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markness

Is it possible to be objectivist in a extremely collectivistic society

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Hi,

 

So i'm getting introduced with objectivism, i started learning about it few months ago. I'm not from the U.S.

I'm from one small contry in Europe which has very collectivist society. 

Individuality basically can't exist. Actually i think that a man can't survive if he is not part of the group. I'm in that period of my life when i don't want to lose my individiuality but society where i'm living is making me lose it on various ways.

I don't want to lose myself just so i can fit in. But also, i feel bad because i can't make mutual understanding with almost anybody.Their minds and feelings are very collectivist. They are negating rationality.

So i'm looking for advice on how to pass those challenges if somebody had similar experience but also if you can recommend me objectivist guide(book,article or similar) or you thoughts on,is it possible to be objectivist in a collectivistic society?

 

Thanks

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Markness,

With the limited information you've provided, it seems you've arrived at a very important discovery in your journey. Indeed, you do not live on an island, isolated from family, co-workers, and community. It may be very difficult at times pursuing life as an individual, but you may find it more difficult if you are concerned with "fitting in." The Objectivist lives life for the sake of living his/her own life, for the joy of achievement, and the pursuit of virtues. If others perceive this guiding direction in your life as "undesirable," ask yourself: "Are these people truly my friends?" Individuality certainly can, and does, exist. You must decide what sort of individual you are, and become that individual.

Have you read Anthem? Personally, I found L. Peikoff's Objectivism: the Philosophy of Ayn Rand very helpful in Chapter 8, the section on virtue. These two articles are terrific food for thought. And always remember: Your mind is your primary tool for survival.

Edited by Repairman

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It's difficult indeed.It's not about fitting in, the situation is worst because you need to be part of the group so you can survive, and play their "game". I don't like to be alone and it's them which are not showing respect for individiuality.

But i will do my best.Actually considering to move the another country.

 

I will try to get that book.

 

Thanks a lot for the answer.

Regards.

Edited by markness

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Markness,

 

You remarked “I think that a man can’t survive if he is not part of the group.” On the material level, we are all certainly surviving much better as part of our societies, interacting with others electronically and in person, than we would be in an area without other people. On the psychological level, we need (at least everyone I’ve known needs) interaction with other humans, even when we are adult.

 

Individuality within genuine fellowship is possible here in America and, I'm pretty sure, even in more collectivist countries of Europe, where there is freedom of movement and association. If you are subject to a mandatory period of national service, such as the military draft, then yes, for that period, individuality is more seriously compromised.

 

I’d be careful in supposing the enormous numbers of people who disagree with you over such things as altruism, self-reliance, taxation, government enterprises, and supremacy of the society over the individual, do not respect individuality at all and are entirely set against rationality. Listen to all they say and consider all they do.

 

It can be painful to have one frustrating discussion after another with acquaintances all around you. Nietzsche wrote of that pain in the late nineteenth century. He was of a personality who liked to have lively, real-thinking discussions with people he met, but usually it was hopeless. It was like they were coming from different planets.

 

You may find it enjoyable to try to contact other people in your area who have some friendly interest in Ayn Rand’s ideas. You might have to put out a personal ad saying you are in search of making the acquaintance of people with that interest. If they are just too rare there, that would be one more incentive to change countries.

 

I don’t know how old you are, but from nineteen on I had a lover, and it was an age of two against the world, and we had each other as sanctuary. Here’s hoping.

 

(I’m sorry if my writing is hard to understand.)

 

Stephen

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I would reccomend reading The Fountainhead. Loneliness may be unpleasant, but it's far from the worst thing that can happen to you. As long as some values are possible to you, it's possible to be an Objectivist and in a collectivistic society, it's actually an even greater necessity if you don't want to end up like Peter Keating.

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Markness,

 

You remarked “I think that a man can’t survive if he is not part of the group.” On the material level, we are all certainly surviving much better as part of our societies, interacting with others electronically and in person, than we would be in an area without other people. On the psychological level, we need (at least everyone I’ve known needs) interaction with other humans, even when we are adult.

 

Individuality within genuine fellowship is possible here in America and, I'm pretty sure, even in more collectivist countries of Europe, where there is freedom of movement and association. If you are subject to a mandatory period of national service, such as the military draft, then yes, for that period, individuality is more seriously compromised.

 

I’d be careful in supposing the enormous numbers of people who disagree with you over such things as altruism, self-reliance, taxation, government enterprises, and supremacy of the society over the individual, do not respect individuality at all and are entirely set against rationality. Listen to all they say and consider all they do.

 

It can be painful to have one frustrating discussion after another with acquaintances all around you. Nietzsche wrote of that pain in the late nineteenth century. He was of a personality who liked to have lively, real-thinking discussions with people he met, but usually it was hopeless. It was like they were coming from different planets.

 

You may find it enjoyable to try to contact other people in your area who have some friendly interest in Ayn Rand’s ideas. You might have to put out a personal ad saying you are in search of making the acquaintance of people with that interest. If they are just too rare there, that would be one more incentive to change countries.

 

I don’t know how old you are, but from nineteen on I had a lover, and it was an age of two against the world, and we had each other as sanctuary. Here’s hoping.

 

(I’m sorry if my writing is hard to understand.)

 

Stephen

 

Thanks for the answer Stephen i understand you perfectly. I didn't write details, but the thing is when i say "survive" i mean to live decent on my own terms.The problems is, most of the jobs in my country are a jobs created by the government, so basically i can't speak anything against their system or i will lose my job or have some other bad treatment. So i have to fake relationships, lie that is "all good",etc. support their pathetic system, just so i can earn the money. Other option is to find another job or start my own business.

Edited by markness

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I would reccomend reading The Fountainhead. Loneliness may be unpleasant, but it's far from the worst thing that can happen to you. As long as some values are possible to you, it's possible to be an Objectivist and in a collectivistic society, it's actually an even greater necessity if you don't want to end up like Peter Keating.

Thanks i just got The Fountainhead few days ago.Can't wait to read it.

I appreciate your answer.Regards.

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