Slavery of the young

[Almost Free Male]

So, here at Objectivism Online we are objectivists, or claim to be, anyways.  I'll get to the point:  American youth are enslaved.

Here are my main points : A. A child can be acting rationally while their parents are not.

B.A child can be rationally acting while a statesman is not.

Let's get to some examples. A. A youth wants to work on a science project of theirs which their religious parents deem witchcraft and thus prohibit.  A youth wishes to be with their peers which is intellectually stimulating while the parents prohibit it. 
The outcome of A will be the use of force or violence that parents can use.

B.  A statesman can determine that a child be given to parents who can in turn use violence or if the parents are rational and disagree with the state's laws, the children can be ripped from their parents and put in a foster home or institution where there is total control (hypothetically)

If A, the child would hypothetically leave the situation but because of B they cannot.  Thus, the slavery of a child.

[Harrison Danneskjold]

I don't know about outright slavery but, yes; children are being horribly mistreated nowadays, especially with respect to the development of their minds.

 

Have you read The Comprachios?

And what's your point?

[Almost Free Male]

"It is the education establishment that has created this national disaster.  It is philosophy that has created the educational establishment.  The anti-rational philosophic trend of the past two hundred years has run its course and has reached its climax.  To oppose it will require a philosophical revolution or, rather, a rebirth of philosophy."  That's my point.

[Harrison Danneskjold]

Then I agree with you.

[Nicky]

It's not true that children are enslaved in the US. I wish people would stop misusing that word.

[Almost Free Male]

It's not true that children are enslaved in the US. I wish people would stop misusing that word.

2.Cause (someone) to lose freedom of choice or action.

Merriam Webster.

[Harrison Danneskjold]

It's not true that children are enslaved in the US. I wish people would stop misusing that word.

2.Cause (someone) to lose freedom of choice or action.

Merriam Webster.

 

Okay; preemptive definition of terms before this spirals into a pointless little squabble.

 

Yes, to enslave someone is to take away their freedom, but to what degree?  That's the question for you two.

No, you don't have to actually chain someone to the yoke and whip them in order to enslave them, but you can't do it by giving them after-school detention; it's somewhere in the middle.

 

If this continues anywhere let's please define for ourselves what the distinction is.

[CptnChan]

2.Cause (someone) to lose freedom of choice or action.

Merriam Webster.

That applies to someone with rights. I believe children have limited rights until they're an adult.

[Nicky]

Okay; preemptive definition of terms before this spirals into a pointless little squabble.

 

Yes, to enslave someone is to take away their freedom, but to what degree?

First, we'd have to define freedom, in Objectivist terms. Or at least clarify that, in Objectivism, freedom doesn't mean allowing children to do whatever they want.

Then we can worry about degrees of loss of freedom.

[Spiral Architect]

Nicky is right on, we shouldn't abuse the language to make a point.  This is not slavery. 

 

Slavery implies a lack of choice and kids do have choice. 

 

What the education system does is cripple their minds so their range of choices is restricted and the means to getting more choices (and how to chose) is damaged.  

 

So the youth are not being enslaved, they are experiencing the mental version equivalent of torture and being maimed.

 

Intellectually disfigured? 

[Harrison Danneskjold]

So the youth are not being enslaved, they are experiencing the mental version equivalent of torture and being maimed.

 

Intellectually disfigured? 

 Exactly.

 

And you can't just let kids do whatever they want, whenever they want.  If I were to allow my son to play with the oven every time he attempts to, to run out into the street or to play with electrical chords, how good of a parent would I be?

You have to make some decisions for them because they can't make them for themselves, yet.  When they're adult they can.

 

And where's the division between able and unable to make your own decisions?  Sadly it isn't a cut and dry thing, but more of a grey area; I suppose perhaps some children are being technically enslaved, for a few years or so, because they can make their own decisions before they're eighteen.

But what're you going to do?  It's much less of a legal thing, to do with the government, and more of an individual thing.

 

Anyway.  What bothers me is the intentional indoctrination of mysticism-altruism-collectivism into all of our children, funded by your taxes and mine.  But that's slightly tangential.

[mdegges]

I assume you're referring to the public education system in the US. How exactly does it teach the indoctrination of mysticism-altruism-collectivism? I learned about evolution in my biology classes, not creationism.. I had physics and chem classes, not bible study. So what specifically is being taught that you have a problem with, and what changes would you suggest (besides a complete privatization of schools, which is not going to happen anytime soon)?

[Spiral Architect]

I took some college courses a while back in a mistake to get a BA in business and while mysticism was not present (if anything it went he other way into Skepticism) the altruistic and collectivist doctrines are there.  Business Ethics featured the most quotes on the purpose of business from Marx and only one from Freedmen (who was the wrong one to quote but leas they had one).  Such things as "Stakeholders" and "Corporate Citizenship" are easy examples.   In another example, my boss at work has a picture of her kid at work from school where the child one he school's "Citizenship Award" for helping the most people.  I also know some high schools make volunteering mandatory a well but honestly I can't think of the name I read last. 

 

And the less I say on the Multicultural Class that was required for a business degree the better.  Needless to say the sad attempt to give a group of people a so-called "group personality" based on skin color or zip code of birth is nothing but primitive collectivist thinking. 

[Spiral Architect]

 Exactly.

 

And you can't just let kids do whatever they want, whenever they want.  If I were to allow my son to play with the oven every time he attempts to, to run out into the street or to play with electrical chords, how good of a parent would I be?

You have to make some decisions for them because they can't make them for themselves, yet.  When they're adult they can.

 

And where's the division between able and unable to make your own decisions?  Sadly it isn't a cut and dry thing, but more of a grey area; I suppose perhaps some children are being technically enslaved, for a few years or so, because they can make their own decisions before they're eighteen.

But what're you going to do?  It's much less of a legal thing, to do with the government, and more of an individual thing.

 

Anyway.  What bothers me is the intentional indoctrination of mysticism-altruism-collectivism into all of our children, funded by your taxes and mine.  But that's slightly tangential.

 

That is all very true.  The base problem is the real lack of developing critical thinking skills.  Everything else I suspect is a derivative of that failure. 

[Harrison Danneskjold]

I assume you're referring to the public education system in the US. How exactly does it teach the indoctrination of mysticism-altruism-collectivism? I learned about evolution in my biology classes, not creationism.. I had physics and chem classes, not bible study. So what specifically is being taught that you have a problem with, and what changes would you suggest (besides a complete privatization of schools, which is not going to happen anytime soon)?

 Global warming, deforestation, manmade A B C and D; environmentalism, in general, runs rampant.

Black History Month.

During black history month one year I specifically remember my choir teacher, who was white, telling my class all about white priveledge and how oppressed everyone else still is.

Some schools (the only one I know of is in Iowa) have a class on American Government; I don't think I need to go into more detail.

 

But it is much less mysticism (at least, in any religious sort of sense) than it is altruism and collectivism; the mysticism is hard to find, the altruism is inescapable.