Captain Nate Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 We aren't seeking to counter liberalism: Objectivists seek to counter irrationalism, altruism, and collectivism, ideas embraced by liberals and conservatives alike. If you think that Sean Hannity is anything but pure poison, I suggest you read Ayn Rand's speech, "The Age of Mediocrity." Don Watkins Like I said, I didn't get that from Hannity. From Hannity I learned to appreciate individualism, capitalism, and freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPW Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Like I said, I didn't get that from Hannity. From Hannity I learned to appreciate individualism, capitalism, and freedom. No, you didn't, since those things are and can only be a consequence of reason. Don Watkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Nate Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 No, you didn't, since those things are and can only be a consequence of reason. Don Watkins Sometimes someone needs some guidance to finding and using their reason after ignoring it for so long. Ayn Rand's writing provides that, as did Sean Hannity's message. Sorry that you don't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RationalEgoist Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 How about that Matthew Lesko guy who wears the Riddler suit and peddles his book on how to cash-in on all the "free money" from government programs? Not the MOST wanted, but a bastard, anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus98876 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 How about that Matthew Lesko guy who wears the Riddler suit and peddles his book on how to cash-in on all the "free money" from government programs? Not the MOST wanted, but a bastard, anyhow. I am not actually familiar with this person (being a Kiwi), perhaps someone could 'remind' me who he is. I would have to say, based on what you say about him, that he would have to be one of the most vile people I have heard about for some time. I am imagining him as a fat leech dressed in that Riddler suit, but then again I guess that is accurate in a sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 The government programs he talks about cashing in on are not welfare and the like. It's for things like grants. I don't know anything about the guy, apart from what I saw on his commercials a few years back, but I don't remember there being anything particularly objectionable in the commercials. Ayn Rand herself says there is nothing wrong with accepting money from government grants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RationalEgoist Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Ayn Rand herself says there is nothing wrong with accepting money from government grants. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That doesn't jibe. Government has no purpose taking an individual's money to divvy it out to anyone, whether the method is a welfare check or a grant. Please show me where she said such a thing, because I don't believe it. I could see her being ok with a private scholarship, but not a government subsidy such as this. Even if she did say this, which I doubt, I don't see it being consistent with the principles of rational egoism, whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RationalEgoist Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I am not actually familiar with this person (being a Kiwi), perhaps someone could 'remind' me who he is. Here Prometheus, check this link... You'll see what I mean: http://www.lesko.com/starpaybills114/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaloNoble6 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 That doesn't jibe. Government has no purpose taking an individual's money to divvy it out to anyone, whether the method is a welfare check or a grant. Please show me where she said such a thing, because I don't believe it. I could see her being ok with a private scholarship, but not a government subsidy such as this. Even if she did say this, which I doubt, I don't see it being consistent with the principles of rational egoism, whatsoever. I think you are dropping the necessary context that would reveal the rationale behind her advocacy of accepting government grants. An analogy will help: Suppose you lived in a society where your blood was forcefully taken from you on a consistent basis, stored somewhere in some government building. Suppose further, that one day, the government was having a "blood hand out day," where they'd be giving back blood of all types, including yours. Would you turn the blood down simply because you don't believe in accepting blood from the government? In other words, the government constantly takes money from us, why not take a little back when it offers it to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RationalEgoist Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I just went to the Matthew Lesko page and wrote to the company through the "contact us" page. Anyone want to join me in telling them what they are? They deserve to know. Here's what I wrote: "It is a sad day when such leaches and parasites, and teachers of the same, glorify this kind of thing. As you know, millions of hardworking individuals (the creators of wealth) have the products of their mind and their labor stolen from them by our government for people such as you to multiply the problem. You do not help anyone, but rather, hinder the whole, creating a demand for yet more government taxation and waste. Those programs are not free. Nothing government does is free. Someone has to work to create the money that you teach others to take. Those who did not earn it and feel absolved of all guilt simply because there is a "middle man" called the United States Government. What difference is there from hiring a thief to do your dirty work? You are scoundrels. You just choose not to see it for what it is." Antony Marcus Reed I hope they email me a reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Lesko's would hardly qualify as most wanted. For some real "competition" see this previous thread (link). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 That doesn't jibe. Government has no purpose taking an individual's money to divvy it out to anyone, whether the method is a welfare check or a grant. Please show me where she said such a thing, because I don't believe it. I could see her being ok with a private scholarship, but not a government subsidy such as this. Even if she did say this, which I doubt, I don't see it being consistent with the principles of rational egoism, whatsoever. It's an essay in Voice of Reason dedicated specifically to the topic of government grants and scholarships. And this isn't one of those things open to interpretation, because she comes out and specifically says "Yes!" complete with the exlamation point, if I'm not mistaken. I don't remember the name of the article, but I'll look it up and give you an exact quote when I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbaoth Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Moose: I also believe I heard Rand say a similar thing in one of her audio lectures, can't for the life of me remember which one. It was basically along the lines of not agreeing with the governments taxing citizens, but in such a society it is acceptable for a rational individual to accept there money back from a government that takes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPW Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 It's an essay in Voice of Reason dedicated specifically to the topic of government grants and scholarships. And this isn't one of those things open to interpretation, because she comes out and specifically says "Yes!" complete with the exlamation point, if I'm not mistaken. I don't remember the name of the article, but I'll look it up and give you an exact quote when I get home. "The Question of Scholarships." Her point is that you have every right to pursue grants from the government so long as you advocate against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 How about any prominent Socialist writer in your respective country? I recommend Jimmy Reid and William McIlvanney from Scotland. Jimmy Reid is a 70 something trade unionist who still writes revolutionary marxist columns to this day. William McIlvanney writes along the lines of " What a terrible, terrible society we are and the rubbish I have written since Winston Churchill was in power has nothing to do with it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RationalEgoist Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) Moose, Felipe, Cbaoth & DPW... Thank you for your responses. Before I made my reply, I wanted to give the issue a good deal of thought and study. In doing so, I have read a number of arguments pertaining to this issue and did quite a bit of introspection as to the moral implications. I have to concede. In asking myself whether it would be moral for me to take my money back from a thief who is handing it back to me, I had to answer yes. Just because the thief has stolen my money does not transfer the ownership, so I still have the right to it. It is the initial theft that is wrong and must be fought. I see this now. I thank you all for showing me this error. [Fixed spelling of my name. -f] Edited July 20, 2005 by Felipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I've posted on a number of political/philosophical forums in recent years, and I can honestly say that Objectivists/students of Objectivism are the only people who make concessions like the one above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rearden_Steel Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I just wanted to mention two of the most despicable bands in the US today: "System of A Down" and "Rage Against the Machine". Both bands are wildly popular with the youth and promote Multiculturalism, Environmentalism, and Socialism. These bands that proclaim that capitalism, industry and western culture are evil and scream out lyrics like “Science has failed our world”. What bothers me most is a lot of people like the music and all the flash and they adopt these ideas as their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I like the music, but hate the lyrics. Rage Against the Machine doesn't exist anymore, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rearden_Steel Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Rage Against the Machine doesn't exist anymore, by the way. Yea, I thought I heard they are not together anymore. They've crumbled like the Soviet Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suedehead Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Those Che Guevara shirts that RATM popularized really piss me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Those Che Guevara shirts that RATM popularized really piss me off. So get one of those with an X through it that says "Commies aren't cool." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) I think the fact that Che Guevara's face has been ironically commercialized has soothed any annoyance that I may have gotten from it. "Baby Che" Edited July 20, 2005 by Cole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm going to have to second Moose's sentiment: Kudos to you RationalEgoist! It takes a person of character to make a post like that. Now, where were we? Ah, yes! Despicable people... How about Noam Chomsky, Hillary Clinton, and Billy Graham? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 We should counter the Che t-shirt movement by wearing Ayn Rand t-shirts. At least the commercialism actually agrees with her politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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