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I'm 18 years old, and I'm kind of confused... I have been suffering from depression and mood swings for months now, and in this forum I read that someone else who was depressed had ADHD. Well, I looked at a list of common symptoms online, and 13 out of 14 symptoms(http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/adhd/notjustachildhooddisorder.htm) are symptoms that sounded very familiar to me...

I don't know if this is coincidence or I am just imagining this, but I am kind of reluctant to go to a doctor with my parents to get diagnosed, because I feel like I might be imagining this as an excuse for laziness or something... My brother has ADHD, so it is possible, but I thought I would ask people here first, seeing as there are some who have ADHD/ADD.

My symptoms are:

concentration problems

forgetfulness and poor short-term memory

lack of organisation

problems with creating and maintaining routines

lack of self-discipline

impulsive behaviour

depression

low self-esteem

restless mind

restlessness

poor time management

impatience and frustration

poor social skills and making inappropriate remarks(not this one)

feelings of underachievement.

The thing is, most of them are only clear when I have been alone for extended periods of time, such as now(on vacation).

Is it possible I am imagining this?

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I'm 18 years old, and I'm kind of confused... I have been suffering from depression and mood swings for months now, and in this forum I read that someone else who was depressed had ADHD. Well, I looked at a list of common symptoms online, and 13 out of 14 symptoms(http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/adhd/notjustachildhooddisorder.htm) are symptoms that sounded very familiar to me...

I don't know if this is coincidence or I am just imagining this, but I am kind of reluctant to go to a doctor with my parents to get diagnosed, because I feel like I might be imagining this as an excuse for laziness or something... My brother has ADHD, so it is possible, but I thought I would ask people here first, seeing as there are some who have ADHD/ADD.

My symptoms are:

concentration problems

forgetfulness and poor short-term memory

lack of organisation

problems with creating and maintaining routines

lack of self-discipline

impulsive behaviour

depression

low self-esteem

restless mind

restlessness

poor time management

impatience and frustration

poor social skills and making inappropriate remarks(not this one)

feelings of underachievement.

The thing is, most of them are only clear when I have been alone for extended periods of time, such as now(on vacation).

Is it possible I am imagining this?

GS , I have severe sleep apnea and I have almost all of the problems associated with ADD. It comes and goes depending on my sleep. You may want to consider this as a source of your problem as well. Do you snore really loud? Do you have people tell you that you stop breathing all of a sudden during sleep? For someone who is used to having the ability to focus really well to start experiencing these symptoms can be extremely frustrating. If you think apnea may be related to it you need to get a sleep study done! Your health is at risk in very important ways.

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I don't have ADHD (as far as I know; I've never checked with a doctor), but I've done research on it and I relate to many of the symptoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhd

The DSM-IV signs of ADHD are listed there. Some of your symptoms aren't all there. A lot of what you list may be behavioral manifestations of ADHD, but also show up for many other issues like bipolar disorder. So I'd say depression, low self-esteem, restless mind, restlessness, impatience + frustration, and feelings of underachievement are things that may suggest some sort of psychological issue, but themselves are symptoms of lots of other things. True, ADHD is often comorbid with depression, because if you have trouble getting things done, you probably won't feel so great.

Incidentally I've done some research on ADHD lately. One very big sign of ADHD is poor social skills, so if you don't have that, that would be unusual. This is because the focus and attentional difficulties leads to perhaps people thinking you're uninterested, so you end up with fewer friends. If you don't have a lot of friends, you could put a question mark there. What counts here is if you zone out while someone is speaking to you even if you didn't intend to do that. Socialization requires focus and - if you don't do focus well - leads to difficulty in making friends, not that you necessarily fail at being a friend.

I'm not sure if problems maintaining routines really belongs there, it really depends on what sort of activities a person does in general anyway. One thing that is something that people with ADHD report what is incorrectly called hyperfocus; it's more like perseveration, difficulty in switching activities. Difficulty in this regard may make it even difficult to go and eat because there are just 3 more episodes to watch of some anime, so another hour won't be too bad, you can hold out on eating, even though you planned to only watch 2 episodes and eat dinner afterwards</thought process>. Hyperfocus, on the other hand, would be literally putting blinders up. So in some ways, routine might be easier if you have a limit in what you do. Or harder if you have 15 other things you want to do.

Poor time management goes on there, but that may be closer to a manifestation of perseveration. What I mean is a person may full well know how much time has passed and even give an accurate estimate, but they insist on sticking to the current activity.

There is also problem with emotional regulation, making it difficult to be motivated. That's why I've heard that ADHD may be caused by a dopamine problem.

ADHD is strongly genetic, so if your brother was diagnosed by a good and smart doctor (I'm sure some doctors overdiagnose ADHD), it wouldn't be rare for you to have ADHD, too.

Do you have any of the more specific symptoms that I've mentioned? What I'm getting at here is if you have an actual pattern of thought going on here that's more specific than the primarily depressive symptoms you mentioned. An inductive method is necessary. A checklist at best makes for leads to follow up on, plus you have to integrate all the signs and symptoms together.

Definitely DON'T feel reluctant to go to a doctor IF upon doing some online self-evaluation tests there is indication of ADHD. What you have right now is certainly not enough. Figuring out why you have trouble being productive isn't looking for an excuse to be lazy, but rather, trying to figure out HOW to be productive. If it ends up being ADHD, that provides you with a concept in which to do research on. Doing a search on "improving concentration with ADHD" would help a lot more than "improving concentration".

here is a neat set of videos I watched yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQC-Nk5OOfE&feature=related

Edited by Eiuol
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It's going to be hard for a group of non-psychologist-strangers to diagnose something like this for you. So, take this for what it's worth, as it's purely anecdotal/off the top of my head:

In addition to sleep apnea, those symptoms are also common for a certain personality, more-or-less just for being the age of 18. An age of lots of change, many of those symptoms can appear as a way to deal with the typical things an 18-year-old deals with... again, for a certain personality type.

Since that's the extent of my 2¢, I refer you to DrHurd.com's site search function. I know I have seen articles about ADD(/ADHD) before, and I'm sure as a professional psychotherapist he has much more useful things to say on the subject than I do.

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Go to the doctor and ask, that would be my advice. When I was about 20 I started taking meds for ADD, it made an amazing difference in my ability to focus. I went from getting Cs and Ds in college to getting a 3.7 the very next semester. I would suggest having it looked it. The only real way to diagnose ADD is by getting tested. They make you perform tasks and check your ability to focus while performing these tasks (I know this sounds vague, I have never actually been formally diagnosed). Anyways your doctor will probably refer you to a specialist, a psychiatrist, for an evaluation. ADD, undiagnosed, can cause depression. Its definitely worth getting looked at.

Also, on a similar note, before my doctor suggested I had ADD, my parents thought of me as lazy. I am certainly not like that now, and I am very productive. The point is, go to the doctor if you feel this way.

Edited by Nigel
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I want to thank everyone who replied. I am quite sure that I don't have sleep apnea, and still unsure if I have bipolar or something else related to depression and mood swings. I'm also fairly sure that it's not related to my age, due to the fact that some of the symptoms were quite prominent in my childhood, such as a really bad temper.

I took two online self-diagnosis tests, and they said:

1) "Based on your responses, there's a strong chance you have adult ADHD. To know for sure, you need to see a doctor for a proper evaluation and diagnosis."

2)"It is highly likely that you are presently suffering from adult attention deficit disorder, according to your responses on this self-report questionnaire. You should not..."

This is indication enough for me to seek professional help. Thanks again for your support. :)

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I'm 18 years old, and I'm kind of confused... I have been suffering from depression and mood swings for months now, and in this forum I read that someone else who was depressed had ADHD. Well, I looked at a list of common symptoms online, and 13 out of 14 symptoms(http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/adhd/notjustachildhooddisorder.htm) are symptoms that sounded very familiar to me...

I don't know if this is coincidence or I am just imagining this, but I am kind of reluctant to go to a doctor with my parents to get diagnosed, because I feel like I might be imagining this as an excuse for laziness or something... My brother has ADHD, so it is possible, but I thought I would ask people here first, seeing as there are some who have ADHD/ADD.

My symptoms are:

concentration problems

forgetfulness and poor short-term memory

lack of organisation

problems with creating and maintaining routines

lack of self-discipline

impulsive behaviour

depression

low self-esteem

restless mind

restlessness

poor time management

impatience and frustration

poor social skills and making inappropriate remarks(not this one)

feelings of underachievement.

The thing is, most of them are only clear when I have been alone for extended periods of time, such as now(on vacation).

Is it possible I am imagining this?

Of course it can be possible you are imagining it (in psych. it's called suggestion), you are exposed to culture of over and self diagnosis of mental health.

Those symptoms you mention are symptoms of being 18.

check with a medical doctor first, not a psychologist and NOT a psychiatrist.

Then try your self-discipline, if you never trained for that it wont come just because you try hard. Don't try hard, rather persevere. Physical exercise can help both focus and acquire discipline. Try and find something you enjoy.

Read this essay, and apply it, walk 3 hours a day.

After those steps, if the problem continues, ask for expert psychological help for free at the most reputable source I know of, Dr Bonkers Institute for Nearly Genuine Research

If all of the above fails, go, fully conscious of the decision you are taking, to ask for mainstream psychiatric help. Beware though that this is alchemy to a yet non existent chemistry. Doctors, as qualified as they can be, just don't know how the relation between brain and mind actually works simply because nobody knows. Maybe in some decades we'll see improvements, but in the meantime

Don't be a guinea pig!!!

edit, you might also find it soothing to learn about the life of Temple Grandin, full blown autistic who turned up fully functional in the most conservative terms.

"woman who thinks like a cow" youtube,

"world needs all kind of minds" fora tv

and there's a good movie by HBO.

Edited by volco
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If all of the above fails, go, fully conscious of the decision you are taking, to ask for mainstream psychiatric help.

Meds are indeed something to be VERY careful of. But that does not mean a mental health professional doesn't know anything about a variety of coping and productivity strategies for the stresses or difficulties of life. Sure, anyone could spend time on Google searching for all sorts of advice. The point about seeking a mental health professional is just another resource to use. There is no harm in seeing a mental health professional even if it is to work through a temporary problem. GS wouldn't have posted about this at all or wondered about this at all unless there is SOME kind of issue that is difficult to deal with alone.

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I'm 18 years old, . . .

Is it possible I am imagining this?

Yes.

Here you are on OO.net. You probably read at least one long book before getting here. The post you just wrote was coherent and featured a long list. I doubt you have ADD, at least not the good old fashioned clinical medical disorder that would make such performances impossible.

I took two online self-diagnosis tests, and they said:

I think if you can sit still to take an online self-diagnosis questionnaire, then by definition you can't be too badly off.

Edited by Grames
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Meds are indeed something to be VERY careful of. But that does not mean a mental health professional doesn't know anything about a variety of coping and productivity strategies for the stresses or difficulties of life. Sure, anyone could spend time on Google searching for all sorts of advice. The point about seeking a mental health professional is just another resource to use. There is no harm in seeing a mental health professional even if it is to work through a temporary problem. GS wouldn't have posted about this at all or wondered about this at all unless there is SOME kind of issue that is difficult to deal with alone.

Someone who specializes in a specific area of knowledge obviously knows more about it than someone who knows generalities about it.

However there is SOME kind of danger, of potential harm, in being a patient of a mental health professional.

Everybody can make mistakes, but unlike medicine, or more specifically neurology, psychiatry is not YET an applied science, or rather it's more like medicine used to be for most but the latest years of human history, iatrogenic whether a science or not.

To back up the above statement we can compare a life saving neurosurgery with a life destroying psycho surgery, now replaced by chemical intervention.

As I said there is a potential harm in seeking the advice of this kind of professional. Irrational authority is vested on the professional and people can relegate judgement to the specialist. This is completely rational when dealing with a medical doctor for the simple fact that you hear stories, empirically, that -body- medicine does cure with a very slim chance of iatrogenesis.

Psychiatry, that is the administering of experimental drugs to alter the function of the organ we know the least of, can have enduring harmful effects. Only recently, while the history repeats itself, drugs that were thought almost harmless are found to have a very lasting effect on the brain, according to the foggy knowledge an image analysis can get us in 2011.

So GS seek professional help if you really feel you need it, but think it not twice but thrice before taking a pill.

That said, psychiatry has made SOME advances and at least in the area of schizophrenia it would appear that they figured out how it relates with Dopamine with acceptable results provided the individual is not happier as a diagnosed schizophrenic. So drugs might help, but it's surely a gamble. so as i said, better not to be a guinea pig.

Edited by volco
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In addition to sleep apnea, those symptoms are also common for a certain personality

Hello JASKN,

What personality type are you refering to

Here is a you tube video that is related to your post.

I thought it interesting and hope y'all enjoy it.

Regards,

Andre

Edited by Eiuol
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Yes.

Here you are on OO.net. You probably read at least one long book before getting here. The post you just wrote was coherent and featured a long list. I doubt you have ADD, at least not the good old fashioned clinical medical disorder that would make such performances impossible.

I think if you can sit still to take an online self-diagnosis questionnaire, then by definition you can't be too badly off.

Not necessarily.

In his book "Driven to Distraction", Dr Hallowell - who I consider the world expert on ADD, ADHD - and who has it himself - identifies what he calls "hyperfocus" in ADD sufferers.

This is the one huge plus about ADD. That you can for short periods concentrate to an extreme degree perhaps unknown to most people. (It is speculated that Einstein and Mozart had it, but who can tell?) Interspersed with your general dreaminess and defocus.

I was diagnosed with ADD in my 50's. My life from teens onward now make complete sense to me, and I'm not a 'quick-fix', easy answer type of person, so I didn't accept it for a long while.

ADD is going to play havoc with your studying, work and relationships, and likely lead to depression and low self-esteem.

It is also a lifelong condition.

But, to acknowledge it while young is a massive advantage - non-invasive drugs are improving rapidly; these together with behavioral therapy can, I'm certain, help one lead a normal life.

I advise strongly not to dismiss it as a phase, or anything else - if you have doubts about yourself or your kids get it checked out by professionals. Please.

And get the book.

:)

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I want to thank everyone who replied. I am quite sure that I don't have sleep apnea, and still unsure if I have bipolar or something else related to depression and mood swings. I'm also fairly sure that it's not related to my age, due to the fact that some of the symptoms were quite prominent in my childhood, such as a really bad temper.

When you go to the doctor, DO NOT insinuate that you think that you may be bipolar. That is an easy route to quackery. I am not saying that bipolar does not exist or anything like that. But ADD is diagnosable, bipolar is not. There are tests for ADD, the tests for bipolar are experimenting with drugs and becoming a guinea pig. Make sure you get tested for the diagnosis that is diagnosable before resorting the latter.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think I may have developed ADHD.

A lot of the time it is as though I have no control of my mind. It takes an enormous amount of effort for me to focus on things I should be doing, and, even when I do so, my mind is constantly beset by other thoughts. The most extreme example of this is when I'm struck by comments other people made.

Often, I'll think of a comment someone made that bothered me, and I'll proceed to "talk" to that person in my head (or out loud, which makes the simple minded think I'm nuts) and dissect their statement or statements ad nauseum. It's often difficult and seemingly painful to stop myself at times. I also often come back to the same statement over and over again, reiterating the exact same answer to it.

If I can avoid engaging the comment that bothers me, it often pops in my head whenever something associated with it comes to my attention. This can lead to a cascade of chatter, as the first comment creates an association with the other comments that bothered me.

The chatter can come from my own proclamations too, though, where I get a flood of "shoulds" and "have tos" and the justifications for them.

From looking at ADHD tests, it does appear that I may have developed adult ADHD. I don't remember having these problems when I was very young, but they have gotten worse as I've aged, sometimes seeming to border on schizophrenic. My symptoms may have been exacerbated via cannabis use, as well.

I normally wouldn't peg these sort of things on a disorder, but it's starting to become clear that my recent troubles with focus aren't entirely my fault.

Edited by Gramlich
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I normally wouldn't peg these sort of things on a disorder, but it's starting to become clear that my recent troubles with focus aren't entirely my fault.

Besides cannabis use possibly being a cause, long term but mild nutritional deficiency of what are called the "essential fatty acids" (essential because the body cannot synthesize them, they must be in the diet) can relate to this because those acids are used to build the myelin sheaths around healthy neuron axons. Myelin insulates from other neurons except where there is supposed to be a synapse. Lack of enough myelin permits neuron crosstalk and inappropriate associations form.

The Wikipedia article on essential fatty acids links to a section on endocannabinoids in the article on cannabanoids. The "retrograde signal" paragraph mentions glutamates as another mechanism to the same effect, so perhaps cutback on the Ramen noodles? Monosodium glutamate is added to many processed foods as a flavor enhancer.

Caution, "Dr. Grames" is not really a doctor.

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check with a medical doctor first, not a psychologist and NOT a psychiatrist.

I don't think this is a good general rule. All of my medical doctors have absolutely and completely failed in both diagnosing and then properly treating both my depression and ADD in younger years. Two of them then proceeded to take me off the medication, which resulted in only negative scenarios for me, before I was put back on it years later via a psychiatrist. I would have been much better off going to a psychologist, or, potentially, a psychiatrist. The problem is not the psychiatrists (though yes, some do over-medicate/misdiagnose of course), the problem is people are stupid, don't have common sense about medication, and they don't know how to find the right psychiatrist for their needs, and that specializes in the right things. I can say without a doubt that most people, based on my quite thorough experiences, are absolutely clueless in this area.

Edited by CapitalistSwine
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The problem is not the psychiatrists (though yes, some do over-medicate/misdiagnose of course), the problem is people are stupid, don't have common sense about medication, and they don't know how to find the right psychiatrist for their needs, and that specializes in the right things. I can say without a doubt that most people, based on my quite thorough experiences, are absolutely clueless in this area.

Well said! It took me years to find a psychiatrist that liked. And even then, as my life changed, that psychiatrist no longer fit my needs, leading me on long search to find a new psychiatrist.

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Besides cannabis use possibly being a cause, long term but mild nutritional deficiency of what are called the "essential fatty acids" (essential because the body cannot synthesize them, they must be in the diet) can relate to this because those acids are used to build the myelin sheaths around healthy neuron axons. Myelin insulates from other neurons except where there is supposed to be a synapse. Lack of enough myelin permits neuron crosstalk and inappropriate associations form.

The Wikipedia article on essential fatty acids links to a section on endocannabinoids in the article on cannabanoids. The "retrograde signal" paragraph mentions glutamates as another mechanism to the same effect, so perhaps cutback on the Ramen noodles? Monosodium glutamate is added to many processed foods as a flavor enhancer.

Caution, "Dr. Grames" is not really a doctor.

Other than maybe a bit of residual inappropriate associations (Hell if I know), I think most of my problems are merely more deep-seeded than I previously thought. Actually, reading through your notes on the art of thinking helped me out a lot. Awfully handy those are.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Not necessarily.

In his book "Driven to Distraction", Dr Hallowell - who I consider the world expert on ADD, ADHD - and who has it himself - identifies what he calls "hyperfocus" in ADD sufferers.

This is the one huge plus about ADD. That you can for short periods concentrate to an extreme degree perhaps unknown to most people. (It is speculated that Einstein and Mozart had it, but who can tell?) Interspersed with your general dreaminess and defocus.

I was diagnosed with ADD in my 50's. My life from teens onward now make complete sense to me, and I'm not a 'quick-fix', easy answer type of person, so I didn't accept it for a long while.

ADD is going to play havoc with your studying, work and relationships, and likely lead to depression and low self-esteem.

It is also a lifelong condition.

But, to acknowledge it while young is a massive advantage - non-invasive drugs are improving rapidly; these together with behavioral therapy can, I'm certain, help one lead a normal life.

I advise strongly not to dismiss it as a phase, or anything else - if you have doubts about yourself or your kids get it checked out by professionals. Please.

And get the book.

smile.gif

Although I'm only 23.. I can honestly say It is amazing I never thought of my self as "attention deficit" until I was like 21 when I realized part of the reason I have so much trouble in school is paying attention..

Then I started thinking about the way I play video games, and even though I can sit there and play one game for god knows how many hours.. Really weird when I started realizing that even if I was playing the same game.. I was doing a million different things (Or in some cases trying to while accomplishing nothing) just because I couldn't focus on the task I was given.

Once I started taking meds for A.D.D.. and eliminated focus as a factor... I for the first time in my life saw with clarity just how subtle the affects of Dyslexia are....

Nothing is quite a wake up call like having a teacher who is tutoring you yell at you for doing the same problem right until the final step and doing the wrong thing 5 times in a row at the end.. Doing exactly the opposite of what the teacher said.

I am not saying you should diagnose yourself or anything.. but you should definitely seek out professional help and try to figure out what your issues are. A lack of attention doesn't always equate to attention deficit disorder, although it is still a possibility.

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