Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum

Americans have their holidays in perspective

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn02.html

Mr. Steyn is certainly right here. The other day, my immediate boss in Frankfurt looked at the spreadsheet where we enter our planned vacations and saw that I had no entry from January until "God knows when," so would I please enter my days off up till May at least. It felt a bit strange to respond that I don't actually plan to go on vacation until September... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was funny. Made me feel proud about the fact that I work most holidays. In fact the only time I don't is that once a year holiday (It varies Christmas or Thanksgiving) where I visit my family. ;)

So you are in Hungary? I checked your profile and it said so, but just curious. One of my best friends here is Hungarian and I keep trying to get him to agree to go with me on a trip to Europe. I don't think he's been back in a long time though. He left to work on the cruise ships years ago and then when he came here stayed. It's just I've never been and I want to see, he's always telling me about it, though not always all that favorably. He says the food is wonderful though ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you are in Hungary? I checked your profile and it said so, but just curious.

Yes, I'm a Hungarian and I live in Hungary, although I hope I can soon become an American and live in America. :)

He left to work on the cruise ships years ago and then when he came here stayed.

I like him already! ;)

It's just I've never been and I want to see, he's always telling me about it, though not always all that favorably.

One thing I like about Hungary is the growth that has begun after the collapse of Communism. It is exciting to travel around the country and see new shopping centers, hypermarkets, car dealerships, hotels, and filling stations pop up in every town. There are limits to how much freer Hungary will become, though--our leaders have abandoned socialism, but not the mixed economy--and the EU, which we joined last May, is also likely to influence things for the worse.

So I don't mind living in Hungary--for a while.

He says the food is wonderful though :)

Well, that depends on where you eat. The "heritage" canteens (leftovers from the Communist era) are pretty awful, but the more "capitalistic" restaurants tend to do quite well in comparison to their Western European counterparts. The food you can buy in supermarkets also tends to be better than in Germany (or at least it is more to my taste...) :)

If you do visit Hungary, make sure to contact me. So far I have only met one Objectivist in person (EGO, who is working on a school project in Hungary right now), so you would receive a very enthusiastic welcome from me! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It must be hard to get things done in business over there. We have a hard enough time getting things done at my job over Christmas, because in general nobody wants to (or can) start anything significant the week before they are off, and it takes another week to get back on track after the holiday.

Although I don't like the idea of "forced" government holidays (where businesses must be closed), I can always find great things to do in my time off, and would love to have more of it. The problem is that there is a trade-off between that and personal wealth, because the economy will not produce as much, and businesses will not be able to pay as much to employees. I wouldn't want to take so many days off that I did not have enough money to do something fun, such as travel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I'm a Hungarian and I live in Hungary, although I hope I can soon become an American and live in America. :)

[...]

Given the government's unbelievably long backlog in reviewing applications for immigrants, you might have to wait years to come to America. If you have immediate relatives here, you'll have a much easier time--visas are unlimited and immediately available. It takes a very long time and a lot of money. (You can then see why so many prefer to come here illegally)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I like about Hungary is the growth that has begun after the collapse of Communism. It is exciting to travel around the country and see new shopping centers, hypermarkets, car dealerships, hotels, and filling stations pop up in every town.

That is really wonderful to hear. It was shameful how we abandoned Hungary's last radio cries for "Help" in the 1956 uprising. It is at least heartwarming to know that some spirit of freedom remained.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is really wonderful to hear. It was shameful how we abandoned Hungary's last radio cries for "Help" in the 1956 uprising. It is at least heartwarming to know that some spirit of freedom remained.

Well, it wasn't America's duty to help Hungary in '56, especially not with taxpayer's money...Although a voluntarily funded assistance with the revolution would certainly have been a good idea.

BTW, even the way it eventually went, the revolution wasn't entirely in vain, as the brutal Communist despotism of the early 1950s was replaced with a much more timid "soft dictatorship" as its result. People were allowed to run their small businesses, there was some trade with the West, traveling was much easier than in other Communist countries, and so on...We were known as the "most cheerful barracks."

(The downside of this relative freedom was that it diminished the anger towards Communists--a good dose of which would have come in handy after the party state collapsed and there was an opportunity to turn towards capitalism !)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it wasn't America's duty to help Hungary in '56, especially not with taxpayer's money...

What I was referring to -- if I recall my history correctly -- is that the Hungarians were led to believe that we would provide support if they would revolt. I think Dulles, our Secretary of State, indicated this, and I believe this was the message of Radio Free Europe broadcasting at that time. They cried for help and we did nothing, and something like 30,000 Hungarians died in the revolt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I was referring to -- if I recall my history correctly -- is that the Hungarians were led to believe that we would provide support if they would revolt. I think Dulles, our Secretary of State, indicated this

He certainly didn't promise military support, although perhaps some of his statements could have added to the hopes on the part of Hungarians that the U.S. might help. It would seem to me that the Republicans of that time were pretty much like they are today: Well-meaning supporters of freedom who could use a backbone transplant...

BTW, while I did a Google search to find out what exactly Dulles said, I stumbled on Ambassador Jeszensky's views on the subject--you might find it an interesting read.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you do visit Hungary, make sure to contact me. So far I have only met one Objectivist in person (EGO, who is working on a school project in Hungary right now), so you would receive a very enthusiastic welcome from me! :D

I certainly will. I'm new to Objectivism so I haven't even tried to meet any others in person yet, but I have certainly seen the changes in myself and my perception of people, and when I first tried talking about it to my friends they did not react well, so I bring it up only carefully around certain people for now. That's what's great about the web though :D you can choose your friends from all over the world :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He certainly didn't promise military support, although perhaps some of his statements could have added to the hopes on the part of Hungarians that the U.S. might help. It would seem to me that the Republicans of that time were pretty much like they are today: Well-meaning supporters of freedom who could use a backbone transplant...

BTW, while I did a Google search to find out what exactly Dulles said, I stumbled on Ambassador Jeszensky's views on the subject--you might find it an interesting read.

Well, I studied this history many years ago, and I do not now want to do the research in historical books, so even though I do not consider the internet as a generally reliable source, I searched and these are the words of Dulles that I recall.

"To all those suffering under communist slavery, let us say you can count on us."

And, as I mentioned in my other post, Radio free Europe was involved. Here is a portion from this site, which contains "A History of Documents."

" Yet Washington's role in the Hungarian revolution soon became mired in controversy. One of the most successful weapons in the East-West battle for the hearts and minds of Eastern Europe was the CIA-administered Radio Free Europe. But in the wake of the uprising, RFE's broadcasts into Hungary sometimes took on a much more aggressive tone, encouraging the rebels to believe that Western support was imminent, and even giving tactical advice on how to fight the Soviets. The hopes that were raised, then dashed, by these broadcasts cast an even darker shadow over the Hungarian tragedy that leaves many Hungarians embittered to this day."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bring it up only carefully around certain people for now.

Same here--I have talked about Ayn Rand to my best friend (who is my best friend for a reason--she is a very selfish little girl! :)) and to one of my colleagues who inquired about it explicitly when he saw me reading this forum, and that's it. I do like to illustrate Objectivist principles to people in practice (and in a German software project, there are plenty of opportunities for that--lots of examples of the anti-conceptual mentality! B)) but I prefer to keep my study of Objectivism a private experience. Better not throw my pearls before people who might turn out to be swine...

That's what's great about the web though :) you can choose your friends from all over the world :)

Exactly! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"To all those suffering under communist slavery, let us say you can count on us."

That was said during the 1952 Presidential campaign, not in the direct context of 1956, so I doubt that the revolutionaries had it very much on their minds in '56, if they had heard about it at all. From the way these events are recalled today, it seems to me that people were aware of a possibility, but not of a promise, of American intervention. If it had been otherwise, there are certain elements in our media that would no doubt jump on this opportunity to denigrate America...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Same here--I have talked about Ayn Rand to my best friend (who is my best friend for a reason--she is a very selfish little girl! :)) and to one of my colleagues who inquired about it explicitly when he saw me reading this forum, and that's it. I do like to illustrate Objectivist principles to people in practice (and in a German software project, there are plenty of opportunities for that--lots of examples of the anti-conceptual mentality! B)) but I prefer to keep my study of Objectivism a private experience. Better not throw my pearls before people who might turn out to be swine...

I think it's like a love affair, only with yourself, not one of conceit but one of discovery, even seeing my mistakes is not painful because now I know why they are what they are and how to change what I want to and also how many ways I was on the right track. It's so deeply personal, but at first I wanted to share it with everyone, and now I still want to share it but in a different way. I'm so happy to see the online community, it's of such vital importance. I'm reading the Voice of Reason right now, and it's wonderful, the part where Ayn says that she did not expect to be the lone voice, and if she can be an inspiration to the reader she knows how we feel looking for such a voice in a sea of nonsense. And thanks to her now there are many voices. I aspire to be one of them eventually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's like a love affair, only with yourself, not one of conceit but one of discovery

That is a great way of describing it. It is one love affair that takes a lot of courage to enter, though--after all, you can't break up with yourself! I suppose this is why there are so few people who dare to really love themselves...What they fail to realize is that once you're committed to yourself, you'll never want to break up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a great way of describing it. It is one love affair that takes a lot of courage to enter, though--after all, you can't break up with yourself! I suppose this is why there are so few people who dare to really love themselves...What they fail to realize is that once you're committed to yourself, you'll never want to break up!

I agree that it takes courage. I think alot of people hide from themselves. Holding onto contradictions you almost have to. I see now that the altruistic mentality offered me no chance at life. So many of the things that Objectvism teaches, I already knew and had nearly let the world convince me I was wrong, but I knew I culdn't be, I just didn't know why I was right. I enjoy my own company much more now :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was said during the 1952 Presidential campaign, not in the direct context of 1956, so I doubt that the revolutionaries had it very much on their minds in '56 ...

Now you are forcing me to actually do a bit of the research I did not want to spend the time doing. The full quote from Dulles which I had remembered, and which the internet version is just a portion of, was made in a television speech in early February 1953. This was not "during the 1952 Presidential campaign," but rather Dulles' first major act as the new Secretary of State in 1953. These were his words:

"... to create in other peoples such a love and respect for freedom that they can never really be absorbed by the despotism, the totalitarian dictatorship of the Communist world ... Our nation must stand as a solid rock in a storm-tossed world. To all those suffering under Communist slavery, to the timid and intimidated peoples of the world, let us say this: you can count upon us."

Dulles' words echoed throughout the world, and though this was before the Hungarian revolt, there is no doubt that the spirit of those words were reflected in the CIA-administrated Radio Free Europe broadcasts (which I mentioned twice before) directed specifically towards encouraging, supporting, and aiding the Hungarian revolt. When the Hungarian freedom fighters were last heard broadcasting, asking the Western world for help, they were begging for their lives and for the freedom of their country, and they had reason to believe that help would be forthcoming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...