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I know little about the issue, but from what I've read so far this morning, it seems he US is going to both lift sanctions against Iran and allow them to continue synthesizing nuclear material at a slower rate as long as they promis to use it only for peaceful purposes. That, to me, sounds very bad.

Edited by happiness

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By releasing the $100 Billion that has been frozen, we are in effect paying for their entire nuclear program. They get nukes whenever they want and europeans get a lot of lucrative arms deals. Is the world safer because of this?

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I have not read the deal, but does one have to read it to know it is the most recent concrete expression of the ideas contained in pragmatist philosophy?

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I'd never thought I'd see the day an American President would willfully surrender to the enemy! This day will be remembered when the first A-Bomb hits Isreal. This is the beginning of the end of the American experiment! I'm glad I will not be alive when you youngsters see the Stars ans Stripes lowered for the last time. 

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I'd never thought I'd see the day an American President would willfully surrender to the enemy! This day will be remembered when the first A-Bomb hits Israel.

While this deal accomplishes nothing (except make it even easier for Iran to acquire nukes, by lifting the sanctions), it doesn't mean A-Bombs will hit Israel.

 

For one, Israel has an air force. A good one, perfectly capable of destroying most of Iran's nuclear industry. And they don't need anyone's permission to do that (well they probably need Saudi permission, but they have that).

 

Second, Israel is a very potent nuclear power already, one that Iran can't hope to match in the next few decades. Israel doesn't have A-Bombs, they have hydrogen bombs. Two hundred of them, with an air force and long range missiles to drop them anywhere, anytime.

Edited by Nicky

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Thank you, of course I know all this. Any attack by Iran on Isreal would immediately end Iran's Revolution "forever"! My frustation is the dictatorial way inwhich Pres. Obama planned this deal. The two houses will debate but they don't have the votes to override. I am a long time advocate of Objectivism but I believe ( and hate to admit ) that the struggle is over and we lost. No shame in the fight. It was a good one-but we still lost. For me, being at the age I am (65) I am glad I will not see the day when the United States will dissolve into chaos. Funny, Ayn Rand predicted the fall of the American Empire with something better being created in it's wake. That's fine. That's fiction. This is reality and the reality is there are too many people with too many problems here, The best that can happen to this country is for us  to turn into a third world country to survive. We will become totality dependant on help from Eurasia, and will have to watch as a foreign police force inhabit our cities. I hope that the American people ( me being one ) will man the barricades if that ever happens to defend our liberty ( I know us old timers would ) but I have no faith in the American Spirit anymore-collectivism has won-and that's that! Again, I will not live to see America fall-but you guys will. Liberty Forever, and God Once Blessed America!

Edited by Collectivist

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Collectivist,

 

Hasn't the collectivist nature of people in the United States been worse before? Wasn't it worse in the 1930's? A significant number of people in the US supported Mussolini and many others supported Stalin. As pointed out above, Bill Clinton was responsible for letting North Korea get nukes. Harry Truman's devotion to the United Nations prevented any sort of "victory" in Korea and Eisenhower went along. Same goes for LBJ in Vietnam. It seems to me that the lesson here is that negotiations and entanglements together with international partners precludes attainment of national interests. This can be seen in Bush 41's failure to fully accomplish national goals in the first gulf war, deferring the inspection of WMD sites till later and to UN inspectors. The failure to finish the job was due to the squeemishness of "coalition partners". Seventeen UN resolutions later Bush 43 invaded Iraq together with a "coalition".

 

I am hopeful that secure communications will enable free peoples to associate at a level beyond governmental interference. These "super" men will compel governments to limit their roles to a more appropriate and tolerable level. The new Silk Road may have been a first glimmer of an evolution beyond the nation state. My "faith" may be misplaced.

 

This agreement (not a treaty) with Iran is yet another example of human failure to learn the lessons of history. Obama may think that he is charting a new course but in reality it is the same ol' same ol'.

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Yes aleph

Jefferson would be "screaming for revolution" now due to the incompetene of our leaders for the last 75 years! You are also right about the 20's & 30's ( stupidity seems to be universal) But I feel this is different. I can't pin it down but it seems like we as Americans are becoming more suicidial as time moves on,we are (the governement) determined to destory ourselves one way or another. Tragic indeed.

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Yes aleph

Jefferson would be "screaming for revolution" now due to the incompetene of our leaders for the last 75 years! You are also right about the 20's & 30's ( stupidity seems to be universal) But I feel this is different. I can't pin it down but it seems like we as Americans are becoming more suicidial as time moves on,we are (the governement) determined to destory ourselves one way or another. Tragic indeed.

 

That's because the 30's had the beginning of a welfare government but a generation of still ethically fairly independent actors who took responsibility for their lives.  Today we have an entrenched welfare state with the socialist/fascist directions questionably looming large while an entrenched generation who are eschew moral thinking while being dependent on others.  This is a generalization of course but still trending.  

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