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How should a discriminating young man approach/view sex if no one he e

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How should a discriminating young man approach/view sex if no one he encounters shares his values? 

 

I am a 21 year old male that is at a dilemma in my life. I agree with Rand in her belief that sex should be the physical expression of love between two people who admire values in each other. However, I have not yet found a woman who has the values I admire in her and am extremely picky with my partners. Throughout my life I have rejected dozens of offers from girls to be in relationships with them and I really do not think I will find this woman anytime soon. I have raging hormones and it is highly frustrating to get offers from tons of girls (many who are very attractive), but decline due to me not being attracted to their personality. Due to my pickiness I have no sexual experience and I fear that I am losing out on an important aspect of life. What advice would you give me to help my situation?

 
Edited by Stryker_A

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Are you saying you are not attracted to those girls in *any* sense? Or just not attracted enough to justify a long-term relationship? Or something else? To say you are not attracted to their personality doesn't really say you dislike them as a friend. So if you like them as people, you are attracted to that degree, just not necessarily romantically.

 

A second question is if you want to get your "virginity out of the way" (a destructive attitude towards sex I think) or if you genuinely want to experience sex for some good reason.

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Are you saying you are not attracted to those girls in *any* sense? Or just not attracted enough to justify a long-term relationship? Or something else? To say you are not attracted to their personality doesn't really say you dislike them as a friend. So if you like them as people, you are attracted to that degree, just not necessarily romantically.

 

A second question is if you want to get your "virginity out of the way" (a destructive attitude towards sex I think) or if you genuinely want to experience sex for some good reason.

 

1. Just not attracted enough to justify a long-term relationship.

2.  I would like to lose my virginity, but I do not want to lose it just to get it out of the way. I want to experience a meaningful sexual relationship, but I hesitate to do so with the girls I meet because I do not find them good enough(from a shared values point of view). All these years have passed and I still have not found the right kind of woman so I am not sure what to do.

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If you truly haven't found anyone who you are interested in sexually, there's not much to do except to shake your fists at the universe, perhaps change your strategy for how you meet people, and then hope for the best until you happen to meet "The One." But as Eiuol suggested, there have probably been plenty of people who have attracted you on at least a couple levels. Why wouldn't you have sex with those girls?

If you want sex, then you should have sex. That's pretty simple. Try it out and have fun. Let yourself be OK with trying a different attitude and approach than you've given up until now. It's easy to construct rationalistic ideas about sex without any actual experience. With some experience, however, you can begin to validate or invalidate the things about sex which you've concluded so far.

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A company I worked for years ago when I was young required the field engineers, like me, to report to the office every Monday morning. The rest of my time was spent in the field. The guy who occupied the desk behind mine in the office would ask me every Monday morning, "Did you get anything strange over the weekend?" Since I kept my personal life private, my reply to him was always the same: "Yes, I used my left hand."

 

How does this have anything to do with the original post? Well, it is meant to separate sex from meaningful relationships. If you just want to experience sex with a woman, simply pick one up from a local bar and get on with it. The best sex of this type is when she comes over at 10 PM and leaves at about 2 AM.

 

However, my take on the original post is that the poster wants sex to mean something more than just a fleeting feeling in a certain part of the body. If that is the case, then waiting for the "right" person to come along is the only answer. Since we unfortunately live in a period of corrupt philosophy (an irrational view of existence and our place in it), finding the "right" person is no easy task. I personally waited until I was 33 years of age and still made a mistake.

 

So, good luck (Mr. Original Poster) in your search. You're going to need it. Meanwhile, arm yourself with as much as you can learn about the philosophy of Objectivism. 

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Just to provide a counter view, I'm going to throw out there that it is possible to have sex before 33 with "Not The One" and make no mistake doing so.

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Are you making decisions based on what you want, or on standards of others' that you think you should want? If you want or think you should want the experience of sexual pleasure with another to be more broadly based( more broadly based than YOUR own desire ??) , than convince yourself that you are exploring philo with a more eastern bent, tantric exploration. :)

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If this poster is for real, which I highly doubt, stop over thinking life and start experiencing it. You're going to start out awkward and you're going to make mistakes, so make them as early as possible and learn from them so you'll be ready for the big leagues when it really counts.

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I had sex and I wasn't awkward my first time. -_-

 

I think that the issue is attempting to live up to a warped view of relationships purported by Rand. I actually am more attracted to the people that are different than I am. I'd hate to date an intellectual, because life would be so boring. There is only so much I can stand talking about ideas. I like people that bring a different aspect to my life that the intellectual side is missing. But, the person, in essence, has to be good, funny, and makes my life enjoyable (as well as me theirs).

 

But, I'd still ask, because the above may be an unfair response to you: What values are you looking for, specifically? 

Edited by thenelli01

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LOL, at least you think you weren't awkward. But seriously, I think it's more about getting experiemce in the whole romantic relationship than just the act (although that's important too). I was very stupid in love with my first girlfriend and made terrible mistakes. A few relationships later and I was on much firmer footing to make important life decisions around them.

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That's what bothers me most about the "The One" mentality. How do you know it's The One with little or no frame of reference?

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What are the values that you are looking for?

 

I am looking for a graceful, independent, confident, and dignified woman. A woman that will add some value to my life by not conforming to the concepts of most people or the in crowd. It is amazing how difficult it is to find a woman my age that adheres to those principles(even if you find her you might not be physically attracted to her). In today's world so many people are mindless Obama drones that do not think for themselves. Too many women are attention seeking, entitled, narcissistic, and whiny. Women at college devalue themselves by recklessly smoking, using drugs/alcohol, dancing raunchy, partying wildly, having sex commonly without seeing value in that person and doing what feels good in the moment.  I am looking for a woman that thinks because only a thinking woman will add value to my life by giving me something different. Of course not all of the women I come in contact with have all of the negative traits I described. For the most part the women I encounter either have some of these traits, too many of these traits, are people I am indifferent to, or mildly attracted to(but not attracted to enough).

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If you truly haven't found anyone who you are interested in sexually, there's not much to do except to shake your fists at the universe, perhaps change your strategy for how you meet people, and then hope for the best until you happen to meet "The One." But as Eiuol suggested, there have probably been plenty of people who have attracted you on at least a couple levels. Why wouldn't you have sex with those girls?

If you want sex, then you should have sex. That's pretty simple. Try it out and have fun. Let yourself be OK with trying a different attitude and approach than you've given up until now. It's easy to construct rationalistic ideas about sex without any actual experience. With some experience, however, you can begin to validate or invalidate the things about sex which you've concluded so far.

 

The sad part is I do not even intend to meet "The One". I am just looking for a woman that meets my minimum standards and I still cannot find one. Due to my age I am inclined to have sex, but I have cognitive dissonance because to give myself up to a person is a big deal to me(and I would like her to be someone I like). I am stuck between wanting to get laid and feeling bad for giving myself up sexually to a person I do not even like.

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Are you making decisions based on what you want, or on standards of others' that you think you should want? If you want or think you should want the experience of sexual pleasure with another to be more broadly based( more broadly based than YOUR own desire ??) , than convince yourself that you are exploring philo with a more eastern bent, tantric exploration. :)

I am making decisions based off what I want. Could you elaborate a bit more on what else you were saying?

Edited by Stryker_A

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If this poster is for real, which I highly doubt, stop over thinking life and start experiencing it. You're going to start out awkward and you're going to make mistakes, so make them as early as possible and learn from them so you'll be ready for the big leagues when it really counts.

Why the hell would you not think I am for real? There are people who take philosophy very seriously. I do not consider myself to be over-thinking, but I do see some value in what you are saying.I have to start somewhere and if I get more experience I will have a clearer picture of what I want.

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I had sex and I wasn't awkward my first time. -_-

 

I think that the issue is attempting to live up to a warped view of relationships purported by Rand. I actually am more attracted to the people that are different than I am. I'd hate to date an intellectual, because life would be so boring. There is only so much I can stand talking about ideas. I like people that bring a different aspect to my life that the intellectual side is missing. But, the person, in essence, has to be good, funny, and makes my life enjoyable (as well as me theirs).

 

But, I'd still ask, because the above may be an unfair response to you: What values are you looking for, specifically? 

 

This is a very good point. I will take this into consideration.

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That's what bothers me most about the "The One" mentality. How do you know it's The One with little or no frame of reference?

 

I think I know based off of how they appear to me(how they talk,things they do,etc.). Some women are so off the mark for me that I do not consider them at all. However, upon further reflection, I realize that there may be somethings I do not see or do not know I want in a woman. Only by dating women who I see some value in could I further explore that.

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You're only 21. I know that doesn't seem helpful at the moment, but the longer you live, the more people you will interact with and the higher your likelihood of finding someone you like.

I am definitely not recommending that you have anything to do with people you genuinely don't like. There is a chance that almost everyone who is around you is an idiot, such as by being stuck in a narrow college environment. But, if you are consistently finding *no one* attractive over a long period of time, there is also a chance you're cutting people off before you have a chance to find things you like about them.

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I am making decisions based off what I want. Could you elaborate a bit more on what else you were saying?

You seem to be a very thoughtful and intelligent person and given your age its fair for me to assume you probably have the intellectual/emotional maturity to 'handle' sex. I would not recommend 'diving' into sexual relationships to people who do not possess the maturity to be able to appreciate all that those types of relationships entail. You said yourself that you feel you should find someone who demonstrates all the values you are looking for in order to become involved, but then added the physical attraction as a component, so you do see that sexual experiences are multifaceted, yes? I am not saying to take too cavalier an approach to sex, but at the same time thinking you have to wait for Dagny or Dominique incarnate is not worthwhile.

edit to add 'not possess', as in I tried to explain to my son the importance of being mindful of sexual relationships when he was young

Edited by tadmjones

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Due to my age I am inclined to have sex, but I have cognitive dissonance because to give myself up to a person is a big deal to me(and I would like her to be someone I like). I am stuck between wanting to get laid and feeling bad for giving myself up sexually to a person I do not even like.

That makes sense. But do you mean you don't like anyone even as a friend? I mean, do you have friends that are girls who would be open to something sexual? I have no advice to give if you don't like anyone at all, although it is also possible you're being too quick to judge. I'm a bit older than you and in a similar situation, so I at least empathize. If you're doing it all "right" (right attitude, right understanding of yourself, etc) then really all you can do is expand where you're looking. If it really concerns/bothers you, just try it out with someone who is at least kind/understanding/fun, I'd be surprised if you really had 0 options you would be happy with. The worst that happens is you didn't enjoy it, don't you think? I doubt you'd suddenly treat sex as meaningless and reduced in importance if you didn't enjoy it.

 

I generally agree with Rand about sex too, though I wouldn't take her views as suggesting that you shouldn't go and find out for yourself what sex is like first hand. If sex is so important, you certainly want to learn about it first hand. You can still take sex seriously while still exploring it. If you make a mistake, great, you learned something. Plus, the worst the mistake will be is "well, I don't want to do that again!" At best, you'll be happy with the result. And I'd bet things will end up more on the happy end.

 

Keep in mind though, it's not as if your desire for sex would go away. If you do go and have sex once, then what? Worth considering.

Edited by Eiuol

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Two of the points the others have made here are sound ones:

 

- Sex is good if you're both so inclined.  You show an understanding of Rand that is common to newcomers, namely that Objectivism imposes obligations we are duty-bound to obey whether we are so inclined or not.  Rand's tone gives this impression even when her upfront message says otherwise..  You could save yourself a lot of time and grief (not to mention horniness) by listening to your real inclinations and not your sense of duty.  It isn't easy to do at first, but the effort outweighs the cost.

 

- Your claim that you haven't met even one desirable potential partner, when you live in a community of intelligent, hard-working contemporaries, is more than a little hard to believe.

 

This second leads me to suspect that there's more to this story than you've told us, perhaps more than you are aware of yourself.  I sense a strain of fear or self-doubt, rationalized with Objectivist slogans, that you might work through with professional help.

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This second leads me to suspect that there's more to this story than you've told us, perhaps more than you are aware of yourself. I sense a strain of fear or self-doubt, rationalized with Objectivist slogans, that you might work through with professional help.

Not to walk over Reidy's good advice, but if you do have personal hang ups, and if they are of the regular sort (even of the mildly serious sort), it is also possible to work through them by yourself with introspection, reading, outside opinions of people you trust, and the simple passing of time.

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Your "help, women are throwing thrmselves at me" narrative doesn't strike me as true. Maybe you are messing with us for laughs, or maybe you are deluding yourself about what the actual problem is, as others have hinted. Either way, I don't buy it and my B.S. meter is impeccable. I was calling the "Eva" troll out before pretty much anyone and he strung people along for months across multiple forums.

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