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nemethnm

Anarchism & Democracy

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In my studies of economics/political philosophy I have found that there are two types of Socialism. The first is "de facto" Socialism which is also know as "Socialism on the Nazi pattern." This is where the government still upholds "ownership" of property, however the government dictates the use of property thus rendering the idea of ownership a thinly vailed lie. The government is thus the de facto owner. The second is "de juere" Socialism which is also know as "Socialism on the Bolshevik pattern." This is where the government owns all property in law or de juere.

It came to me recently that Anarchism and Democracy are similar to the two types of Socialism in that one is de facto mob-rule while the other is de juere mob-rule.

In an anarchy the majority gains control through a "might makes right" type affair of tribal warfare, but in the end the majority will gain control. In a democracy the majority gains control through out-voting the minority, but in the end the majority gains control. The difference between the two is that in an anarchy the majority has come to be the de facto ruler where as in a democracy the majority has come to be the de juere ruler.

Side Note: I use the word "Democracy" to refer to the political theory. I use the word "democracy" to refer to a specific instance of the theory. This difference is the same as the difference between "Anarchism" and "anarchy."

Further, these are my own ideas and thinking and I'm just tossing it out here to see what others think of my ideas. :)

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In an anarchy the majority gains control through a "might makes right" type affair of tribal warfare, but in the end the majority will gain control.

If you are looking for comments, I would suggest re-examining the idea that anarchy involves majority control necessarily.

First, the essential characteristic of anarchy is continuing warfare among various groups in a given territory. If one gang gains control of a certain area and sets oppressive rules, then anarchy gives way to statism.

Also, you might question the idea that when one gang does gain control that it necessarily will be the majority. The gang that gains control -- as in Rwanda -- may be a minority dominating a majority.

P. S. -- Shouldn't the spelling of de jeure be de jure -- a prepositional phrase meaning "by law," as I think you know? (The Latin word is ius, iuris -- to which (among others) our words "justice" and "jurist" are related.)

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Yes, democracy is the rule of the majority.

Luckily for us our founders recognized that men have certain rights that are "unalienable" which no majority can ever vote out of existence.

Thank goodness for our founders and a Constitutional Republic.

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Hmm... Yes, I see how in anarchy a majority could be under the control of a minority. Maybe I just haven’t picked out the essentials of the matter properly.

At first it seemed that they were opposite sides of a mind/body dichotomy, which I'm still thinking about, but I might have been trying to push the idea too far. I see Democracy as taking the side of the "mind" and Anarchy taking the side of the "body."

ps Thank you for the spelling correction.

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Well, Im not sure that anarchy necessarily equates to any type of warfare. Thats the equivalent of someone saying that government automatically equates to warfare. There has never existed a government that hasnt had some war on its grounds.

I think far too many conclusions are drawn, than can be drawn.

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Well, Im not sure that anarchy necessarily equates to any type of warfare. Thats the equivalent of someone saying that government automatically equates to warfare.

Nimble, in another thread I asked you for examples of anarchic societies. So far as I know, you didn't answer. So I will repeat the question:

What are examples of anarchic societies?

Or is "anarchy" a "naive floating abstraction," as Ayn Rand observed? (Ayn Rand Lexicon, p. 20, citing Virtue of Selfishness, p. 152 hb, 112 pb)

And when you say "government," what do you mean? What is your definition of government?

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nemethnm - what preciselu do you mean by Democracy? 'Pure' democracy, in a 'the majority gets whatever it wants' sense, or a more limited democracy, such as one where the majority are constrained by (eg) constitutional means?

First, the essential characteristic of anarchy is continuing warfare among various groups in a given territory. If one gang gains control of a certain area and sets oppressive rules, then anarchy gives way to statism.
I think that this is a very important point, and one that needs to be emphasized. Anarcho-capitalism as a whole is largely based upon delusions caused by language, and the failure to adequately define key terms. The majority of anarchists don't seem to realise that when one 'private protection agency' has taken control of a territory, it is a government in everything but name. Choosing to call something a 'protection agency' rather than a 'government' does not affect the reality of what it is - if a group claims a monopoly on force over a given region and has the power to back it up, then it is a government by definition of the word. The only way 'anarchy' could actually exist other than as continuing warfare would be if several different competing protection agencies could simultaneously co-exist within a given region, and I think that Robert Nozick, amongst others, has conclusively disproven the suggestion that this is possible.

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First off, I would like to state for the record that I am not for anarchy in any form.

I use the term democracy to mean only the political philosophy of, as you put it, "pure" democracy. This actually brings up a good point that I'd like to make.

I am actually tired of people using the word to mean any government that has instituted democratic principles. I think that the widespread and rampant use of such a loose terminology is the effect of a successful smear campaign. In the US we live not in a democracy but in a republic. Yes, a republic does institute democratic principles (such as electing certain men to run the government) but it is not a democracy. This smear has lead to ideas common place ideas such as "if a majority doesn't support our government then it no longer has any sovreignty."

That off my chest, thank you Hal for those observations about anarchy. I had not thought about it like that before. Now I see that anarchy isn't like a democracy because a democracy is still a government while an anarchy is truly the lack of any government at all.

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Hal, who is Robert Nozick and where did he disprove that such a suggestion is impossible?

A libertarian political philosopher. He wrote Anarchy, State and Utopia, a fairly comprehensive defence of lassaiz-faire capitalism which includes a few chapters attacking anarcho-capitalism.

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Hal, who is Robert Nozick and where did he disprove that such a suggestion is impossible?

He is a harvard philosopher (minimal statist) who wrote anarchy, state and utopia. Brilliant man.

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Nimble, in another thread I asked you for examples of anarchic societies. So far as I know, you didn't answer. So I will repeat the question:

What are examples of anarchic societies?

Or is "anarchy" a "naive floating abstraction," as Ayn Rand observed? (Ayn Rand Lexicon, p. 20, citing Virtue of Selfishness, p. 152 hb, 112 pb)

And when you say "government," what do you mean? What is your definition of government?

I am not defending anarchy, so I dont know why you ask me to cite examples of anarchy. However, Iceland, Merchant european ports, somolia, and any scarcely inhabited area serves as an anarchy.

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