Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Concerto of Atlantis

Love at first sight

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

When I first saw my girlfriend, I titled my head to the side and my eyes got all big. It was so utterly queer that someone had the same mannerism as me, but in a different and refreshing way. After you get to noticing the little things people do and you see someone starkly different... it can happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** Mod's note: Merged with an existing thread. -sN ***

The title explains my question really. I want to know how quickly romantic love can happen. Spefically, I want to know if you think romantic love can happen as quickly as it did in Anthem (I just finished reading it yesterday). Given that the two people did not really know each other's values, just what they saw in each other's posture, eyes, etc, I do not think that real people could fall in love so quickly. What do you think?

P.S., if you think the title is not right tell me. I admit it might not be right because I had trouble coming up with a title, as I often do.

Edited by softwareNerd
Merged topics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe in love at first site. I also think that some/many values can be communicated through body language.

I agree that some values can be communicated, but I despute that enough for romantic love at first site can be communicated. However, given your answer I have three additonal questions for you:

1. Why do you believe in romantic ove at first site?

2. What do you think romantic love at first site is based upon?

3. What values do you think can be communicated through body lanuage? Also, add things like posture, poise, and eyes to that question, as these can also communicate values.

Finally, I would like to request thatyou give me an example of what you consider to be a realistic example of how it could happen in real life. Please do not use examples like Gaea and Prometheus, Roark and Dominique, or Dagny and Galt, as they are stylised for a fictional stories. I want an example that is not stylised for fictional stories.

P.S., I think Love at first site, can it happen? would of been a better title. Too late now, though.

Edited by DragonMaci

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off, it's love at first sight. Sight is the sense of vision. A Site is a venue or location.

/grammar

Ahem, anyhow your feelings for someone before you truly know them are a hypothesis of sorts. And a hypothesis can be correct, so yes there is such a thing as love at first sight.

If you want a real life example of this, then I think the example of Ayn Rand and her husband is apropos. She fell in love with him at first sight. I don't have access to my reference material right now, but I'm sure someone can provide a quote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First off, it's love at first sight. Sight is the sense of vision. A Site is a venue or location.

Oh, yes, sorry. I should of payed more attention to I was typing. I actually do know better than o do that. However, i am sadly poor at paying attention to what i type unless I make more of an effort to do so.

Ahem, anyhow your feelings for someone before you truly know them are a hypothesis of sorts. And a hypothesis can be correct, so yes there is such a thing as love at first sight.

I would say that hypothesis is the potential for love, not actual love.

If you want a real life example of this, then I think the example of Ayn Rand and her husband is apropos. She fell in love with him at first sight. I don't have access to my reference material right now, but I'm sure someone can provide a quote.

Without more detail that doesn't really prove the point. However, even a hypothetical example will do, as long as it is not stylised the way the relationships in Ayn Rands books understandably were. After all, she was trying to entertain not write an essay. Obviously, the hypothetical example also needs to be realistic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I blogged about this a while back. The closest thing to love at first sight that I am aware of is the way my fiancee and I first met. See my blog posts Love at First Sight and Initial Sexual Attraction for more details. They're not long entries, so I'd be happy to post them here if you prefer.

--Dan Edge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First off, it's love at first sight. Sight is the sense of vision. A Site is a venue or location.

Actually, I'd say that love at first site is possible. Just percieving someone is probably not enough, but then it's all contextual. It's not like they emit value-rays which your brain can detect, however, let's say they're wearing an item of clothing which shows where their values lie (such as the fantastic (Science T-Shirt here) and that could be enough to spark a great initial interest.

But love at first site seems very possible. The first time you see someone, they might be doing something which astounds you and initially attracts you which gets you smitten for life (a cute girl with a tied-back pony-tail fixing a programming error for you, for example).

Edited by Tenure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I should of payed more attention to I was typing. I actually do know better than o do that. However, i am sadly poor at paying attention to what i type unless I make more of an effort to do so.
<grammar>Should have. More attention to what you were typing. Know better than to do that. However I am egregiously poor (or, if you didn't mean to use an adverb, then "am, sadly, poor at..." with commas to set off the interjection). To what I type...</grammar>And, uh, you should not take pride in your lack of attention. It suggests that you don't care what you say, that what you say is of so little importance that you can't be bothered to follow simple language conventions. Above all, don't introduce more errors in your corrections.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that hypothesis is the
potential
for love, not actual love.

Is the emotion qualitatively different? I think when people say they experience love at first sight, they mean that when they first met their significant other, they experienced the same emotional state that they do when they think about their s.o. now. In that sense, I think there can be such a thing as love at first sight; when you are using it to refer to an emotional state and not an, um, metaphysical? one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is the emotion qualitatively different? I think when people say they experience love at first sight, they mean that when they first met their significant other, they experienced the same emotional state that they do when they think about their s.o. now. In that sense, I think there can be such a thing as love at first sight; when you are using it to refer to an emotional state and not an, um, metaphysical? one.

I'm with Jen on this one. I think LaFS is another way of saying that the initial emotion you felt (whether you actually knew the other person well enough to base that emotion in fact) proved out to be fully justified in the long run.

I'm skeptical to think that you can communicate enough of your values via body language in one glance to cause another person to know that they're in love. Certainly you can communicate enough to know that you admire someone for that limited amount that they do communicate which can be the cause of that initial feeling and would certianly be valid.

To speak to your broader question of how fast it can happen. I think you have to look to the cause of valid (or "true" for you romantics) love. Love isn't something that magically "happens" to you. It has a cause. Can two people come together, evaluate each others value, and decide they are truly compatibe, all of this quickly. Sure I think so, but you both have to be someone who undrstands your own values very well, and can obtain information about and read anothers values well also. I don't think a lot of people qualify for that distinction, but certainly if they do, then it could happen quickly (months?) and be perfectly valid.

Edited by KendallJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[italics and spelling in original]

What are you doing? Is that a joke?

I was using clever word play to show how one can fall in love on the first instance of meeting someone, or in the first scenario where you saw them, but that the action of seeing them (sight) will not be enough for love.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't love someone at first sight. You can be extremely attracted to them in several ways, but love is way too important to feel so quickly. It needs a deep understanding of the other person's values. That doesn't happen immediately, but obviously it can happen at different rates (depending on the people).

I agree with Kendall and Jen. It is pretty easy to say you loved someone "at first sight." I mean, if any relationship ends up working out and you really liked the person when you started dating, then it can be deemed as "love at first sight." It's a strange thing to say, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was using clever word play to show how one can fall in love on the first instance of meeting someone, or in the first scenario where you saw them, but that the action of seeing them (sight) will not be enough for love.

Like you're in love before you leave the site where you met them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well why don't you wait for someone to find the quote before closing the case?

I never closed the case. I simply said that by itself it is not prove the point.

I blogged about this a while back. The closest thing to love at first sight that I am aware of is the way my fiancee and I first met. See my blog posts Love at First Sight and Initial Sexual Attraction for more details. They're not long entries, so I'd be happy to post them here if you prefer.

--Dan Edge

Thanks, I will read them tomorrow when I get the time (I am about to go to bed in a moment (it is nearly 11:00 pm and i have to get up at 6:00am tomorrow)).

DavidOdden, actually I have no idea how that "sadly" got in as I meant neither it or any other word. I meant simply, " I am poor at...." Furthermore, I did not not take pride in my lack of attention and I don't know how you got the idea I did. I was simply stating that it is the case, which is hardly pride. it is simply stating reality. In fact I am dissatisified with my lack of attention. I am never proud of things that I am dissatisifed with.

Is the emotion qualitatively different?

Um, what does that mean?

I think when people say they experience love at first sight, they mean that when they first met their significant other, they experienced the same emotional state that they do when they think about their s.o. now. In that sense, I think there can be such a thing as love at first sight; when you are using it to refer to an emotional state and not an, um, metaphysical? one.

I am extremely skeptical that anyone could possibly fall in love with someone at first sight, i.e., before they have talked.

Edited by DragonMaci

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think LaFS is another way of saying that the initial emotion you felt (whether you actually knew the other person well enough to base that emotion in fact) proved out to be fully justified in the long run.

What about when the emotion, whatever it is (I am not denying that there is an emotion, just that it is romantic love), is not jusitified. It is not related to who the person actually is, but is related to your values still. It is something you value in a people, so it is the same emotion, whether love or something else.

I'm skeptical to think that you can communicate enough of your values via body language in one glance to cause another person to know that they're in love. Certainly you can communicate enough to know that you admire someone for that limited amount that they do communicate which can be the cause of that initial feeling and would certianly be valid.

Admiration is what I would call it in all cases, not romantic love. I just don't think body labuage, eyes, etc. can communicate enough of a person's values for you to love them romatically at first sight.

To speak to your broader question of how fast it can happen. I think you have to look to the cause of valid (or "true" for you romantics) love. Love isn't something that magically "happens" to you. It has a cause.

Yes, I am quite aware of that. In fact that is why I am extremely skeptical about the idea of love at first sight.

Can two people come together, evaluate each others value, and decide they are truly compatibe, all of this quickly. Sure I think so, but you both have to be someone who undrstands your own values very well, and can obtain information about and read anothers values well also. I don't think a lot of people qualify for that distinction, but certainly if they do, then it could happen quickly (months?) and be perfectly valid.

Yes, I agree that it can happen quickly, I just don't think it can happen at first sight. I also agree that quick can only happen to those that understand their own values. Two of the characters in the book I am writing fall in love after only a week of knowing each other, but they both fully understand their values, and even that is taking artistic licence as far as I am concerned.

I was using clever word play to show how one can fall in love on the first instance of meeting someone, or in the first scenario where you saw them, but that the action of seeing them (sight) will not be enough for love.

I don't think that love at first scenario is possible. As I said above, I think even the week of my two book characters is case of artistic licence.

You can't love someone at first sight. You can be extremely attracted to them in several ways, but love is way too important to feel so quickly. It needs a deep understanding of the other person's values. That doesn't happen immediately, but obviously it can happen at different rates (depending on the people).

Finally someone that agrees with me!

I agree with Kendall and Jen. It is pretty easy to say you loved someone "at first sight." I mean, if any relationship ends up working out and you really liked the person when you started dating, then it can be deemed as "love at first sight."

How could it accurately be deemed "love at first sight" if you can't love someone at first sight?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I never closed the case. I simply said that by itself it is not prove the point.

You said "without more detail" it does not prove the point. That's just confusing since the quote hasn't actually been provided. How can it prove anything if it isn't actually here? It's kind of pointless to respond that the point hasn't been proven if it hasn't actually even been attempted yet. (which it wasn't as of that response) That's what I meant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You said "without more detail" it does not prove the point. That's just confusing since the quote hasn't actually been provided. How can it prove anything if it isn't actually here? It's kind of pointless to respond that the point hasn't been proven if it hasn't actually even been attempted yet. (which it wasn't as of that response) That's what I meant.

By "it" I meant the example given, not the exact quote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Either way, my point remains valid.

I was respinding to the example of Rand and her husband that was actually said, so no it was not as I was responding to something that was actually said not something that was not said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Without more detail that doesn't really prove the point. However, even a hypothetical example will do, as long as it is not stylised the way the relationships in Ayn Rands books understandably were. After all, she was trying to entertain not write an essay. Obviously, the hypothetical example also needs to be realistic.

This is how I've heard Ayn Rand's meeting Frank O'Conner described many times (one reference would be the documentary Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life).. As I remember it, she was on a bus, shortly after coming to America. She was on her way to the DeMille studios. She was working on the set of Cicile B DeMille's movie, The King of Kings. She saw a man get on the bus, and immediately she thought that he looked like her ideal man. To her astonishment, he got off at the same exit as her. To her further astonishment, she realized that he was going to the DeMille studio too--he was in the cast of The King of Kings. Already smitten, she decided that she had to meet him. So when he was filming his scenes (in which she was an extra) she memorized his steps. On the next take, she deliberately stood in his way so that he would trip over her. He apologized, and they started talking. After the filming was over, she hadn't gotten his number yet, and was afraid she'd never see him again. Sometime later (a few weeks I think) she was supposed to have an appointment with someone in Hollywood, and she got there early, so she decided to stop into the library while she waited. In the library, she saw Frank O'Conner, reading a book. So she approached him and that's when their courtship officially began.

I think the primary reason that love at first *sight* (sorry) is possible, is because a person carries his sense of life with him all the time, and sense of life is what someone primarily falls in love with.

A given person's sense of life is hard to identify conceptually, because it is hard to isolate: it is involved in everything about that person, in his every thought, emotion, action, in his every response, in his every choice and value, in his every spontaneous gesture, in his way of "coming at things," in his manner of moving, talking, smiling, in the total of his personality. It is that which makes him a "personality. "Introspectively, one's own sense of life is experienced as an absolute and an irreducible primary—as that which one never questions, because the thought of questioning it never arises. Extrospectively, the sense of life of another person strikes one as an immediate, yet undefinable, impression—on very short acquaintance—an impression which often feels like certainty, yet is exasperatingly elusive, if one attempts to verify it.

One falls in love with the embodiment of the values that formed a person's character, which are reflected in his widest goals or smallest gestures, which create the style of his soul—the individual style of a unique, unrepeatable, irreplaceable consciousness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is how I've heard Ayn Rand's meeting Frank O'Conner described many times (one reference would be the documentary Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life).. As I remember it, she was on a bus, shortly after coming to America. She was on her way to the DeMille studios. She was working on the set of Cicile B DeMille's movie, The King of Kings. She saw a man get on the bus, and immediately she thought that he looked like her ideal man. To her astonishment, he got off at the same exit as her. To her further astonishment, she realized that he was going to the DeMille studio too--he was in the cast of The King of Kings. Already smitten, she decided that she had to meet him.

I would not call being smitten "love at first sight". I would call it "smitten at first sight" or "admitation at first sight".

I think the primary reason that love at first *sight* (sorry) is possible, is because a person carries his sense of life with him all the time, and sense of life is what someone primarily falls in love with.

Yes, but how much of that can one really see in the way someone walks and holds their body?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...