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Welcome to the forums, Ambrose. One of the few people I converse with on a daily basis in my high school happens to be a Catholic.

Think about it.  This is not reffering to objectivism in particular but atheism in general.  Once you are dead, there is no point to your life at all, because you are not.  So, if you knew you were going to die at 7:00 AM tomorrow, then at 7:01 your life would have no meaning at all because it doesnt exist.

Why must life be endless for there to be meaning to it? Who created that rule?

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As Ive said, something that does not exist does not have any meaning because it isnt there

Right, but why must my life right now not have meaning to it? I exist.

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Right, but why must my life right now not have meaning to it? I exist.

Yes, it might be said that your life has meaning right now, but time passes infinitely onward. Therefore, we can deduct that, in the grand scheme of things, without God your life is worthless.

Comforting isnt it? :)

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Yes, it might be said that your life has meaning right now, but time passes infinitely onward.  Therefore, we can deduct that, in the grand scheme of things, without God your life is worthless.

How did you deduct that?

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Because we know that nothing in this world lasts forever

We seem to have come full circle. You've only shown that there is no meaning in non-existence. That says nothing about my life right now.

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:)

Objectively speaking, your life is worthless. It may matter to you, but even then it wont matter at death. It can be said that you have meaning now, but if there was no point to your existance in the future then what good is the meaning of your life now?

I agree, we are going in circles. Best to stop debating this :)

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I agree, we are going in circles.  Best to stop debating this  :)

That's fine with me. I wish you luck in the future, and I hope that throughout your studies you stubbornly stick to what you know existence to be, not what you want existence to be. I know I will :)

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That's fine with me. I wish you luck in the future, and I hope that throughout your studies you stubbornly stick to what you know existence to be, not what you want existence to be. I know I will 

Oh please. Do you KNOW that God doesnt exist?

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how do you know that he does (any response that involves faith is discounted on basis of absurdity)

Then we might as well ditch the theory that the Earth revloves around the Sun...guess what...its just a theory! That means it involves "faith" to some extent. Almost everything requires a leap of faith, including God. As I said, when I look at all the events which have happened in Jewish and Christian history, I cannot provide a forensic proof for God's existance, but I can say that he probably does exist.

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Then we might as well ditch the theory that the Earth revloves around the Sun...guess what...its just a theory! That means it involves "faith" to some extent.

How does it involve faith? Are you a subjectivist - i.e., do you believe that no knowledge is possible?

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call your faith a "collection of fairy tales," because it offers no proof to any of its claims. If you wish to Objectively prove why the Bible is true then please do so.

What proof is there that the lady who founded your philosophy is correct, for that matter? You cant prove an abstract concept.

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What proof is there that the lady who founded your philosophy is correct, for that matter?  You cant prove an abstract concept.

I'll take that as a 'yes' to my question, then.

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Mind you, I was an atheist for a little while...

So, you used to know that God did not exist (but just for a little while). Now you believe that he "probably" exists? Sounds like you are having a problem with your "leap of faith." Go on, jump! Remember, when God closes one door He always opens a window.

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From Ambrose of Milan:

in the grand scheme of things, without God your life is worthless

Worthless... to whom? The concept "worthless" (or "worth-full") impies a worth to somebody or something. To whom or what is my life worthless, without God?

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Once you are dead, there is no point to your life at all, because you are not.  So, if you knew you were going to die at 7:00 AM tomorrow, then at 7:01 your life would have no meaning at all because it doesnt exist.

...

Yes, it might be said that your life has meaning right now, but time passes infinitely onward. Therefore, we can deduct that, in the grand scheme of things, without God your life is worthless.

....

Because we know that nothing in this world lasts forever.

So let me get this straigth. Is this how you deduce that atheism implies a meaningless life?

Premise A: According atheism, life does not last forever.

Premise B: Any thing that does not last forever is meaningless.

Conclusion: Therefore, according to atheism, life is meaningless.

Premise A is false. Atheism does not assert that life does not last forever. In fact, there are atheistic mystical philosophies that postulate immortality.

Objectivism, in particular, takes no position on whether life lasts forever--only that LIFE IS CONDITIONAL. That is, its survival depends upon certain courses of action required by the nature of a particular living being. Someone (whose name I unfortunately have forgotten) aptly named this the "Conditionality Thesis", and you can find it in John Galt's speech starting on page 926 of latest mass paperback edition, in the paragraph beginning with the sentences "There is only one fundamental alternative in the universe: existence or non-existence--and it pertains to a single class of entities: to living organisms. The existence of inanimate matter is unconditional; the existence of life is not; it depends on a specific course of action..."

As far as I know, there's nothing in reason nor in the life sciences that precludes the possibility of altering an organism's nature such that it can live indefinitely given the requisite conditions.

Premise B is also false, not to mention absurd. I'd like to know how you ever came to such a conclusion.

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Oh please.  Do you KNOW that God doesnt exist?

I posted it elsewhere on the forum.

I bet you will have a faith argument against this. I am curious to know that argument.

By God I refer to the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God.

Let's assume that God exists. There are three possibilities.

Either God is good or God is bad, or God is a amoral -- neither good nor bad, just like a robot.

If God is good then why didn't he prevent the rise of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc, etc. God did not divert missiles and enemies from the homes of those who prayed to him everyday. God cannot be good.

If God is bad then why did he allow man to live? Why did he not prevent so much progress in technology? God cannot be bad.

If God is amoral, that means he is a robot. That the evil does not arouse disgust in him means that he has no knowledge of the good and the bad. Could such a being build the universe and be God. Definitely not.

God can be neither good, nor bad, nor amoral. Therefore he cannot exist.

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Or when I look at the image of Mary at Guadalupe.  Every fiber is colored, the image cannot be replicated by modern technology.  OR when I look at the miracles of Lourdes or Fatima.

Isn't it fascinating how Mary ususally seems to turn up in ugly, boring, economically depressed locales in dire need of a tourist attraction? Projecting, we could forecast that she'll show up next - where? Western Oklahoma, probably.

-Tom Robbins

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