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How does one cope w/ the alienation of loved ones?

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I told my brother, whom I admire and has many virtues, that I was an athiest. He then proceded to tell me that he would never speak to me again. Have I acted in my long term interest? Now I have distanced myself from someone who I have loved for the rest of my life. I know I should never betray my values for anyone else, but somehow I feel as I should have just pretended to be a christian for my families sake. <_<

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If he really valued you it wouldn't make a difference. Your family should love you because of your virtues, if they are as positive as one that is a student of O'ism. I was reading a messageboard last night where supposedly "loving" Christians valued God over their family. I think it's part of the sacrifical creed that religion has; that God is more important than family. This may have been what happened here, but I'm not quite sure.

My mother knows that I am not of faith, and she still loves me all the same. She also, like me, was critical of the notion that God is more important than your own flesh and blood. She isn't a practicing Catholic, so that may be the difference in my situation. I don't know how religious your family is.

Generally, I won't be inclined to tell people that I am an atheist; it has a negative connotation in today's culture that you are a "secularist" or a "liberal' and that atheists cannot possibly have morals. If the subject comes up I'll say I was "raised Catholic" because it's ambigious. It's probably not the correct way to go about things, but I don't think I want my grandmother to know that I do not believe in God.

Edit: Spelling

Also to BurgessLau: I assume O'ism is an acceptable substitute for Objectivism?

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O'ism is fine, toolboxj, he doesn't like objectivism because Objectivism and objectivism are two different things.

Onto the topic at hand, I am sorry to hear about your brother, rifleman, but remember who is being the rational one, personal philosophies notwithstanding. I assume you gave your brother your opinion in a rational manner, and yet it was he who flew off the handle. When something like that occurs, it really falls on him to accept a person as they are. Until then, treat him how you always treated him, without any ill will. He may be trying to guilt you back into being a Christian.

As for me, I have yet to tell my parents that I am atheist, pretty much because it really hasn't come up. I have not blurted out of no where "I am an atheist" but I do try to speak of religion as if I don't believe in it. For example, I call the Bible Christian mythology, and I make my preference for Nietzsche and Rand quite prominent. I had a long discussion with my roommate about religion (being that he is a practicing Jehova's Witness) but since that day we have kind of an unspoken rule about staying out of each other's metaphysical lives. Call it a mutual respect for each other's values. I am glad I know him.

[Edited to correct capitalization and spelling of "atheist." - CF]

Edited by Capitalism Forever
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If your brother is worth any consideration at all, he'll come around and accept it eventually.

No man on earth is worth pretending for. And people who are offended by the truth deserve to be constantly offended.

If he doesn't come around, then he truly values his own prejudice above his relationship with you. In which case, I hope you'll be able to rise up to your values and say: Good riddance!

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This is unsurprising, Jesus is quoted as saying he wanted to separtate mothers and children, husabands and wives, brothers and sisters along the dividing line of those who accepted his prochecies and divinity and those who did not. He may just point to that dictate and claim consistentcy. Whatever he does, I think it speaks volumes that he would give up a loving sibling for a nonsensical idea system. He would give up tangible happiness for unseen, unproven, and unreal entities who will reward him when he's dead. If he doesn't change his mind I would say that you have gained valuable knowledge of him that should make the loss you felt initially be alleviated greatly.

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Now I have distanced myself from someone who I have loved for the rest of my life.

Let's be accurate here, you told your brother you are an atheist, which is true. He chose to react irrationally and made the claim that he will never talk to you again (which probably isn't true anyway). You didn't distance yourself from him, he distanced himself from you.

And people who are offended by the truth deserve to be constantly offended.

That is most insightful statement I've heard all week. :D

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This is unsurprising, Jesus is quoted as saying he wanted to separtate mothers and children, husabands and wives, brothers and sisters along the dividing line of those who accepted his prochecies and divinity and those who did not. He may just point to that dictate and claim consistentcy. Whatever he does, I think it speaks volumes that he would give up a loving sibling for a nonsensical idea system. He would give up tangible happiness for unseen, unproven, and unreal entities who will reward him when he's dead. If he doesn't change his mind I would say that you have gained valuable knowledge of him that should make the loss you felt initially be alleviated greatly.

Luke 14:26 - If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:34 - For I am come to set man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

Matthew 10:24 - And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

And people wonder why I am no longer a Christian.

[Edited to correct capitalization. (I am not a fan of Christ either, but it was his NAME...) - CF]

Edited by Capitalism Forever
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and people wonder why I am no longer a christian.

I don't think any Objectivist would wonder about this at all.

WI_Rifleman: let me add my sanction to those others already here. Refusal to compromise your principles can cause tremendous pain in the short term, but that is NOTHING to the harm it WILL cause in the long term.

But, I don't like seeing anyone in pain; I doubt anyone does, so I'll cheerfully join in this big ol' non-sacrificial group hug.

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Are you sure this is what you meant to say?

GAHHH!!! :dough::dough::dough::dough:

*coughs* let me REPHRASE that.

Refusal to compromise your principles can cause tremendous pain in the short term, but that is NOTHING to the harm that COMPROMISING will cause in the long term.

Thank you, Bryan.

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I told my brother, whom I admire and has many virtues, that I was an athiest. He then proceded to tell me that he would never speak to me again. Have I acted in my long term interest? Now I have distanced myself from someone who I have loved for the rest of my life. I know I should never betray my values for anyone else, but somehow I feel as I should have just pretended to be a christian for my families sake. :dough:

No, you did not make a mistake. Just live your life rationally and selfishly. Your brother will attempt to reconcile many of his religious views with your exemplary behavior, especially if your atheism is the only reason he considers you worthy of ostracism. If you are too far apart on the fundamentals of existence, then you'll both come to accept your separation, though your acceptance is far more important than his.

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I don't think any Objectivist would wonder about this at all.

notice that I didn't say that I specifically wonder why I am no longer a Christian (thanks CF.)  But I do have family and friends who think that it is some sort of fad or phase I am going through, others are still in disbelieve.

Indeed, my Catholic grandparents think we've (my parents are also atheists, though not Objectivists) just "lapsed" from the Church. I think the Mormon side of the family will just baptise us after we're dead.

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Indeed, my Catholic grandparents think we've (my parents are also atheists, though not Objectivists) just "lapsed" from the Church.  I think the Mormon side of the family will just baptise us after we're dead.

I think the whole batism after death thing that the mormons do is one of the most disrespectful things you can do to a person's memory. If a man lives his entire life rejecting the irrational notion of a god, how can some zealots baptise him after his death and then claim he was a god-fearing man? It is just disgusting.

Edit because of bad grammar.

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In the end it comes down one opinion that matters the most, and that is your own. I am sure that many of us, myself included, have had to face the same situation that you propose. I have had several friends who are very religious tell me I was wrong for my choice and that I will suffer the consequences of them in the end. My own family lives in denial of my decision, making claims like “your just finding yourself” or as a previous poster has mentioned “its just a phase.” you will receive this treatment for the rest of your life I’m afraid. Not everyone like the truth when it is told to them. Infact most will do what ever they can to avoid it. Don’t try to convince your brother that what you have chosen is right because he might never accept it. The best thing you can do to one day change your brother’s opinion about your choice is to live your life to the best of your ability. Live your life dedicated to your own happiness, your own achievement. Live to be an example.

No one ever said doing the right thing was easy, and the road ahead will be tough, but stick with it and take pride in yourself and you will do just fine.

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I told my brother, whom I admire and has many virtues, that I was an athiest. He then proceded to tell me that he would never speak to me again. Have I acted in my long term interest? Now I have distanced myself from someone who I have loved for the rest of my life. I know I should never betray my values for anyone else, but somehow I feel as I should have just pretended to be a christian for my families sake. :dough:

That must be a really horrible feeling. :nuke: I've been trying to soften the eventual blow with my own parents for the time (at some unknown point in the future) when I choose to get married. While in high school, I attended my cousin's marriage (she's much older than I am.. by about 15 years I think). The weird thing was that my cousin and the groom were technically already married. They had a civil ceremony. My uncle was apparently so disturbed by this fact that he paid for a second wedding to be held in a church. At some point during this vacation, my own father relayed his hopes for me to be married in a church... you know, in that fatherly tone that sounds like, "and if you don't, you'll be disowned".

I hate churches. I find them very disturbing places to be. As such, in addition to being an atheist as well, there's no way I'd ever hold my wedding in one. I know the discussion will come up at some point so I've been trying to ease them into both ideas. I haven't attended church for probably a decade, I've had discussions about the view that one's self should be the biggest motivator in a person's life instead of some constantly-forgiving god, and I've probably also hinted at ideas that I think would be nice for a ceremony (that are obviously lacking the church/religion thing.)

I really don't see this approach, of easing them into these ideas with sort of a step-by-step program as dishonest. Though if asked directly by them tomorrow if I believed in a god I would simply answer no. Perhaps a more gradual approach could be considered for you in the future? It may give your family and friends time to digest smaller bites and allow them the much-needed reflection when one comes into contact with opposing viewpoints.

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