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A Public Statement From Stephen Speicher

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• Improper links

No advertisements or spam of any kind will be tolerated, including any posts made solely to advertise your website.

It is a link, but not an improper link. Since it is a real and genuine post, it is the most proper of links. I just think the only way to ensure no one edits you work or puts words in to your mouth is to keep the data on your own computer. I'm not trying to subvert anything here, just suggesting a way the Speichers can get the security they want and still be able to participate.

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It is a link, but not an improper link. Since it is a real and genuine post, it is the most proper of links. I just think the only way to ensure no one edits you work or puts words in to your mouth is to keep the data on your own computer. I'm not trying to subvert anything here, just suggesting a way the Speichers can get the security they want and still be able to participate.

Would you like to have to create your own website every time you wanted to post? How about having to upload it? Then putting in the link... not having access to smilies without creating the image files yourself... not having your posts read as much because people have to click on an external link and break the flow of posts to be heard...

Why should they bend over backwards to help _us_ understand Objectivism better? I can't remember a time any of us taught them something...

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Would you like to have to create your own website every time you wanted to post?  How about having to upload it?  Then putting in the link...  not having access to smilies without creating the image files yourself...  not having your posts read as much because people have to click on an external link and break the flow of posts to be heard...

Why should they bend over backwards to help _us_ understand Objectivism better?  I can't remember a time any of us taught them something...

I agree that a guarantee from GC that posts will not be edited would be ideal, but he has made his decision and we must respect that. The ability of moderators to edit will not be taken away.

Therefore you either take your chances or just send a link...

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Hi RationalCop,

I apologize for getting your nick wrong in my last post.

While the moderators’ workload sounds enormous, the bottom line is that an incredible mind’s posts were edited without his consent or knowledge, and that, apparently, this activity was detected by chance -- not by existing checks and balances. Worse, it was done to a member whose posts carry a lot of weight with a good chunk of the membership.

I think the police analogy isn’t valid when discussing my proposal because I’m not asking to tie the moderator’s hands. He can suspend a post he doesn’t like on the spot. He simply needs to inform the writer of the suspension, list the grievance, and wait for the originator to comply. I’d think/hope that 9 out of 10 cases wouldn’t need to go much beyond that. (Not that it’s any of my business but it would be helpful to know the exact nature of what the moderators are up against. How bad are the violations and how frequently do they occur?)

I see nothing wrong with asking for the courtesy of notification, a chance to explain one’s thinking, and the assurance that the final version of one’s post meets with one’s approval.

If GC can’t handle the appeals load perhaps a second moderator could be asked to mediate a given grievance. I’d even be OK with the first moderator having final say over the appeal. Regardless of how it’s handled, the poster should be notified and should have the right to approve the final version of his post.

With all due respect to all who’ve worked so hard to nurture this site to the great forum that it is today, I have to ask: since when is expediency grounds for affording anyone this sort of say over another’s intellectual output without so much as a notification that a post has been altered?

I thank all who’ve considered my thoughts on this issue.

Since there are many who are far more experienced and involved on this site that I am, I’ll address any comments on this post in private.

Regards,

JohnRgt

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One way to ensure your posts can't be edited, even by GC, is to make them a page on speicher.com and then just post a link in the forum. The moderators can only edit the link, which will break it. In effect you are limiting their powers to deleting.

I actually have no objection to this, though it would be rather...insane.

Edited by GreedyCapitalist
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Hi RationalCop,

I apologize for getting your nick wrong in my last post.

Okay, no problem.

As to the rest, GC can review your suggestion and determine if it's a methodology that fits his vision of how the web site should be managed. I have noted my objections based on my experience here and the issues I see that are involved, so I have no further need to comment on your suggestion at this point.

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Insane :dough: LOL. Links are what the Internet is all about...

What you are suggesting essentially amounts to this: A person is reading a book. Suddenly, the book says turn to page 73. Then when you get to page 73 and read a paragraph, it says to turn back to page 33. Then, you read page 33 and it tells you to turn to another page. No one would buy a book which is authored like this. Why would someone read a forum post which is like this?

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What you are suggesting essentially amounts to this: A person is reading a book. Suddenly, the book says turn to page 73. Then when you get to page 73 and read a paragraph, it says to turn back to page 33. Then, you read page 33 and it tells you to turn to another page.  No one would buy a book which is authored like this. Why would someone read a forum post which is like this?

Well I don't know about Windows, but on Mac if you hold down the Command key when clicking a link it opens in a new window beside the main one.

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What you are suggesting essentially amounts to this: A person is reading a book. Suddenly, the book says turn to page 73. Then when you get to page 73 and read a paragraph, it says to turn back to page 33. Then, you read page 33 and it tells you to turn to another page.  No one would buy a book which is authored like this. Why would someone read a forum post which is like this?

Come on...don't you remember those "Choose Your Own Adventure" books from childhood? "Turn to page 33 if you want to go up the creepy staircase. Turn to page 74 if you want to run away." Weren't they exciting? :dough:

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Many contrary and provocative comments have been made in this thread, and I will make one final statement in the hope of bringing this all to an end. Betsy and I hold no ill will towards the members of this forum. In the nine months or so that we have been posting on this board, we have seen the membership increase substantially, as has the quantity and quality of posts to the forum. The members of this forum are, overwhelmingly, a bright and good-natured bunch, and, as I have said several times in the past, it is a delight to meet so many intelligent and inquisitive young minds.

Nonetheless, Betsy and I will not be regularly posting on OO.net. We have decided, instead, to focus on starting a forum of our own for fans and admirers of Ayn Rand. We think there is room for several quality Objectivist forums. When it is finally ready, we will let you all know.

We wish you all well and hope to meet many of you again, in Cyberspace and elsewhere.

p.s. I am setting up our Forum so that members cannot edit their own posts. Neither can the moderators or administrators. The "Edit" function has been removed. When any posting is deleted by a moderator, that posting is sent to a "pending" forum. The moderator will then PM the poster whose posting was deleted and provide him with a pointer to the post in the "pending" forum, along with an explanation of why the post was deleted. The explanation will be, primarily, a form which is checked indicating the reasons for deleting the post. The original poster can then fix the problem and re-post.

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Nonetheless, Betsy and I will not be regularly posting on OO.net. We have decided, instead, to focus on starting a forum of our own for fans and admirers of Ayn Rand.  We think there is room for several quality Objectivist forums. When it is finally ready, we will let you all know.

This is very good news, and I agree with this excerpt in its entirety!

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By the way,

The current policy is that the content of a post is never edited- other than to fix minor errors. In almost all cases, the post is simply deleted, because it as a whole, violates the forum rules. The only case where a post might be edited is when there are actually two different messages in one post, and the offensive part is deleted and included in a warning – but this is very rarely, if ever done. The forum software is somewhat of a constraint here, because by default, posts are read-only after an hour, and I cannot set an exception for certain posts.

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Well I don't know about Windows, but on Mac if you hold down the Command key when clicking a link it opens in a new window beside the main one.

That's more trouble than most sane people are willing to go to just to read a post. Take this thread for example. A total of 55 users have (so far) posted a total of 189 posts. If every user took your suggestion and started storing posts off site, that would amount to opening new windows 189 times just to read this thread in its entirety. I don't know about everyone else, but if I had to do that, I'd just go over and start posting on another forum.

Come on...don't you remember those "Choose Your Own Adventure" books from childhood? "Turn to page 33 if you want to go up the creepy staircase. Turn to page 74 if you want to run away." Weren't they exciting? :dough:

LOL, I thought I was the only one who remembered those books. They were insanely tedious, weren't they?

Edited to fix quote

Edited by redfarmer
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This whole thread has given me a lot of material for how to deal with moderating and abiding to forum rules and editing one's posts, which I will use in the forum software I myself am creating. I won't reveal anything yet, nor make any promises, but the things that were so lengthily discussed here, will seem trivial when the concept of my forum moderation is completed.

Edit: So, I just wanted to say thanks.

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I am only a young Objectivist, I am almost 22 years of age. I am one of those silent lurkers on this forum, I don't post much but I read a lot of the posts on here. I really respect you and your knowledge Stephen. It is a great loss to see you go.

Thank you for the very kind words, and to those others who replied here and privately.

Could you possibly let me and other like-minded people know as to which forum you will call home next, if you do decide to move to another forum?

Since you asked ... Betsy and I have started our own forum for Ayn Rand fans, Forums.4AynRandFans.com. The forum will open for postings on Friday, February 11, but you can visit, look around, and join the forum right now.

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