CrowEpistemologist Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/goldman-gold-going-1200-172200795.html Looks like Goldman is pulling the plug on the gold bubble. Time to sell your gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 They're predicting this for 2018! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grames Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Are you familiar with the term "muppet" as applied by Goldman-Sachs employees to their own customers? Why I Am Leaving Goldman-Sachs The application here would be that GS are advising their muppets to sell their gold and related holdings, and GS would be happy to perform that service for them. Of course GS would keep the gold and gold-related investments while making commissions on selling inferior investments as replacements. dream_weaver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 The ounce of gold started out at 35 bucks, in '69. Barring minor fluctuations, it's been steadily rising ever since. Now it's at what, 1700? Add to that the fact that the only thing that causes the price of gold to drop is fiscal stability, and that's enough to trust that, even if the price goes down temporarily, gold is going to continue to be a safe investment in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Oh, by the way: January 2011: Goldman forecasts a top in gold prices of around $1,750 an ounce, perhaps by the end of 2011. By September, the yellow metal had reached a high of just under $1,900 an ounce. November 2011: Having changed its tune to bullish, Goldman suddenly predicts a major push in gold prices. The bank upped its 12-month gold target to $1,930 an ounce. The price has been more or less flat since. May 2012: Goldman predicts that gold will advance to $1,840 an ounce within six months. At the time, gold had reached a 12-month bottom of less than $1,550 an ounce. While gold did advance over the ensuing six months, by early November it was below $1,700 – having never really flirted with the $1,800 mark. http://finance.yahoo...-183109573.html I'm too lazy to look, but as you go back in time with these forecasts, you'll find that they're even worse off than these ones I listed. Before 2009, for instance, I doubt any major institution predicted gold prices to spend time above $1000. Edited January 18, 2013 by Nicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowEpistemologist Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Goldman people did the analysis, and came to a conclusion. Then they sold like crazy. A few weeks later, they let the muppets know so they can profit a little too :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 The ounce of gold started out at 35 bucks, in '69. Barring minor fluctuations, it's been steadily rising ever since. Now it's at what, 1700? Add to that the fact that the only thing that causes the price of gold to drop is fiscal stability, and that's enough to trust that, even if the price goes down temporarily, gold is going to continue to be a safe investment in the long term. I don't regard gold as an investment as it does not actually "make" any money. However, I do see it as being a safe alternative to government controlled paper currency as a store of wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Goldman people did the analysis, and came to a conclusion. Then they sold like crazy. A few weeks later, they let the muppets know so they can profit a little too :-). muppets = suckers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowEpistemologist Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I don't regard gold as an investment as it does not actually "make" any money. However, I do see it as being a safe alternative to government controlled paper currency as a store of wealth. If you are afraid of the dollar collapsing (provincial as such a notion might be), then maybe invest in something... else that isn't going to lose 30% of its value? As for Goldman and their muppets, this is capitalism (the law of comparative advantage of sorts) in action. The Goldman folks do make money for their clients. They just make sure they make more money for themselves first :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) If you are afraid of the dollar collapsing (provincial as such a notion might be), I'm not afraid because I don't use paper currency as a store of value. However, my choice doesn't prevent you from using Federal Reserve Notes to store yours. What I do does not interfere with your freedom to do whatever you want. then maybe invest in something... else that isn't going to lose 30% of its value? I'm not concerned with short term fluctuations as I'm up way over 100%, which does not reflect the rising value of gold but rather the loss of value of the dollar. And just to repeat as the coment went unnoticed: I don't regard gold as an investment. It's just prudent protection against the actions of the Federal Reserve. You put far more trust in the central banks than I do. And that's fine with me, as each of us gets what they deserve as the consequences of our own actions. As for Goldman and their muppets, this is capitalism (the law of comparative advantage of sorts) in action. Zero sum gambling with borrowed money in a casino has nothing to do with Capitalism. The Goldman folks do make money for their clients. They just make sure they make more money for themselves first :-). That's an illusion. In truth they make nothing, because their gain can only come from someone else's loss. This is what I mean by zero sum gambling. Booking bets is different from legitimate businesses which actually produce useful goods and services. That's where wealth is truly created, so that is where I am fully invested. I have zero investments in the debt based economy, because that's not Capitalism. Edited January 19, 2013 by moralist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowEpistemologist Posted January 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I have zero investments in the debt based economy, because that's not Capitalism. So you have all of your life savings hidden in a safe? Don't quit your day job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream_weaver Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) The fluctuations of those precious metal prices can be used to offset the storage costs and even increase ones underlying position in that market. Edited January 19, 2013 by dream_weaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruveyn1 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 , I'm not afraid because I don't use paper currency as a store of value. However, my choice doesn't prevent you from using Federal Reserve Notes to store yours. What I do does not interfere with your freedom to do whatever you want. I'm not concerned with short term fluctuations as I'm up way over 100%, which does not reflect the rising value of gold but rather the loss of value of the dollar. And just to repeat as the coment went unnoticed: I don't regard gold as an investment. It's just prudent protection against the actions of the Federal Reserve. You put far more trust in the central banks than I do. And that's fine with me, as each of us gets what they deserve as the consequences of our own actions. Zero sum gambling with borrowed money in a casino has nothing to do with Capitalism. That's an illusion. In truth they make nothing, because their gain can only come from someone else's loss. This is what I mean by zero sum gambling. Booking bets is different from legitimate businesses which actually produce useful goods and services. That's where wealth is truly created, so that is where I am fully invested. I have zero investments in the debt based economy, because that's not Capitalism. When their clients win the Grand Casino, Goldman takes its cuit. Also when their clients loose in the Grand Casino, Goldman takes a cut anyway. Finance people are like those who run the gambling places in Lost Wages Nevada. They always get a cut so they almost always never lose. ruveyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowEpistemologist Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) People harboring irrational terror and prejudice over things they don't understand... on an Objectivist forum... How truly, truly depressing... So yeah... buy gold you guys! Buy as much as you can! Those people at Goldman are wrong! They just make mountains and mountains money because they are, um... idiots who don't understand financial markets! Mortgage your home! Sell that Camaro you have on the front lawn on blocks! Use the money to buy gold. Buy buy buy! Just like every commercial on Fox News says you should. Don't question their premises--you are the financial expert, not the so-called "financial experts" who live in those fancy houses and drive those fancy jet airplanes. The End is Near. Armageddon is upon us! Jesus will return and you will all suffer the rapture, and as we know Jesus will only accept metal-based commodities as payment, As It Is Written. Prepare for a time when there is no stock market, no financial system, and no banks, and no (gasp!) fractional reserve banking system! Prepare for the time--imminent!--when we digress progress to an "enlightened state" were we have the the financial system of the 19th 14th 3rd Century! We'll start bartering blankets in exchange for corn meal. Forget about the global financial system necessary to build a the device you make these Internet postings on--it's all a fraud! It doesn't actually exist! *** Okay I feel better now. Well a little better. I'm still depressed... Edited January 20, 2013 by CrowEpistemologist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 People harboring irrational terror and prejudice over things they don't understand... on an Objectivist forum... How truly, truly depressing... Your constant trolling and the absence of anything of value or even remotely intelligent added to the forum...eliciting very little emotion. Your false sense of superiority while doing it...pretty amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrowEpistemologist Posted January 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Fuck You, Nicky. Buy gold, Nicky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenelli01 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Mortgage your home! Sell that Camaro you have on the front lawn on blocks! Use the money to buy gold. Buy buy buy! Just like every commercial on Fox News says you should. Don't question their premises--you are the financial expert, not the so-called "financial experts" who live in those fancy houses and drive those fancy jet airplanes. The End is Near. Armageddon is upon us! Jesus will return and you will all suffer the rapture, and as we know Jesus will only accept metal-based commodities as payment, As It Is Written. Prepare for a time when there is no stock market, no financial system, and no banks, and no (gasp!) fractional reserve banking system! Prepare for the time--imminent!--when we digress progress to an "enlightened state" were we have the the financial system of the 19th 14th 3rd Century! We'll start bartering blankets in exchange for corn meal. Forget about the global financial system necessary to build a the device you make these Internet postings on--it's all a fraud! It doesn't actually exist! I think you watch too much Jon Stewart. Don't get me wrong, he can be funny at times (I prefer Colbert) but he isn't very intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 So you have all of your life savings hidden in a safe? Don't quit your day job. No. My life savings are right out in the open, 100% debt free solvent... business, land, homes, vehicles, tools, clothes, and food. And what quality do they all have in common? They are all capital... because I am a Capitalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 When their clients win the Grand Casino, Goldman takes its cuit. Also when their clients loose in the Grand Casino, Goldman takes a cut anyway. Finance people are like those who run the gambling places in Lost Wages Nevada. They always get a cut so they almost always never lose. ruveyn You've just let out their secret... and the only real solution to that situation is not to gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruveyn1 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 You've just let out their secret... and the only real solution to that situation is not to gamble. You don't say. I like your advice. ruveyn1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream_weaver Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Buy gold, Nicky! At this point in the gold/silver ratio, wouldn't silver be the favored horse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream_weaver Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 No. My life savings are right out in the open, 100% debt free solvent... business, land, homes, vehicles, tools, clothes, and food. And what quality do they all have in common? They are all capital... because I am a Capitalist. Aside from personally not viewing the financial markets as the "Grand Casino", and debt free is a fine way to be (been there, done that), are you of the mindset that debt serves no practical value? For instance, if an institution is willing to give me financing on collateralized capital at just over 4% and I can command a return of greater than 5% elsewhere, do you think it prudent to pay off the financing or seek the greater returns via the financial markets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Aside from personally not viewing the financial markets as the "Grand Casino", and debt free is a fine way to be (been there, done that), I'm always there... and will always do that. are you of the mindset that debt serves no practical value? Yes. But debt only has no practical value to me. Everyone else is free to decide for themselves because they are the ones who reap the results, not me. I'm happy to harvest the consequences of my own actions. For instance, if an institution is willing to give me financing on collateralized capital at just over 4% and I can command a return of greater than 5% elsewhere, do you think it prudent to pay off the financing or seek the greater returns via the financial markets? That's your own free choice. So if you think 1% minus taxes is worth it, then go for it. My own choice is to go a totally different direction from almost everyone else, and to take the far more unconventional outside the box approach of doing business with myself. For example: I wanted a home. So, acting as a bank, I gave myself a 0% loan to buy land, then I hired myself to develop the land into a buildable entity, and then I hired myself as both a tradesman laborer, and as a general contractor to oversee building the home. I then acted as a real estate agent representing myself as the development company, and sold the finished product to myself commission free, for $0, and no mortgage. Total ROI: 400% at today's current real estate market values. So you see, my approach to financial management is to become an American Capitalist producer, and to also be one of my own customers. The secret is to own outright the complete production pipeline from raw land to finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream_weaver Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 The secret is to own outright the complete production pipeline from raw land to finished product. Rockefeller, Carnegie and others would have also admonished you for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 At this point in the gold/silver ratio, wouldn't silver be the favored horse? Meh, you can't go by that. Governments across the world are using gold as a means to store wealth. That likely makes gold more valuable than it used to be, compared to silver. But, of course, silver is just as good an option as gold, depending on the logistics of buying and storing it. So are other things, but, out of almost all of them, gold is the most convenient to store and trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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