British European Union referendum

[softwareNerd]

My view from many thousand feet, and lacking familiarity with the ground is a follows:

For Brexit: Britain in the EU probably can give its inhabitants some more rights that the EU would deny. However, I cannot see any big areas here. On its own steam, Britain was a pretty socialist-leaning country prior to Thatcher, nobody pushed the NHS on them. Their free-speech laws have become pretty atrocious. So, any extra freedoms are probably not worth it.

For STAYING: Being a member of the EU free-trade area allows for more free trade than would be possible under a free-trade agreement between Britain and the EU. It also lowers costs, compared to the alternative. 

On those terms alone, the weight seems to weigh slightly toward staying. Add the complexities of the transition, and staying makes even more sense.

Then, you can throw in one more factor: the free movement of people. It seems to me that this immigration issue can be the only prima-facie plausible argument for leaving. As far as I know, the vast majority of people coming to Britain come to work, not to milk its welfare system. If this is true, then even the anti-welfare argument fails.

[Nicky]

Oh wow, Britain is definitely showing those awful undemocratic European bureaucrats what democracy really is about: the new PM of Great Britain is not only unelected, she actually lost the most important election in modern British history: she was in the "remain" camp.

Way to have a representative government, Britain. Good to see the fight for independence is paying off.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Nicky

[Nicky]

On 6/11/2016 at 3:30 AM, softwareNerd said:

 As far as I know, the vast majority of people coming to Britain come to work, not to milk its welfare system.

86% of them, to be exact...I don't know what percentage of natives are employed, but I'm pretty sure it's not 86%.

[softwareNerd]

1 hour ago, Nicky said:

86% of them, to be exact...I don't know what percentage of natives are employed, but I'm pretty sure it's not 86%.

Yeah, it takes a certain unwillingness to stick with the default inertial option in one's own country. In theory, it might seem easy enough to get on a plane, head to Britain, and get welfare there; but, that's not the psychology of most people who can work, but who stay on welfare in their home country. 

For a native/resident population, 86% employed would be very high, mainly because of all the oldies. Immigrants generally make a country younger.

[If only Japan would learn this. They've shuttered 500 schools each year for the last few years and are projected to have a 30% smaller population by 2060, with a high proportion of retired folk.]
[Like AGW, protectionism, monetary fine-tuning, and all the other yarns ... ... the yarn of over-population being a problem just does not go away. People continue to believe the opposite of the truth, in the face of decades of evidence.]