Book Suggestions

[Praxus]

I have recently finished reading Polybius’ Histories and I was wondering; what do you think would be the best work to read now? Particularly I’d like to read about the times prior to the 1st Punic War (where Polybius starts off) and after the war against Philip of Macedon (pretty much where he ends, or at least my translation ends) until the fall of the Republic. Would Livy be the best to read at this point? Also if you have any other recommendations, let me know.

[Alon]

I have recently finished reading Polybius’ Histories and I was wondering; what do you think would be the best work to read now? Particularly I’d like to read about the times prior to the 1st Punic War (where Polybius starts off) and after the war against Philip of Macedon (pretty much where he ends, or at least my translation ends) until the fall of the Republic. Would Livy be the best to read at this point? Also if you have any other recommendations, let me know.

If you want to read the Roman authors, you know the usual names. However, if you want to read recent historical scholarship, I recommend the following:

The Beginnings of Rome

and

The Last Generation of the Roman Republic

[Praxus]

Thanks.

[Free Capitalist]

The two main historians for Rome prior to 1st Punic War are Livy and Dionysius of Halicarnassus ("History is philosophy teaching by examples"). Other historians, such as Cassius Dio, provide summaries for that time period.

Btw, you should get into Greek history too; it's just as valuable, for different reasons.

[Praxus]

That's odd that you say that, because I just ordered Herodotus' Histories along with Livy's First Five Books and the ones on the Second Punis War.

[Free Capitalist]

Yeah Herodotus and Thucydides are the two 'musts' in earliest Greek History.

[Alon]

I won't give you a detailed review of this book because I am far from finished, but I highly recommend it. Paideia: The ideals of Greek Culture by Werner Jaeger.

[Praxus]

Alon, your book recommendations would throw me into poverty;) But I guess, as the saying goes, "You get what you pay for".

[Alon]

Praxus, you probably wont find these in a public library, but see if you can get access to a local university's library. Yeah, the books are expensive, but are well worth it, *especially* Jaeger's. I'll be sure to write a review of it when finished.

And as Erasmus said, "When I have a little money, I buy books. If I have any left, I buy clothes and food."

[Alon]

Oh! And how could I forget?! Lucan's Civil War, but you *must* read Nicholas Rowe's translation. Read about it here.

[Praxus]

Sounds great! If it's not to exspensive I could just buy. Do you know of anywhere on the Interent I can buy that specific translation?

[Alon]

I found it on Amazon.co.uk, but Amazon.com has replaced the Rowe translation with a more modern one, .co.uk may have done the same without updating their site. You could always check www.abebooks.com

[Free Capitalist]

I visited the site, and, wow, I never realized that Lucan was so cool Thanks Alon, I must check it out! Now since you probably can read it in Latin as well as in English, can you tell me how much the poem suffers in translation?

[Alon]

Free Capitalist, actually I can't read it in Latin. I am only a 3rd year Latin student and Lucan is considered to be one of the more difficult poets. This year I am covering some basic texts from the Anthology of Latin Prose and the first two books of Vergil's Aeneid (I recommend Pharr's commentaries for the beginner).

Rowe does lose a lot in translation, but the point of reading Rowe is the beauty of the English verse. If you want a translation more loyal to the original you will have to look elsewhere, but I find that such translations lose a lot of the poetic value.

Reading Rowe's translation is akin to reading Alexander Pope's translation of the Iliad, its available for free at the Gutenberg Project. Here is the first stanza:

Achilles' wrath, to Greece the direful spring

Of woes unnumber'd, heavenly goddess, sing!

That wrath which hurl'd to Pluto's gloomy reign

The souls of mighty chiefs untimely slain;

Whose limbs unburied on the naked shore,

Devouring dogs and hungry vultures tore. [1]

Since great Achilles and Atrides strove,

Such was the sovereign doom, and such the will of Jove!

If you compare that to a translation such as Fagles, you can see how much he loses in translation, but poetically it far surpasses Fagles' translation and makes you appreciate it as a poem.

[Free Capitalist]

Oh, I see what you're saying. No I found Fangles' edition superb, very... Greek in its translation ("Priam, breaker of horses", etc), but also very fluid to read, and very dramatic in its own right. That Pope translation is nice, but it's almost becoming an English poem about Greek heroes, rather than being a Greek poem about Greek heroes, for an English audience; it loses the antique aura that I like about ancient literature.

[Alon]

I couldn't disagree more. Fagles is so dry and uninspiring. Some sections sound as though he translated literally, using Greek syntax ("Achilles Hector walls of Troy around chased"). Pope's usage of - what is to us - archaic English gives it an aura of an ancient epic where as Fagles near-prose-like translation with its simple English is entirely modern and doesn't give the feeling of antiquity.

So that I dont lose anything in translation, I'll read Homer in the original, but while having to make do with an English version, I would like to be inspired by the verse as any ancient Greek would.

[Praxus]

I'm reading Livy's first five books about the early history of Rome at the moment. After this I would like to read about Romes war with Philip V of Macedon. Would you guys happen to know if Livy's works about this time period still survive? And if it does what name it would carry? If not do you know of any other Historians who wrote about it?

[Free Capitalist]

Livy does write about the war I believe, and I think the part of his history that survives comes down to around the sack of Corinth in 148BC, or some time around there (and therefore covers the Third Macedonian War you asked about, among other things).

In addition to Livy's account, you can read Plutarch's Life of Flamininus, about the Roman general who defeated Philip and set Greece free.

Edit: Oh, and how could I forget Polybius who also deals with this in depth.

Edited February 13, 2005 by Free Capitalist

[Praxus]

Edit: Oh, and how could I forget Polybius who also deals with this in depth.

Hmm, I have Polybius, but it's an abridged version and there is only a relitivly small section on the war with Macedon. Is there more about it in the un-abridged version?

[Free Capitalist]

Yep Polybius talks a lot about Greek affairs during the Punic Wars. He even talks about the third Punic War and his own eyewitness account of the destruction of Carthage, which is completely absent from the abridged version.

[Praxus]

Yep Polybius talks a lot about Greek affairs during the Punic Wars. He even talks about the third Punic War and his own eyewitness account of the destruction of Carthage, which is completely absent from the abridged version.

Yah I noticed that, the book on the Third Punic War was 1 page long, and only had a very brief summary of the events.

[Silverhawk]

A History of Banking in the United States

The Coming Battle

In this volume the author endeavors to give an accurate history of the present National Bank System of currency, including an account of the first United States Bank,- both of which were borrowed from Great Britain by those statesmen who, like the father of Sir Robert Peel, believed that a national debt was the source of prosperity.

It is believed that the facts adduced in the following pages will be productive of some good, in pointing out the immense evils lurking in that system of banking, a system which has produced panics at will, and which is the active abettor of the stock gamblers, railroad wreckers, and those industrial tyrants of modern times, the enormously overcapitalized and oppressive trusts.

It is sought to point out the great dangers of delegating purely government powers to these greedy monopolists, by which they are enabled to organize a money trust, far more tyrannical than all the other combinations now in existence; and by which they absolutely defy the authority that endowed them with corporate life.

The issue between these banks and the people will be joined in the near future, and the greatest struggle

4

the world ever witnessed will take place between the usurping banks on the one hand and the people on the other.

In the nature of things, unjustly acquired power of man over man generally rises to such heights of arrogance, as to eventually create a public opinion that will grind tyranny of every form to atoms, hence, The Coming Battle that will surely take place in the near future and the victory that will be won by justice will be the noblest events in American history.

[DavidV]

I've started a book recommendations section: http://wiki.objectivismonline.net/Book_Recommendations

Edited February 15, 2005 by GreedyCapitalist