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The bad guy won. The fight continues.

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Yeah but a bad guy would have won either way. As far as tea party goes, whatever their merits may have been when the movement started, it seems like they have been coopted by the Republican party and the nationalistic religious right. The only chance at supporting liberty in the GOP, the Ron Paul movement, was opposed by the "official" tea party spokesmen.

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Equivocating between a religious fascist and a mixed economy secularist is disgusting 2046. And Darrell, you are truly lost.

I think you've made your lack of objectivity very clear by referring to Obama as an advocate of a mixed economy while calling Romney a fascist.
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I think you've made your lack of objectivity very clear by referring to Obama as an advocate of a mixed economy while calling Romney a fascist.
We need some better terms. Saying someone is an advocate of a mixed economy says very little. Perhaps he wants a wee bit of government control... or perhaps he wants to be a wee step away from socialism. Welfare-statist may be slightly better, because it hints at a direction rather than at range.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Time for you to get active in the Tea Party, http://www.teapartypatriots.org/local/, to write articles, to talk to people, to do all you can, so that in 2016, we have the good guy win.

Fight hard.

Darrell Cody

As much as I would like to see a good guy win for a change, there simply aren't enough Americans in America to elect one. The person who was elected accurately represents the values the political majority live by. The Tea Party Patriots has a flaw. There are almost no young people in it, because it offers nothing to them. And there is no prospect of limited government, fiscal responsibility, and free capitalist markets ever appealing to young folks living off of their parents and attending government subsidized Marxist medrasas on government student loans.

Political groups are generally motivated by moral outrage. If four more years like the last four doesn't generate enough to wake people up, nothing will. By the way, I'm an active participant in our local Tea Party Patriots group.

Greg

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As much as I would like to see a good guy win for a change, there simply aren't enough Americans in America to elect one.

If by a good guy you mean someone who opposes socialized education (I'm guessing that's what you mean by "government madrassas"), subsidies for student loans and supports free markets, why didn't the Tea Party you're advocating for support such a candidate?

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If by a good guy you mean someone who opposes socialized education (I'm guessing that's what you mean by "government madrassas"), subsidies for student loans and supports free markets, why didn't the Tea Party you're advocating for support such a candidate?

All of the candidates we supported lost, because there simply aren't enough Americans in America to elect them.

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I asked the same question... and found my answer in the experience of waving an American flag.
The flag itself is a piece of cloth until you give it meaning, and give meaning and purpose to the act of waving it. So, what does the tea-party give you in that way?
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All of the candidates we supported lost, because there simply aren't enough Americans in America to elect them.

I don't know what that means. Americans are the people living in America. Obama is an American.

My question was, why didn't you guys support a good guy instead of Romney (who is in favor of the things you seem to hate, like socialized education and subsidized student loans)?

I asked the same question... and found my answer in the experience of waving an American flag.

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I really hope this is an attempt to mock the Tea Party. If it is, then bravo, it's pretty funny. Stephen Colbert would be proud. If it's not, then that's not good, because you're living up to the mockery.

Edited by Nicky
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The flag itself is a piece of cloth until you give it meaning, and give meaning and purpose to the act of waving it.

Yes... And I understand how childish and unsophisticated just waving a flag sounds, but I was totally suprized how such a simple real world experience could be so personally satisfying and inspiring to see other happy Americans honking their horns and waving back. It just feels good to do something affirmative and positive.

So, what does the tea-party give you in that way?

The Tea Party provides the public setting in which to wave the flag.

Edited by moralist
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Yes... And I understand how childish and unsophisticated just waving a flag sounds, but I was totally suprized how such a simple real world experience could be so personally satisfying and inspiring to see other happy Americans honking their horns and waving back. It just feels good to do something affirmative and positive.

Yes, OK. Nothing wrong with that. But you've done that already, and now it's over. Now you're at home, posting in a forum thread about the election results.

Now it's time to try to expand a little on "waving the American flag feels good".

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Yes... And I understand how childish and unsophisticated just waving a flag sounds, but I was totally suprized how such a simple real world experience could be so personally satisfying and inspiring to see other happy Americans honking their horns and waving back. It just feels good to do something affirmative and positive.
I don't think it is childish of unsophisticated. The waving of a flag is a physical, concrete act: it is you who give it meaning. If -- to you -- waving the flag means individual liberty, then how can supporting individual liberty be unsophisticated and childish.

On the other hand, imagine someone waving the flag beside you shouts something like "One nation under God! Keep the Mexicans out of our country." surely you would feel your empathy and affirmation disappear. Yet, that other person too could not be characterized as being unsophisticated or childish, on that basis.

I'm not saying your fellow tea-partiers feel that way. It sounds like you think they genuinely support individual liberty. It sounds like you're saying that you feel good being in the company of people who support individual liberty. Expressing that view with others who believe like you do is a positive thing: it is the essence of friendship and visibility. So, is that the main reason you are in the tea-party movement?

Are there secondary reasons for your membership: for instance -- do you think the movement will have an impact outside of that set of freedom-lovers?

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I don't know what that means. Americans are the people living in America. .

Well, that is where we differ in our views. As I see it, simply living in America does not make anyone an American. Living by American values is what makes people Americans.

Obama is an American.

Obama does not live by American values.

My question was, why didn't you guys support a good guy instead of Romney (who is in favor of the things you seem to hate, like socialized education and subsidized student loans)?

You raised an excellent point. There is no such thing as an ideologically pure candidate. And things with which I don't agree like government education and government student loans (which by the way just crossed the one trillion dollar mark eclipsing the total credit card debt of this nation) others need and want. The political majority wants others to pay their bills, so they create the the government they deserve in their own image.

I really hope this is an attempt to mock the Tea Party. If it is, then bravo, it's pretty funny. Stephen Colbert would be proud. If it's not, then that's not good, because you're living up to the mockery.

Stephen Colbert is likely a television personality, but since we don't have a broadcast connection I haven't seen him. And I'm ok with being mocked, and have had more than a few people driving by flip us off. That's just goes along with living in this world.

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On the other hand, imagine someone waving the flag beside you shouts something like "One nation under God! Keep the Mexicans out of our country." surely you would feel your empathy and affirmation disappear.

But imagining isn't reality. No one I know has ever done that.

I'm not saying your fellow tea-partiers feel that way.

Then there is no need to imagine they do.

It sounds like you think they genuinely support individual liberty.

The only way anyone can genuinely support individual liberty is by how they live their life. I can only aspire to live by the ideals which I personally hold as being worthy. No group is homogenous, nor can any group ever be ideologically pure. So I choose whatever group is closest to my values and participate with the tacit understanding that no group perfectly represents the values by which I live.

It sounds like you're saying that you feel good being in the company of people who support individual liberty. Expressing that view with others who believe like you do is a positive thing: it is the essence of friendship and visibility. So, is that the main reason you are in the tea-party movement?

Yes. Humans are social creatures who enjoy the company of others who share their values.

Are there secondary reasons for your membership: for instance -- do you think the movement will have an impact outside of that set of freedom-lovers?

No. Every adult has already chosen their view... and short of a genuine life threatening or life altering event, they will take what they chose and all of its just and deserved consequences with them to their grave.

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But imagining isn't reality. No one I know has ever done that.
Sounds like the paricular tea-party group you belong to is good, if you don't have the religious nut-jobs who are influential in some other groups.

No. Every adult has already chosen their view... and short of a genuine life threatening or life altering event, they will take what they chose and all of its just and deserved consequences with them to their grave.
Okay, so you're looking for fellowship and not political action.

Thanks for answering the series of posts. I was curious why someone would want to join a tea-party group, and I now understand your reason.

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Sounds like the paricular tea-party group you belong to is good, if you don't have the religious nut-jobs who are influential in some other groups.

Many of our members live by religious moral values as I do, but they understand that the American ideal is a secular government which serves those moral values, because the American form of government only works for decent people. You can accurately track the growth of government with peoples' own failure to govern themselves.

Okay, so you're looking for fellowship and not political action.

Could you offer some examples to clarify what you mean by political action? Activism is usually more identified with the left, as they have so much more of their lives dependently invested in what the government does.

Thanks for answering the series of posts. I was curious why someone would want to join a tea-party group, and I now understand your reason.

Glad to share. My relatively frivolous reason for participating in the Tea Party isn't the same reason as others, it's just for me. Because by adopting the business principles described in Atlas Shrugged I learned how to consistently prosper and to live a happy productive life regardless of economic and political cycles.

Edited by moralist
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Could you offer some examples to clarify what you mean by political action?
Activism is anything that seeks to help change the minds of those outside the group of activists. It is really is possible to do this to a degree. However, you said that it could not be done. Hence my assumption that this was not part of your reason for being a tea-partier.

A PEW survey shows that people who identify themselves as "tea-partiers" are more opposed to abortion, immigration and gay marriage than the average American voter. I know many tea-party organizers try to distance themselves from the views of the members, but that cannot be done convincingly.

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I also asked a question. Who's this "good guy" America refused to vote for, and what criteria are you using to determine that he's a good guy.

Are you addressing someone else even though you quoted me? For I don't believe I referred to any "good guy that America refused to vote for. In fact I had said that there is no such thing as an ideologically pure candidate. And the political majority demanded that other people pay their bills, so they voted to create a government that makes others pay their bills.

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