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How Could a Government, Without Force, Earn Revenue?

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Miss Rand said [paraphrasing]: There are many ways. (Then she gave an example which she made clear she wasn't necessarily endorsing but didn't violate her principles)...The government could insure business contracts which would give businessmen access to the civil court system to resolve alleged breaches to insured contracts. (A small percentage of every transaction.) If businessmen chose not to buy the insurance, & if there was an alleged breach of their uninsured contract, they would have no legal recourse. Miss Rand semed to be prompting me, and other people who share her principles, to come up with more ideas and figure out the details. I'm thinking about it. Does anybody have any ideas?

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There are many ways to skin the cat. Insurance could pay to law enforcement agencies which in turn will pay for legislation process, Or people could pay directly and voluntary for different government projects. If government managed to collect enough for the certain project, it will go ahead with it, if not-not. people also could directly subscribe with law enforcement companies which will pay part of their income to government as a payment for providing legal framework. as for the proposal above, i don't think that government can really compete on this with insurance companies.

Edited by Leonid
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Lotteries were used to build some of the first highways in America. War bonds were one means to generate funding during several of America's wars. Leonid is quite right about using insurance companies to accomplish many of the services mismanaged through government. There are a number of Youtube presentations illustrating various ways to use market solutions to replace government services. I would be cautious of government ambitions of "making money", or government for profit. I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but if setting government on a mission to secure wealth within its treasury vaults, they will be tempted to use immoral methods.

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Thanks softwareNerd for pointing me in the right directions. And heck, yeah, Repairman, a lottery is definitely a legitimate idea. I've heard some arguements for a national sales tax, with an untaxed, unlicensed, etc.,  buying and selling legally occuring simultaneously (black market is the closest term I've got). I don't know if it would violate LFC principles if I supported a national sales tax, even if it was voluntary (meaning I could choose to buy on a legalized black market, opting to forfeit some sort of legal recourse if the product/service is not as advertised/agreed upon). But I am less hesistant to assert that If a government wants to offer a product or service, that EARNS revenue to pay for its proper role, then I think it can be done without violating LFC principles. I don't call that intervening; I call that being a legitimate player in the market. As long as they don't use force. I would never knowingly violate an Objectivist principles. This topic (in other forums) exposed members who aren't Objectivists. Alan Greenspan, in his memoir, praised Miss Rand as mentor then, in the same breath, tried to discredit her philosophy because he said [paraphrasing]: "I was an Objectivist until she said a government shouldn't tax, it should be voluntary. That was naive," he said. [still paraphrasing]: "A government couldn't rely on people voluntarily paying for it."

     Greenspan new that Miss Rand didn't mean 'sit around and wait for people to donate to the government,' which of course sounds naive. He purposely set up some sort of context-dropping  straw man. He also said something about her love life (not with him, no, never) that might not be true so I won't repeat it.          

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With insecurity on the rise Worldwide because of the imminent homogenization of the World (where First countries become more like Third World Countries), governments competing for profit doesn't sound that bad an idea. Sure some would be tempted by immoral methods but eventually the safest governments would win the most customers.

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Yeah, I agree. I see how government officials waste money because it doesn't matter if they turn a profit. And in fact, many lefties think turning a profit is evil. Profit-seeking would increase efficiciency and innovativeness, and I could go on and on about all the great things (about profit-seeking) that politicians could begin to concern themselves with. Of course the profits should only go to the things a government does in its proper role, and the surplus could be invested.  

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I would argue that the best way to make a national government "safe" is to have the strongest possible currency note. The United States could have taken that road, when President Clinton was making policy regarding the revenue surplus. At one point, he mentioned the national debt, which I believe would have been by far the most moral and sensible pursuit. Profits and earnings are for private businesses. Balances books are for the public sector. In any realistic case, the best way today to "raise money" in the treasury, would be to decrease spending money through government.

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I would argue that the best way to make a national government "safe" is to have the strongest possible currency note. The United States could have taken that road, when President Clinton was making policy regarding the revenue surplus. At one point, he mentioned the national debt, which I believe would have been by far the most moral and sensible pursuit. Profits and earnings are for private businesses. Balances books are for the public sector. In any realistic case, the best way today to "raise money" in the treasury, would be to decrease spending money through government.

That last sentence is an important point, because before the moral taxation can properly be addressed, government should be limited to its proper role.

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That last sentence is an important point, because before the moral taxation can properly be addressed, government should be limited to its proper role.

True. If a Government is its appropriate size taxation becomes indistinguishable from paying utilities or general building maintenance. 

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I remember writing a few detailed posts in other threads, on this. My main suggestion was to make paying taxes a condition of citizenship (where citizenship involves voting rights, getting a passport, being allowed to run for office, and other perks that, when withheld, don't amount to initiation of force).

 

and where citizenship also entails being able to vote on a referendum each time the tax structure is suggested to change

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As long as I'm not forced to pay, meaning I can opt out of citizenship, voting, etc., then it's moral and I like it. It might have a side-effect of creating 2 or more "classes" (for lack of a better word) of citizens, based on their ability to pay for certain privileges, but that's good. Rights are free. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Government, by definition; initiates the use of force to earn revenue. Therefore the concept of government or the state is not compatible whatsoever with the philosophy of Objectivism. Most Objectivists contradict themselves by saying they believe in a minimal government yet advocate one of the most fundamental axioms of the Objectivist philosophy; the non-initiation of force. It doesn't work like that. 

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Government, by definition; initiates the use of force to earn revenue. Therefore the concept of government or the state is not compatible whatsoever with the philosophy of Objectivism. Most Objectivists contradict themselves by saying they believe in a minimal government yet advocate one of the most fundamental axioms of the Objectivist philosophy; the non-initiation of force. It doesn't work like that.

Wrong. A moral government should not initiate force against its citizens. You've accepted that it's okay, but it's not. The US had no income tax for a long time. There are ways government can earn revenue without force.

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Wrong. A moral government should not initiate force against its citizens. You've accepted that it's okay, but it's not. The US had no income tax for a long time. There are ways government can earn revenue without force.

I haven't accepted that it's okay, I don't believe in taxation or government; I believe in a voluntary society based on the non-initiation of force. Show me one way a government can earn revenue without initiating the use of force. Also, what gives the government the right to rule over a stretch of land? Governments don't have property rights, only individual human beings do.

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Government most definitely has a purpose: 1) To protect its borders from threats of invasion; 2) To secure the physical and property rights of its citizens through a code of moral laws; 3) To provide a court of justice to interpret and enforce that code of moral laws. This is clearly expressed in the writings of Ayn Rand. I may have taken liberties with the wording, and the of course there are details she clearly expressed.

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"To be free, a man must be free of his brothers". [AR]

I have not found anything that weakens this argument, that if the majority of citizens do not or cannot recognize the highest value to them of a free society -by willingly (and gladly) funding a minimal government- how could that society come into being in the first place? more, they deserve to lose what they have.

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