How big of a problem is racism in the USA?

[Eiuol 362]

But for that to be a problem for someone, it would have to be widespread. Having one employer out of twenty discriminate against you isn't a problem. A problem would be having 19 out of 20 do it, or 99 out of 100. Then it would become difficult to find the one who doesn't do it, so you'd have a problem.

Get some stats in here, STAT!

 

Seriously though, until you can back it up, you'd be saying "I don't know if it's a problem or not". I don't know any hiring numbers right now, so I'm refraining from saying if racism is a problem in hiring. If you're only posing the idea, that's fine. But without stats, we can't say "black people perpetrate the most racism" either. There's too much truthiness in this thread.

[Nicky 585]

Get some stats in here, STAT!

 

Seriously though, until you can back it up, you'd be saying "I don't know if it's a problem or not". I don't know any hiring numbers right now, so I'm refraining from saying if racism is a problem in hiring. If you're only posing the idea, that's fine. But without stats, we can't say "black people perpetrate the most racism" either. There's too much truthiness in this thread.

It's a thread asking for people's opinion. If it was a thread asking for stats, I would've responded the way I usually respond to you obnoxiously and fruitlessly demanding my time and energy, over and over again, in every single thread: look up your own stats, I'm not your research assistant. And get a new shtick.

Besides, given the President's skin color, the extraordinary claim here, in demand of urgent backing with stats, would be that most Americans are so racist that they just don't want to give black people jobs.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Nicky

[softwareNerd 677]

Based on the responses here, almost nobody here seems to think that blacks and other minorities have any real problems with inter-racial racism in the USA, and that they are just making things up when they say there is significant bigotry, i.e. they are just making lame exuses when they complain about racism in the USA. Fair assessment of most people's views here?

A false dichotomy. Anyway, since the poll would suggest it's not a fair assessment of people's views here... but misattribution would be par for the course for you.

[CrowEpistemologist 37]

A false dichotomy. Anyway, since the poll would suggest it's not a fair assessment of people's views here... but misattribution would be par for the course for you.

 

Um, what? You obviously harbor some sort of grudge against me personally, but that was straight out of left field...

[aleph_1 49]

Get some stats in here, STAT!

Stats can lie. For instance, student success rates in the classroom may have to do more with departmental policy concerning administrative drops than with teaching modality. With a question such as racism, many confounding factors will likely affect any statistic you cite. My life experience is much more informative to me than many statistics that I have read. I have been falsely accused of racism by many who did not know that my wife is not white and did not know me. Knee jerk claims of racism are common, in my experience, and often false. Such false claims are, by their nature, racist.

[CrowEpistemologist 37]

It's fascinating that most people here haven't provided a straight-forward answer to a fairly simple question (one exception being Harrison, who was crystal clear in his views). Yes, there are many dimensions to the problems of race in the USA, but that's not what I asked. Sure, a simple question might spawn additional questions and discussion, but usually when people do that, they answer the initial question first, and then proceed to expand on other related problems.

 

Is my question invalid somehow?

 

Maybe I can demonstrate what a straight-forward answer to this question looks like:

 

Yes, racism remains a widespread and significant problem for minorities in the USA. Many Americans are irrational and bigoted, and this causes problems for minorities that are unjust and/or immoral.

 

Was that so hard?

[JASKN 240]

Was that so hard?

Wasn't that the reason you created the poll?

[CrowEpistemologist 37]

Wasn't that the reason you created the poll?

 

???

[Nicky 585]

Yes, racism remains a widespread and significant problem for minorities in the USA. Many Americans are irrational and bigoted, and this causes problems for minorities that are unjust and/or immoral.

 

Was that so hard?

No, over-simplifying complex issues is not hard.

[JASKN 240]

It's fascinating that most people here haven't provided a straight-forward answer to a fairly simple question...

Wasn't that the reason you created the poll?

???

The poll is:

...a straight-forward answer to a fairly simple question...

[Eiuol 362]

Stats can lie.

Stats can't lie - they are only interpreted poorly.

 

"My experience is more informative" is equivalent to saying "I feel right".

 

I voted something like "somewhat significant". To put all of it on blacks... that's racist in itself. It's also been given no objectivity. The most "fact" so far are totally lacking, and Harrison literally invented fact that absurd suggestion white people are being lynched in Ferguson. All we've got so far is a fancy narrative of what the truth is - not truth at all.

[JASKN 240]

To put all of it on blacks... that's racist in itself.

Nobody is putting all of anything on anybody. This thread is about broad generalities which are probably impossible to meaningfully narrow down while still being framed under the question, "Is America racist?"

We can look at specific contexts, take in anecdotes, read studies, but the broadest generality is going to be a judgement call, not a provable, definitive conclusion. Within a context, "putting it all on blacks" may be valid, but everyone knows it's only a subset of one of many particular cultures (with the cultures themselves being hard to define) which are all attributed to a skin shade that isn't even objectively measured.

[Nicky 585]

To put all of it on blacks... that's racist in itself.

What exactly do you mean by "all"? If you're referring to the failures and shortcomings of either black individuals or predominantly black communities (high crime rates, poor management of resources, broken families, poor performance in education, high unemployment, high poverty rates, self destructive, irrational cultural trends), I'm perfectly comfortable putting all of that on said individuals and their parents, or on the members of those communities and their cultural, political and religious leaders. I can't imagine who else I should be putting it on.

And if your counter-argument to that is that personal responsibility is racist in itself, then that's even better. Must mean I'm right, since that's not a counter-argument at all.

[Eiuol 362]

@Nicky, from earlier:

At this point, the biggest problem is racism among blacks.

Why did you say "among blacks" first if you seem to later mean "failures and shortcomings of either black individuals or predominantly black communities"? The part I quoted is longer, because it's not just saying "blacks" as a sweeping term, and I'd agree that there are a slew of reasons for issues in many black communities. Your first post had no qualifiers on the term black. I suppose on this forum that it is unfair to say you failed to mention this, so consider this a minor point.
 

they have nowhere near the kind of impact the racism blacks inflict on other blacks has.

How do you know, who measured it, and how did we qualify which is a bigger impact?

 

The rest is aimed at JASKN:

 

Blacks though, now for decades, are still bitching and moaning about not getting a break, getting beat down by the white man, etc. They are the ones perpetuating this, not non-blacks.

How did you determine that it can be generalized to say "blacks" and not just, "I've seen blacks do this"? This sounds too intuitive and "truthy". Any numbers to demonstrate this point?
 

This thread is about broad generalities

Yes, so my point is that the generalities presented so far are non-objective. Well, post #22 is fair, but it isn't a generality anyway. It's fine as an anecdote.

[Harrison Danneskjold 144]

You seem to say "racism is only something minorities do, white people are victims".

Really?  Because I thought that to the question of whether racism is a significant problem in modern America I specifically said that it seems like most white people would be too frightened to explicitly mention such irrationality, let alone act on it, while also mentioning that there's plenty of irrationality being displayed by people of every ethnic group.

 

I do not think that racism is something only minorities do.  The only racism that I can see being explicitly used as a call for action, however, is that which is directed at white people.

 

Whaaaa???? Lynching? No one has been lynched in this manner. You do realize lynching involves killing?

Yes.  I do not presently have the time to properly substantiate that claim; I may do so soon. 

[New Buddha 97]

It's fascinating that most people here haven't provided a straight-forward answer to a fairly simple question....

Since you did not define your term (racism) it is anything but a simple question.

 

As I pointed out in my posts, if you had asked many scientist 100 - 150 years ago they would have told you that Blacks were quantifiably inferior to Whites, both intellectually and morally.  Racism was justified on a pseudo-scientific rationale.  That has, of course, been discredited.

 

So today, I would argue that most Americans equate and/or confuse "racism" with "cultural-ism" - meaning that what they respond negatively to is not the color of another's skin, but rather the culture attributed (rightly or wrongly) to a specific race.

 

In this sense, I would say that "racism" is not much of a problem any more.

Edited September 1, 2014 by New Buddha

[CrowEpistemologist 37]

[...] This thread is about broad generalities which are probably impossible to meaningfully narrow down while still being framed under the question, "Is America racist?"

 

 

Yeah, that's not what I asked, nor what the poll asked. You see my problem here?

[JASKN 240]

Yeah, that's not what I asked, nor what the poll asked. You see my problem here?

I guess it's a good thing we could only vote on what you asked in the poll then? But since this is a discussion board, you got more than what you asked for, lucky you.

[Eiuol 362]

Really?  Because I thought that to the question of whether racism is a significant problem in modern America I specifically said that it seems like most white people would be too frightened to explicitly mention such irrationality, let alone act on it, while also mentioning that there's plenty of irrationality being displayed by people of every ethnic group.

 

I do not think that racism is something only minorities do.  The only racism that I can see being explicitly used as a call for action, however, is that which is directed at white people.

Ah, whites are special, then. Yup, white people are scared, they're a persecuted silent majority. Ethnic groups are the ones who act on it, because white people are scared. Now, if they weren't scared, they might act on it. Except, some live in fear of being lynched today. Racism is a particularly big problem for white people, as they're often living in fear. Before we know it, white people will be too scared to listen to Toby Keith and only hear Lil' Wayne anymore. Blacks and other ethnic groups are scary!

 

 

Harrison, your post is just loaded with problems. It's not grounded at all. I don't see any reasoning behind it. What I wrote is the only way I make sense of what you wrote.

[CrowEpistemologist 37]

I guess it's a good thing we could only vote on what you asked in the poll then? But since this is a discussion board, you got more than what you asked for, lucky you.

 

Yeah, lucky me. I started a thread on a particular subject and you re-interpreted it to mean a different subject so you could then attack a straw man.

[JASKN 240]

Yeah, lucky me. I started a thread on a particular subject and you re-interpreted it to mean a different subject so you could then attack a straw man.

What are you even talking about? First, you ask me if you have another vote for "absolutely insignificant," for which you could have checked your poll to see for yourself. Then, you seem unhappy with just reading your own damn poll's results, which suggests that you want some other un-named "straightforward" answer from users who you are badgering for not answering this question that you haven't yet asked! Jesus.

Not to mention, the poll is linked to a thread for a reason: to *discuss*. Particularly on this forum, it's a waste of time to go around spitting out "answers" to anything without qualifying and explaining them. If you don't want to discuss, don't, and just read your poll results. If you're not happy with your own poll question, make another poll.

[CrowEpistemologist 37]

What are you even talking about? First, you ask me if you have another vote for "absolutely insignificant," for which you could have checked your poll to see for yourself. [...]

 

Actually the poll doesn't have people's names on it...

[JASKN 240]

So, why have the poll at all?

[CrowEpistemologist 37]

Oh I see the problem. Yes, I'm confused. Whereas in the poll lots of people listed "significant problem" and only one person listed "not significant at all", virtually everybody here seems to agree that racism against minorities is not a problem, or "not really" a problem, or not as big a problem as other problems, etc. etc. such that we can safely ignore the problem (so linked in the OP), or a problem made up in moocher's heads, etc. etc.

 

And yes, a discussion. Fine. Maybe start your discussion with your clear answer to the question? Otherwise you sound evasive...

[CrowEpistemologist 37]

So, why have the poll at all?

 

Next time I will check the box that shows everybody's vote. I guess that will make things clearer next time.