoyable due to the high in general, the relaxation, the improvement in the sound of music and at times the enhancement of the entertainment procured from movies and tv shows and the like.

Edited by CapitalistSwine

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I'm sorry but I have never experienced this myself or with others, and I have not seen an indication this could even happen from a scientific/medical standpoint. I am quite certain this conception is mostly from people that have only used it a few times at most and, mostly, from the Hollywood stereotypes of marijuana smokers. This just does not happen. If it does, I have found that it is usually because that is the person's normal vocabulary. (i.e. they are a pothead AND a loser/uneducated/what have you)

It's something i've observed with friends who started smoking regularly. There's also research that indicates impaired cognitive abilities asociated with marijuana use:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20721538

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/275/7/521.abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7648994

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2801665

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7776840

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This sounds like you simply weren't psychologically prepared for it, and the disorientation could be a result of that or both that and the fact it was the first time, as that happened to be to a slight degree a few times when I first was doing it.

I was indeed not prepared at all. I had no idea what it was supposed to feel like or anything at all. I just wanted to get high, but had no idea what that was like. Plus all the stuff I was sold before was fake, because I had no idea what it looks like besides - green. dry.gif

This is not a normal high by any means (especially the eyes part),

Maybe they put something else in it. I wouldn't put it past them.

Thank you for your response.

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I tried it for the first time a few months ago. I was at a party and I shared a joint with my friend's dad (which was bizarre in itself). I was already blind drunk so I may not have felt it as strongly as I would have were I sober; it just felt like a different kind of drunkenness. My hands tingled, I felt light-headed and I was suddenly inclined to talk nonsense (we discussed chess for about an hour; it felt like we were uncovering the meaning of life).

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It's something i've observed with friends who started smoking regularly. There's also research that indicates impaired cognitive abilities asociated with marijuana use:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20721538

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/275/7/521.abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7648994

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2801665

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7776840

The impairment of cognitive abilities is not the same as this, which is what I was specifically referring to, and is completely and absolutely false as anyone who has used the drug regularly knows:

"With pot you just slowly become dumber and dumber, until you only have three words left in your vocabulary: "duh", "uh" and "duuude"."

I am well aware of various studies on marijuana, however, you should know better than to use government sources for marijuana research. It is a well-known fact worldwide that governments have been heavily biased in their research on that drug.

For instance this:

" The results suggested a partial recovery of function but the past duration of cannabis use continued to have an adverse effect on the ability to effectively reject complex irrelevant information. There was no indication of improvement with increasing length of abstinence."

My neurobiologist professor focused on this issue specifically, and compared government subisized studies vs. non-government subsidized studies. The non-government ones usually showed complete reversion to original cognitive abilities and information sorting after a period of time.

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I haven't used it in years, but it made my imagination run wild, music sound better and everything seem funny. The first time I got really high was like an orgasmic explosion of hilarity.

As it turned out, a lot of the things that seemed hilarious when I was high were utterly stupid.

The last time I used was the night I heard about the death of a celebrity who died of a drug overdose. The experience went downhill real fast and I spent the rest of the day terrified that I was going to die and burn in hell for eternity. I stopped smoking after that.

Edited by iflyboats

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I haven't used it in years, but it made my imagination run wild, music sound better and everything seem funny. The first time I got really high was like an orgasmic explosion of hilarity.

As it turned out, a lot of the things that seemed hilarious when I was high were utterly stupid.

The last time I used was the night I heard about the death of a celebrity who died of a drug overdose. The experience went downhill real fast and I spent the rest of the day terrified that I was going to die and burn in hell for eternity. I stopped smoking after that.

Damn lol.

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