In the future your perspective might change

[LoBagola]

I had a conversation with a friend recently and I was telling her about some principles I admired and what I believe to be true; she said "you may feel that way now but in the future you might think differently, you may have a different perspective". I didn't reply, but I've been thinking about the statement since and it really frustrates me when people say it. I actually get it a lot; "your unrealistic, you just don't have enough world experience and perspective as a young person. When your older you'll understand things better" (despite travelling alone for many months in countries and city most adults never go to).

 

How should I think about this?

 

I want to say no! if I've validated knowledge how can I ever think otherwise. Can I not say with 100% certainty that I'll never change. How could I suddenly choose to believe in God when I know existence exists and that I exist possessing consciousness. My current way of thinking about it is that as I'm a fallible consciousness I'll make mistakes but whatever knowledge is solid I'll have verified, proved and connected to percepts; it cannot change. A is A. I'll always believe it. I'll slowly build my knowledge tower on immutable base floors before moving up. Sometimes the top layers will be faulty, so I'll knock them off; but I won't suddenly go down and knock out the bottom level.

 

 

 

 

[A is A]

Those assertions are meant to undercut idealism and confidence in one's mind.  Ignore them.  The people who assert them gave up pursuing their values and have settled for less in life.

[bluecherry]

Oh yeah, "You might change your mind" -- that one's so often right up there with, "You might be a robot" for assertions made without evidence for the specific case somebody is trying to apply them to that yet, somehow, people expect others to actually take seriously.

[Nicky]

I had a conversation with a friend recently and I was telling her about some principles I admired and what I believe to be true; she said "you may feel that way now but in the future you might think differently, you may have a different perspective".

That's very vague (both her statement and your description of the conversation). Depending on what you views you're talking about, and depending on what kind of change in perspective she's talking about, she could have a point or she could be wrong.

Luckily, you're about to get specific here:

How should I think about this?

 

I want to say no! if I've validated knowledge how can I ever think otherwise. Can I not say with 100% certainty that I'll never change. How could I suddenly choose to believe in God when I know existence exists and that I exist possessing consciousness. My current way of thinking about it is that as I'm a fallible consciousness I'll make mistakes but whatever knowledge is solid I'll have verified, proved and connected to percepts; it cannot change. A is A. I'll always believe it. I'll slowly build my knowledge tower on immutable base floors before moving up. Sometimes the top layers will be faulty, so I'll knock them off; but I won't suddenly go down and knock out the bottom level.

Ok, that's specific enough. If that's what the conversation was about, then you're right.

There's no newfound knowledge or perspective that will cause someone striving to be rational, to abandon reason (to develop some kind of faith). Making that change would require you to arbitrarily (as opposed to based on some knowledge) choose to abandon reason (since reason is, by definition, the ability to act on the facts of reality). Only by abandoning reason could you then could you embrace faith (which, by definition, is the ability to ignore the facts of reality).

It is perfectly legitimate, and I highly recommend it, that you should resolve to never make such an arbitrary choice. It is perfectly rational to predict that you'll never do, all it takes is knowing yourself enough to know that you have the ability to keep that resolve, even through hardship. Having such an expectation, that you will be able to stay rational, come hell or high water, is a sign of self esteem.

[Eiuol]

I would think about it in terms of if you find a contradiction in your thinking you should change your mind, but that possibility doesn't suddenly make your principles into purely subjective ones. I find it annoying when people presume certainty equals close-mindedness and unwillingness to consider new information and knowledge.

[CrowEpistemologist]

I had a conversation with a friend recently and I was telling her about some principles I admired and what I believe to be true; she said "you may feel that way now but in the future you might think differently, you may have a different perspective". I didn't reply, but I've been thinking about the statement since and it really frustrates me when people say it. I actually get it a lot; "your unrealistic, you just don't have enough world experience and perspective as a young person. When your older you'll understand things better" (despite travelling alone for many months in countries and city most adults never go to).

 

How should I think about this?

 

I want to say no! if I've validated knowledge how can I ever think otherwise. Can I not say with 100% certainty that I'll never change. How could I suddenly choose to believe in God when I know existence exists and that I exist possessing consciousness. My current way of thinking about it is that as I'm a fallible consciousness I'll make mistakes but whatever knowledge is solid I'll have verified, proved and connected to percepts; it cannot change. A is A. I'll always believe it. I'll slowly build my knowledge tower on immutable base floors before moving up. Sometimes the top layers will be faulty, so I'll knock them off; but I won't suddenly go down and knock out the bottom level.

 

You are right about the tower you are building, but remember that sometimes you'll need to pull out things that are somewhere closer to the middle of your tower, not just on the very top. Sometimes its a bit of a mess and requires a lot of re-thinking.

 

The bottom floor, however, should never move.

 

Oh, and be careful about classifying knowledge as belonging on the first floor and therefore being immutable. Not too much belongs there. It feels great to put stuff down there because you can feel comfortable that you won't have to go through the pain of re-thinking a whole bunch of things, but if you truly commit yourself to reality you must keep what is often called, "an open mind" (which is to say an active mind). It means you don't shy away from questioning any of your long-held beliefs. You can do this because you know that your deepest beliefs in reality and reason will never change.

[mdegges]

@Crow, that is a great description.

 

That's very vague (both her statement and your description of the conversation). Depending on what you views you're talking about, and depending on what kind of change in perspective she's talking about, she could have a point or she could be wrong.

Luckily, you're about to get specific here:
Ok, that's specific enough. If that's what the conversation was about, then you're right.

There's no newfound knowledge or perspective that will cause someone striving to be rational, to abandon reason (to develop some kind of faith). Making that change would require you to arbitrarily (as opposed to based on some knowledge) choose to abandon reason (since reason is, by definition, the ability to act on the facts of reality). Only by abandoning reason could you then could you embrace faith (which, by definition, is the ability to ignore the facts of reality).

It is perfectly legitimate, and I highly recommend it, that you should resolve to never make such an arbitrary choice. It is perfectly rational to predict that you'll never do, all it takes is knowing yourself enough to know that you have the ability to keep that resolve, even through hardship. Having such an expectation, that you will be able to stay rational, come hell or high water, is a sign of self esteem.

 

Just to expand on this a bit, being rational does not mean that you are never going to change your mind about anything. IF new information comes up that causes you to question/rethink your stance on an issue, you have to deal with that information (or store it away and deal with it as soon as you can). This happens to me a lot. I think, yes, I am for XYZ, but then I read a paper or hear a new argument that causes me to question my stance. Sometimes I can't think of a counter-argument right away- other times it takes me a long time to realize there isn't one- and I have to wait until I can work through it before I make up my mind. Even then, there is always the very real possibility that I have gotten something wrong, or don't have all the information necessary to be absolutely sure of myself.

 

Anyways, being rational about your beliefs means that you must continually question them when a new argument appears. If you can easily counter it, that's great, and you can more sure about your position. But if you can't, you either need to do more studying until you CAN counter it or find a logical counter, or you need to rethink your position altogether.

[Mushroom]

I had a conversation with a friend recently and I was telling her about some principles I admired and what I believe to be true; she said "you may feel that way now but in the future you might think differently, you may have a different perspective". I didn't reply, but I've been thinking about the statement since and it really frustrates me when people say it. I actually get it a lot; "your unrealistic, you just don't have enough world experience and perspective as a young person. When your older you'll understand things better" (despite travelling alone for many months in countries and city most adults never go to).

 

How should I think about this?

 

First, I'd say that simply telling someone that they'll change their mind if they're older or more educated is a poor, emotionally based attack. It's a form of ad hominem and I (speaking for myself here, not telling you what to do) would hesitate to call whoever said that to me a friend. That said, I can see that what she said wasn't exactly "you will change your mind" but "you could change your mind" - which is an entirely useless statement because of course everyone could change his or her minds.

 

I get uncomfortable when I haven't changed my mind in a few years about some political, ethical, metaphysical, etc. point. If I'm constantly learning about things, and if new facts are constantly being discovered and learned, then my views should and will change. My most recent changes of viewpoint were on the death penalty which, while moral, I fear is in real danger of killing someone innocent, and the practice of circumcision, which I learned had no real benefits here in the U.S. I've been recommended the book "Human Smoke" which, I'm told, may change my view that WWII was necessary on the U.S.'s part. I'm not sure if it will change my opinion, but it might. I agree pretty much with Crow Epistemologist below.

You are right about the tower you are building, but remember that sometimes you'll need to pull out things that are somewhere closer to the middle of your tower, not just on the very top. Sometimes its a bit of a mess and requires a lot of re-thinking.

 

The bottom floor, however, should never move.

 

I think that the bottom floor should almost never move. I came from Christianity and it certainly moved my bottom floor to become an atheist. If some sort of god appeared and brought people back from the dead... well I'd have my head checked out, but if I weren't crazy and this had been verified as accurate by reputable atheists, then I'd at least accept the possibility of my bottom floor moving again. 

[StrictlyLogical]

If you are feeling snarky you could say something to the effect that:

 

"I could contract the mentally ravaging mad-cow disease, I could have a stroke or a debilitating concussion, I could also develop senility or Alzheimer's in my senior years, and so technically speaking it is at least possible in a general sense that my mind 'could change', however, as long as I am free from disease or injury, I will continue to possess an intelligent and rational mind and will not change my mind."

[John Link]

I think that the bottom floor should almost never move. I came from Christianity and it certainly moved my bottom floor to become an atheist. If some sort of god appeared and brought people back from the dead... well I'd have my head checked out, but if I weren't crazy and this had been verified as accurate by reputable atheists, then I'd at least accept the possibility of my bottom floor moving again. 

 

Well said!

[thenelli01]

I actually get it a lot; "your unrealistic, you just don't have enough world experience and perspective as a young person. When your older you'll understand things better" (despite travelling alone for many months in countries and city most adults never go to).

 

 

i.e. "I don't have an argument, so I will play the 'maturity' card". Actually, most people get older and never understand things better. Or at least, never challenge the premises behind their assertions.

 

But I would simply respond, "if you have an argument against what I am saying, then present it. Saying that I am young isn't an argument and it doesn't prove your position."

 

It is a tactic used in place of an argument, much like an appeal to authority. "I am older than you, therefore, my position is above yours due to that fact."

Edited September 15, 2013 by thenelli01

[Devil's Advocate]

I had a conversation with a friend recently and I was telling her about some principles I admired and what I believe to be true; she said "you may feel that way now but in the future you might think differently, you may have a different perspective". I didn't reply, but I've been thinking about the statement since and it really frustrates me when people say it. I actually get it a lot; "your unrealistic, you just don't have enough world experience and perspective as a young person. When your older you'll understand things better" (despite traveling alone for many months in countries and city most adults never go to).

 

How should I think about this?

I can't help responding to this by giving my own perspective...

 

Early in my 20's, my dad asked if I ever saw myself getting married.  I was working offshore in the job I wanted and enjoying being single, so I said no and was fairly certain about it; I enjoyed the freedom of being single.  My dad smiled and said, "Yeah, that's how I felt just before I met your mother."  6 Months later I was engaged to someone from high school, and have been happily married ever since.

 

Your future perspective may be different; you will have added experience.  How future events may influence how you feel about what you know is predictive.  1+1 will still equal 2, but perhaps you'll end up hating math...  For now, continue checking your premises, and be true to yourself.  In the end, either she will be right, or you will.

[Plasmatic]

Usually, this type of comment is made (condescendingly) in place of an argument in defense of ones premises. I simply ask, "what is the principle that aging and experience will bring to me, which I do not possess?" Most of the time there is no response to this.